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What movies make you emotional or cry by their craftmanship?


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#161 Maurizio

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 08:52 AM


This is for me a prime example of a director's pretentiousness. Kubrick's 2001 (with which someone made comparisons) still beats this to a pulp.

Care to elaborate?


Sorry, I didn't mean to slash the movie with harsh words, it was just a quick comment. Well, for me this film is the ultimate mixed bag: it's surely a powerful, non-conventional movie. I liked a lot several parts, while others were annoying to the point of being intolerable. Malick is a too programmatic director for my tastes, he builds the movie around several philosophic pillars and then works around them with a narrative that sometimes takes too much time to be really appreciated (at the umpteenth shot of trees shaken by the wind I was almost leaving the theater). The creation sequence is an example of his extreme self-complacency. I can understand where Malick was coming from (linking the story of a family to the huge mystery of the universe as to depict the extremely frail nature of the human kind), but in the end it's just a show-off. Ok, he takes the stylistic road of the "visual poem", but sometimes I had more the feeling of a Discovery Channel documentary.

The comparisons with Kubrick's 2001 (esp. the stargate sequence) were inevitable, but the movies couldn't be more different. Malick is doing a Philosophy treatise through the language of the visual poem, while Kubrick tells the story of the ultimate Mythical Journey.
"It's still baffling to me. I sit down with a pencil and a piece of paper and do my best... The remarkable thing is that my music is heard by billions of people." --John Williams

"Let me say, however, there is no "next" John Williams. Sadly, he is unique--- a figure who simultaneously embodies and transcends the music of all the masters of film music who preceded him (much like Brahms and Wagner of the Romantic era). He comes from a time when the craft of music in film was still one of the ear, heart and mind. Today, sadly, the craft is largely technical. Most composers do not conceive their music "inwardly" but rather at the computer--- and with rather limited skills, musically, at that. The inner spirit knows no boundaries--- our plastic abilities, sadly, do. John is a man of spirit, heart, intellect and soaring music." -- Conrad Pope about John Williams

#162 Alexcremers

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 02:48 PM

Believe it or not, Maurizio, it's the Discovery Channel aspect of Tree Of Life that I found the most mesmerizing and that I loved the most. I wished the whole movie was more like that. I admit, I had a problem with the dialogue of the family scenes. Because the score was mixed so loud and because of the dialect, I couldn't hear or understand what they were saying, I kid you not.
Pictures, visual images, are far better to achieve that end than any words, particularly now, when the world has lost all mystery and magic and speech has become mere chatter, empty of meaning - Andrei Tarkovsky

#163 KK.

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 02:53 PM

I had the same issue Alex. The music is loud and the dialogue is terribly quiet. I get it, you're trying to poetic by having everyone whisper their lines, but I can't hear a damn thing! It took me a while to understand what was being said. The dialogue seriously should have been mixed louder.

#164 BloodBoal

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 02:56 PM

It's just Malick malicious technique to hide the fact that his dialogues suck big time.

#165 Alexcremers

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 02:57 PM

I'm glad I'm not alone.
Pictures, visual images, are far better to achieve that end than any words, particularly now, when the world has lost all mystery and magic and speech has become mere chatter, empty of meaning - Andrei Tarkovsky

#166 Joey

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 02:57 PM

you guys think you are such mixing specialists perhaps you should be working in the movies...
OH God, Joe is posting again, someone hand me my pills!

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#167 BloodBoal

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 02:58 PM

Perhaps they are...

#168 Joey

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 03:00 PM

No, they are not. Wannabee's yes, actual no.
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"You're not John Conner, I saw you die, said Kyle". "I was only injured, replied John". "No, your injuries were too severe, you died. Look at you, where are your injuries? You're, you're a Terminator." "Kyle, its still me, yes my body was beyond repair, but my essence is here." He points to his head. "No John". Kyle raised his pulse rifle and aimed it at John but before he could fire, John fired first. Knocked to the ground Kyle looked up at the Terminator in the form of the man he once idolized. All hope was lost. "If you kill me how will you ever be born?" "Thats a good question Kyle, all this time we've focus on Sarah, on John, when had we known the it was you we should have targeted all along." John pointed his rifle at Kyle's face. "The resistance is finished, the battle is won. We the machines are the victors, salvation is ours." Kyle never heard the second shot.

#169 Alexcremers

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 03:02 PM

Joey championing a Malick film ... has hell frozen over?
Pictures, visual images, are far better to achieve that end than any words, particularly now, when the world has lost all mystery and magic and speech has become mere chatter, empty of meaning - Andrei Tarkovsky

#170 Joey

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 03:10 PM

no I'm not champion a malick film. I like Badlands, but I don't see the love this director gets. He's like some obscure author who thinks of himself as some literary existentialist who produces a work every 12 years or so.

What I was referring to is mostly KM's but other posters criticizing the mix in the films as if they know better. for once Alex I was not criticizing you.
OH God, Joe is posting again, someone hand me my pills!

"You're not John Conner, I saw you die, said Kyle". "I was only injured, replied John". "No, your injuries were too severe, you died. Look at you, where are your injuries? You're, you're a Terminator." "Kyle, its still me, yes my body was beyond repair, but my essence is here." He points to his head. "No John". Kyle raised his pulse rifle and aimed it at John but before he could fire, John fired first. Knocked to the ground Kyle looked up at the Terminator in the form of the man he once idolized. All hope was lost. "If you kill me how will you ever be born?" "Thats a good question Kyle, all this time we've focus on Sarah, on John, when had we known the it was you we should have targeted all along." John pointed his rifle at Kyle's face. "The resistance is finished, the battle is won. We the machines are the victors, salvation is ours." Kyle never heard the second shot.

#171 crocodile

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 03:12 PM

Oh btw The Tree of Life would be that kind of film for me. It's absolutely stunning technically. I was in awe when I first saw it. More of an experience than a film.

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From a storytelling point of view, from a directing point of view, there is one thing I associate with what he does, which is calm. There is such an inherent calm and inherent trust of the one powerful image, that he makes me embarrassed with my own work, in terms of how many different shots, how many different sound effects, how many different things we’ll throw at an audience to make an impression. But with Kubrick, there is such a great trust of the one correct image to calmly explain something to audience. There can be some slowness to the editing. There’s nothing frenetic about it. It’s very simple. There’s a trust in simple storytelling and simple image making that actually takes massive confidence to try and emulate. - Christopher Nolan

#172 KK.

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 06:05 PM

I never said I was a mixing expert, it's just the dialogue was super quiet and I saw the film with a friend who felt the same way ;)

#173 Chaac

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 06:07 PM

you guys think you are such mixing specialists perhaps you should be working in the movies...


I don't see why one would have to be a specialist in the field to be able to dislike something.

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#174 Wojo

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 06:10 PM

It's to the point that my hearing sucks so bad in theaters that I end up waiting to see movies at home so I can either turn on the CC or use headphones.

@Wojo: stop being facetious.


#175 Quint

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 06:14 PM


you guys think you are such mixing specialists perhaps you should be working in the movies...


I don't see why one would have to be a specialist in the field to be able to dislike something.


There's disliking something for valid, thoughtful reasons and there's disliking something for selfish, anal reasons.

#176 Wojo

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 06:18 PM



you guys think you are such mixing specialists perhaps you should be working in the movies...


I don't see why one would have to be a specialist in the field to be able to dislike something.


There's disliking something for valid, thoughtful reasons and there's disliking something for selfish, anal reasons.


What about liking something for selfish, anal reasons?

@Wojo: stop being facetious.


#177 Jason LeBlanc

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 06:19 PM

What about liking anal for selfish reasons?
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#178 Quint

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 06:25 PM

LOL

#179 Maurizio

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 06:30 PM

Believe it or not, Maurizio, it's the Discovery Channel aspect of Tree Of Life that I found the most mesmerizing and that I loved the most. I wished the whole movie was more like that.


Then you MUST see Baraka, Alex (if you haven't already), possibly on a big screen.

I'm all for non-narrative, unconventional film experiences (I love Koyaanisqatsi), but Malick's attempt is too much artificial and programmatic for my taste, also because it's submerged by all the other heavy stuff the film deals with. I admit that I got goosebumps during the "Lachrymosa" segment, but that was mainly because of the power of the music itself associated with astronomy stock footage. For me, nothing will probably never beat the truly mesmerizing experience of seeing Baraka in 70mm. That is a great example of an unusual, powerful film experience (http://www.spiritofbaraka.com/baraka)
"It's still baffling to me. I sit down with a pencil and a piece of paper and do my best... The remarkable thing is that my music is heard by billions of people." --John Williams

"Let me say, however, there is no "next" John Williams. Sadly, he is unique--- a figure who simultaneously embodies and transcends the music of all the masters of film music who preceded him (much like Brahms and Wagner of the Romantic era). He comes from a time when the craft of music in film was still one of the ear, heart and mind. Today, sadly, the craft is largely technical. Most composers do not conceive their music "inwardly" but rather at the computer--- and with rather limited skills, musically, at that. The inner spirit knows no boundaries--- our plastic abilities, sadly, do. John is a man of spirit, heart, intellect and soaring music." -- Conrad Pope about John Williams

#180 Quint

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 06:40 PM

And only 96mins in length? I'm gonna watch it tonight. Cheers for the tip.

#181 mrbellamy

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 06:41 PM



This is for me a prime example of a director's pretentiousness. Kubrick's 2001 (with which someone made comparisons) still beats this to a pulp.

Care to elaborate?


Sorry, I didn't mean to slash the movie with harsh words, it was just a quick comment. Well, for me this film is the ultimate mixed bag: it's surely a powerful, non-conventional movie. I liked a lot several parts, while others were annoying to the point of being intolerable. Malick is a too programmatic director for my tastes, he builds the movie around several philosophic pillars and then works around them with a narrative that sometimes takes too much time to be really appreciated (at the umpteenth shot of trees shaken by the wind I was almost leaving the theater). The creation sequence is an example of his extreme self-complacency. I can understand where Malick was coming from (linking the story of a family to the huge mystery of the universe as to depict the extremely frail nature of the human kind), but in the end it's just a show-off. Ok, he takes the stylistic road of the "visual poem", but sometimes I had more the feeling of a Discovery Channel documentary.

The comparisons with Kubrick's 2001 (esp. the stargate sequence) were inevitable, but the movies couldn't be more different. Malick is doing a Philosophy treatise through the language of the visual poem, while Kubrick tells the story of the ultimate Mythical Journey.


I'm with you, Maurizio. I appreciate great beauty and poetry in film, but I found the creation aspects to be too abstract, heavy-handed, and loosely tied to what was going on with the O'Briens to really be moved by it. Granted, I've only seen the film once, almost a year ago, but my impression was that somewhere in there was a simple, sweet 90-minute impressionistic film about a Texas family that would have been a more powerful experience for me. I found the sequence showing the birth and growth of the children to be incredibly beautiful and far more mesmerizing, for example. I just don't think Malick is very profound or interesting as a metaphysician, and since The Thin Red Line, I've found that he lets that stuff get in the way of the human component, rather than enhance it.

#182 Chaac

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 06:48 PM

I have to see Baraka. And the others by Fricke. Also Samsara from last year!


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#183 Koray Savas

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 07:31 PM



This is for me a prime example of a director's pretentiousness. Kubrick's 2001 (with which someone made comparisons) still beats this to a pulp.

Care to elaborate?


Sorry, I didn't mean to slash the movie with harsh words, it was just a quick comment. Well, for me this film is the ultimate mixed bag: it's surely a powerful, non-conventional movie. I liked a lot several parts, while others were annoying to the point of being intolerable. Malick is a too programmatic director for my tastes, he builds the movie around several philosophic pillars and then works around them with a narrative that sometimes takes too much time to be really appreciated (at the umpteenth shot of trees shaken by the wind I was almost leaving the theater). The creation sequence is an example of his extreme self-complacency. I can understand where Malick was coming from (linking the story of a family to the huge mystery of the universe as to depict the extremely frail nature of the human kind), but in the end it's just a show-off. Ok, he takes the stylistic road of the "visual poem", but sometimes I had more the feeling of a Discovery Channel documentary.

The comparisons with Kubrick's 2001 (esp. the stargate sequence) were inevitable, but the movies couldn't be more different. Malick is doing a Philosophy treatise through the language of the visual poem, while Kubrick tells the story of the ultimate Mythical Journey.

I agree with your comparison to 2001, they're both very different films. However, I feel that The Tree Of Life is the 2001 of the current generation in how it's so radically different and challenging, and not solely because it deals with creation.

But back to the main body of your reply, I still don't see how Malick's method of storytelling is complacent. You say the creation scene is an example, but how is it a show off? Malick's films delve deep into human consciousness and philosophy, no question, but he also lets his films breathe like no one else. Leone and Kubrick did it, albeit in a much different fashion that defined their styles.

I'm with you, Maurizio. I appreciate great beauty and poetry in film, but I found the creation aspects to be too abstract, heavy-handed, and loosely tied to what was going on with the O'Briens to really be moved by it. Granted, I've only seen the film once, almost a year ago, but my impression was that somewhere in there was a simple, sweet 90-minute impressionistic film about a Texas family that would have been a more powerful experience for me. I found the sequence showing the birth and growth of the children to be incredibly beautiful and far more mesmerizing, for example. I just don't think Malick is very profound or interesting as a metaphysician, and since The Thin Red Line, I've found that he lets that stuff get in the way of the human component, rather than enhance it.

There's your problem. The creation and universe scenes are anything but loosely tied. They are a part of the fabric of Malick's story, which is far from simple. This film cannot be properly judged on a single viewing. Look at how many people that hated 2001 only to change their minds after seeing it again. When I saw this film in the theater, I was enthralled but confused. I didn't understand everything that I was seeing, because we as an audience naturally try to grasp on to a cohesive narrative, which The Tree Of Life does not have. At first I didn't understand the ending or how the creation scenes directly related to the family scenes. When you watch it again, or rather if, give in to Malick's demands. He's a very demanding director that is most certainly not for everyone. Turn it up loud as the Blu will instruct you to (I honestly have no problem comprehending Malick's dialogue or his actors' performances), and give in. There is a wealth of visual parallel structure between the universe and this Texas family; and a reason why there's dialogue during the creation, but it seems like a lot of you didn't even hear it.

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#184 KK.

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 07:53 PM


I'm with you, Maurizio. I appreciate great beauty and poetry in film, but I found the creation aspects to be too abstract, heavy-handed, and loosely tied to what was going on with the O'Briens to really be moved by it. Granted, I've only seen the film once, almost a year ago, but my impression was that somewhere in there was a simple, sweet 90-minute impressionistic film about a Texas family that would have been a more powerful experience for me. I found the sequence showing the birth and growth of the children to be incredibly beautiful and far more mesmerizing, for example. I just don't think Malick is very profound or interesting as a metaphysician, and since The Thin Red Line, I've found that he lets that stuff get in the way of the human component, rather than enhance it.

There's your problem. The creation and universe scenes are anything but loosely tied. They are a part of the fabric of Malick's story, which is far from simple. This film cannot be properly judged on a single viewing. Look at how many people that hated 2001 only to change their minds after seeing it again. When I saw this film in the theater, I was enthralled but confused. I didn't understand everything that I was seeing, because we as an audience naturally try to grasp on to a cohesive narrative, which The Tree Of Life does not have. At first I didn't understand the ending or how the creation scenes directly related to the family scenes. When you watch it again, or rather if, give in to Malick's demands. He's a very demanding director that is most certainly not for everyone. Turn it up loud as the Blu will instruct you to (I honestly have no problem comprehending Malick's dialogue or his actors' performances), and give in. There is a wealth of visual parallel structure between the universe and this Texas family; and a reason why there's dialogue during the creation, but it seems like a lot of you didn't even hear it.


Its barely audible Koray, its why the film was rather confusing when I first watched it. Later, I amped up the volume on my computer at home and I had an easier time putting the pieces together. But as you said, The Tree of Life is a film that deserves multiple viewings to fully grasp.

#185 Chaac

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 07:57 PM

There were moments when the film had me really tired, completely unlike Malick's previous two films.

And I found Sean Penn's part to be quite uninteresting. I liked the universe part, the montages, the part with the stairs at the end, maybe something else.

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#186 Koray Savas

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 08:25 PM

So pretty much everything without dialogue?

Here's a nice short featurette about Malick with Nolan and Fincher. I particularly agree with what Nolan says.

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#187 mrbellamy

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 10:51 PM


I'm with you, Maurizio. I appreciate great beauty and poetry in film, but I found the creation aspects to be too abstract, heavy-handed, and loosely tied to what was going on with the O'Briens to really be moved by it. Granted, I've only seen the film once, almost a year ago, but my impression was that somewhere in there was a simple, sweet 90-minute impressionistic film about a Texas family that would have been a more powerful experience for me. I found the sequence showing the birth and growth of the children to be incredibly beautiful and far more mesmerizing, for example. I just don't think Malick is very profound or interesting as a metaphysician, and since The Thin Red Line, I've found that he lets that stuff get in the way of the human component, rather than enhance it.

There's your problem. The creation and universe scenes are anything but loosely tied. They are a part of the fabric of Malick's story, which is far from simple. This film cannot be properly judged on a single viewing. Look at how many people that hated 2001 only to change their minds after seeing it again. When I saw this film in the theater, I was enthralled but confused. I didn't understand everything that I was seeing, because we as an audience naturally try to grasp on to a cohesive narrative, which The Tree Of Life does not have. At first I didn't understand the ending or how the creation scenes directly related to the family scenes. When you watch it again, or rather if, give in to Malick's demands. He's a very demanding director that is most certainly not for everyone. Turn it up loud as the Blu will instruct you to (I honestly have no problem comprehending Malick's dialogue or his actors' performances), and give in. There is a wealth of visual parallel structure between the universe and this Texas family; and a reason why there's dialogue during the creation, but it seems like a lot of you didn't even hear it.


It's definitely a film I'd like to revisit eventually. Don't misunderstand, it's not that I felt the movie needed a narrative. I just felt like most of what I was hearing were little more than vague truisms. "The only way to be happy is love" or "Nature pleases itself, love smiles through all things". I can't recall anything that really caused me to reflect like the great cinematic explorers of spirituality, the Dreyers and Bergmans and Bressons. When I say I would have preferred a 90-minute film about the O'Briens, I just mean that I felt Malick did a much better job raising questions about the "down here", rather than the "out there", and there's a fine line between demanding and muddled. I'd love for another viewing to change my mind about that, though.

#188 Chaac

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 11:01 PM

If the 90 minute film about the O'Briens meant having Voyage of Time done and released I'd be all for it.

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#189 Mr Big

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 03:46 AM

Schindler's List
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#190 Alexcremers

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 07:12 AM

I agree with your comparison to 2001, they're both very different films. However, I feel that The Tree Of Life is the 2001 of the current generation in how it's so radically different and challenging, and not solely because it deals with creation.


No, no, the new generation thinks that Enter The Void is the new 2001: ASO!

If the 90 minute film about the O'Briens meant having Voyage of Time done and released I'd be all for it.


I don't get it. As it was, the family drama in Tree Of Life was nothing new nor that special. Like Koray says, putting it up against creation and its creator (!) is what differentiates this film with other family dramas.

Turn it up loud as the Blu will instruct you to (I honestly have no problem comprehending Malick's dialogue or his actors' performances), and give in. There is a wealth of visual parallel structure between the universe and this Texas family; and a reason why there's dialogue during the creation, but it seems like a lot of you didn't even hear it.


How loud is that?! How shall we measure it, oh Lord? No, really, could it be that the stereo channel mix is different to the 5.1 surround mix? It watched it loud but in hi-fi stereo.
Pictures, visual images, are far better to achieve that end than any words, particularly now, when the world has lost all mystery and magic and speech has become mere chatter, empty of meaning - Andrei Tarkovsky

#191 Richard

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 10:29 AM

I was honoured (and I do mean honoured) to see a 70mm print of "2001" in London, a few years ago. The last shot of the Starchild had me shedding a few tears, I can tell you. It's pure, unadulterated cinema.

#192 Stefancos

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 10:32 AM

I would kill a kitten to have an opportunity to see that film on the big screen.

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#193 Chaac

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 04:47 PM


If the 90 minute film about the O'Briens meant having Voyage of Time done and released I'd be all for it.


I don't get it. As it was, the family drama in Tree Of Life was nothing new nor that special. Like Koray says, putting it up against creation and its creator (!) is what differentiates this film with other family dramas.


You don't get it. I just want Voyage of Time to exist. The Tree of Life could have some of it, or not, I don't care.

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#194 Koray Savas

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 04:55 PM

It's in post-production according to IMDb.

I'm not sure if I want Malick to be going into commercial Hollywood mode. He's got 4 films going on at the same time. None of which have original composers, looks like he's done with them completely.

In 50 years Herrmann will be forgotten.


#195 Chaac

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 05:04 PM

I guess he had already written them and they're small films.

I want to go back to New Worlds and Thin Red Lines.

Izena duen guztia omen da.


#196 Koray Savas

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 05:12 PM

Two of them virtually have the same cast. This is a man that took a decade to edit one film. Shooting four films back-to-back doesn't sound right lol

In 50 years Herrmann will be forgotten.


#197 Chaac

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 05:22 PM

I don't think we'll understand what's going on until we see them. At first I thought Malick had these scripts around and had a moment of "oh god I have to make more films".

Izena duen guztia omen da.


#198 Koray Savas

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 05:32 PM

Perhaps.

In 50 years Herrmann will be forgotten.


#199 wanner251

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 04:47 AM

I'm a sucker for little Carol Anne in Poltergeist as well. Loads of teary moments in it, but one beautifully delicate standout is during the scene where her mother calls out for her over and over, and she finally says "Hi daddy," as he turns on the lamp. Craig T. Nelson's "hello sweetpea" response is just so subtly observed and Goldsmith handles the high emotion right there with the most gentle musical touch of his career, it's shivers down my spine stuff. That movie has done me in since I was a very young child and it hasn't lost any of its power thirty years later. One of the most honest portrayals of a young family's life ever filmed.



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Dark Crystal... Kira comes back to life... Trevor Jones.... Bombity bomb!
-So much of what we do is ephemeral and quickly forgotten, even by ourselves, so it's gratifying to have something you have done linger in people's memories.

JW

#200 Neimoidian

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 06:43 AM

Oh btw The Tree of Life would be that kind of film for me. It's absolutely stunning technically. I was in awe when I first saw it. More of an experience than a film.

Karol


I have never slept so good in a cinema.




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