148 replies to this topic

[Pasi Tiitinen]

I don't hate these scores , I can recognize there's a few great highlights but overall very overrated by people that have a strong emotional attachment to the films themselves.

Thank you KM for putting some sparkling action to this otherwise boring worship festival.

[Chaac]

I have way more attachment to the music than the films.

[Jason LeBlanc]

Me too (though i love the films too)

[king mark]

I like the LotR films about to Avatar level. Pretty good epic spectacle but not some of my all time favorite movies

Like I don't have LotR fan sites bookmarked into my browser

[Chaac]

LOTR music >> LOTR films >>>>>> Avatar

[Romão]

I don't particularly like the movies nor the the scores. They both fit in the "could have been worse, should've been better" category

[KK.]

Wow...this thread is overflowing with so much LotR hate right now....its almost laughable.

I've already expressed my love for the Lord of the Rings films in the Hobbit thread and I've already explained why I think they're some of the greatest films made (and my favourite); quite recently actually. So I'm not going to ramble on about their cinematic merits and achievements (and why its a million times better than Avatar) or pick on anyone.

The instance pointed in here was a very powerful moment in film, to hear the choir chanting the harmonies of the Nazgul thematic material in all its glory resonates with you on screen as the Nazgul sweep down upon its victims. It's not the greatest moment in the film or trilogy, but it is a fantastic moment on film. I also think The Siege of Gondor is some of the most brilliant action pieces in modern film music history; then again I also think The Return of the King is one of the most brilliant scores of all time (and my favourite of all time)...oops....sorry for having an opinion.

The level of thought put into these scores is absolutely phenomenal and it has yet to be rivalled by other film composers of the modern age. This score is the definite example of pasting a film onto sheet music. Shore brilliantly represents each character, concept, location, etc. with often bold and memorable themes (although there is a significant amount of subtle ones too) used and developed to such an extent that has rarely been witnessed in film music.

What I'm doing here by the way folks is not "blind worship", its me explaining why I think these scores rock. Thank you very much.

And picking on a someone because he mentioned he liked a certain cue is ridiculous. Grow up.

[indy4]

They're some of my favorite films. Unquestionably better than Avatar.

[Wojo]

I really feel bad for John Williams sometimes.

I feel bad he never wrote anything on par with LOTR.

Poor guy.

[king mark]

yeah whatever

[Incanus]

That particular section mentioned in the first post is rather visceral in the film scoring climate of the 2000's. As K.K. mentioned it is operatic in the way it reflects the story musically, the score almost becoming the Nazgûl in that moment, the choral chanting rising to screaming pitch like the voices of the Ringwraiths. As for the scores, they are without a doubt to me and I think it should be safe to say in general terms some of the most powerful film music ever composed.
Shore did something quite unprecendented with this music in terms of depth and layers when films scores are concerned. Whether you like his approach or musical voice is another matter of course but you can't deny its influence and effect on film music.

I also find it very funny when the talk turns to something like LotR or Zimmer's scores, but it really can be just some popular non-Williams score, and people with contrary opinions, usually with quite vehement passion, profess their love of Williams and drop comparisons with universally loved sacred scores like ESB or Raiders of the Lost Ark or E.T. or even Harry Potter. What can you say when someone presents you with an argument on taste and offers a well loved classic like the Williams scores above as proof. Often you love both the non-Williams score and the classic Williams' score but it not like you would want to compare them in any absolute way. You just like both. This inability to choose an absolute favourite is then taken as some kind of proof of inferiority of this non-Williams score and the "opposition" walks away with a satisfied grin. Their "belief" has just been reaffirmed.

Also there is always feel when someone continually harries a thread discussing something this poster doesn't obviously like, that he is trying to convert them or wake them up from believing in "a scam" of something he thinks as false or untrue. What distubs people when a few other people say they like something he doesn't? Is this the feeling of being outside this circle? Or is it to him boring when the discussion is not an argument (one of the people I know believes this)? Or is it this feeling frustration of seeing others being duped by this thing, be it music or any kind of art? In the matters of taste this is always funny because you can't usually reason people out of liking or disliking things, whatever the reason for that like may be. I would prefer offering comments and insights on things, especially about art in any form, to make people rethink, not necessarily "convert" from their "belief" but to understand alternate ways of seeing things. But often we are all rather one eyed aren't we?

[Ricard]

Wow...this thread is overflowing with so much LotR hate right now....its almost laughable.

I think it's exactly the opposite.

[Incanus]

Wow...this thread is overflowing with so much LotR hate right now....its almost laughable.

I think it's exactly the opposite.

Well this thread is almost overflowing with so much LotR love right now...it's good.

[BloodBoal]

That particular section mentioned in the first post is rather visceral in the film scoring climate of the 2000's. As K.K. mentioned it is operatic in the way it reflects the story musically, the score almost becoming the Nazgûl in that moment, the choral chanting rising to screaming pitch like the voices of the Ringwraiths. As for the scores, they are without a doubt to me and I think it should be safe to say in general terms some of the most powerful film music ever composed.
Shore did something quite unprecendented with this music in terms of depth and layers when films scores are concerned. Whether you like his approach or musical voice is another matter of course but you can't deny its influence and effect on film music.

I also find it very funny when the talk turns to something like LotR or Zimmer's scores, but it really can be just some popular non-Williams score, and people with contrary opinions, usually with quite vehement passion, profess their love of Williams and drop comparisons with universally loved sacred scores like ESB or Raiders of the Lost Ark or E.T. or even Harry Potter. What can you say when someone presents you with an argument on taste and offers a well loved classic like the Williams scores above as proof. Often you love both the non-Williams score and the classic Williams' score but it not like you would want to compare them in any absolute way. You just like both. This inability to choose an absolute favourite is then taken as some kind of proof of inferiority of this non-Williams score and the "opposition" walks away with a satisfied grin. Their "belief" has just been reaffirmed.

Also there is always feel when someone continually harries a thread discussing something this poster doesn't obviously like, that he is trying to convert them or wake them up from believing in "a scam" of something he thinks as false or untrue. What distubs people when a few other people say they like something he doesn't? Is this the feeling of being outside this circle? Or is it to him boring when the discussion is not an argument (one of the people I know believes this)? Or is it this feeling frustration of seeing others being duped by this thing, be it music or any kind of art? In the matters of taste this is always funny because you can't usually reason people out of liking or disliking things, whatever the reason for that like may be. I would prefer offering comments and insights on things, especially about art in any form, to make people rethink, not necessarily "convert" from their "belief" but to understand alternate ways of seeing things. But often we are all rather one eyed aren't we?

What a load of bullshit.

[Incanus]

Nuff said.

[Ricard]

Wow...this thread is overflowing with so much LotR hate right now....its almost laughable.

I think it's exactly the opposite.

Well this thread is almost overflowing with so much LotR love right now...

It was already like that before K.K.'s post and yours.

[Incanus]

You should see Doug Adams' blog. It is sickeningly and uniformly praising of the music of LotR. Or perhaps you shouldn't.

I do like to see a bit differing views that are present here. As fun as concensus is a bit of discussion from the other point of view is refreshing.

[Quint]

Lol, KM the fanboy threw his toys out of the pram again because someone dared to like a score more than some of his precious Williams works, boo hoo.

LotR is possibly the greatest achievement in all of film music history.

[Incanus]

Lol, KM the fanboy threw his toys out of the pram again because someone dared to like a score more than some of his precious Williams works, boo hoo.

LotR is possibly the greatest achievement in all of film music history.

You said it perhaps more succintly than I did, and with a colorful analogy to boot.

[Quint]

And I've just read Chaac's words on the quality of the battle itself. Lol, the dude just stooped to a whole new level of idiocy in my eyes.

[BloodBoal]

That's mean, Ren... I mean, Trent... I mean, Quint!

Damn it! You stole someone's avatar, someone's signature and someone's name, and you're getting away with it? WTF?

[publicist]

Hmmm...i always found Shore's counterpoint barely above John Barry-level. Which is no problem in the more melodic and emotive set pieces, but as soon as those action pieces with their ever-monotonous rhythms crop up, i hit FORWARD.

[Quint]

His action writing is definitely his Achilles heal. But the LotR action stuff is still head and shoulders above 90% of what's been written for movies in the last fifteen years.

[publicist]

What is a back-handed compliment if there ever was one.

[Incanus]

His action writing is definitely his Achilles heal. But the LotR action stuff is still head and shoulders above 90% of what's been written for movies in the last fifteen years.

But when you think the action writing of this score in relation to his previous scores in his career it is simply staggeringly good and unexpected. Actually these scores are the highest point of his career in every respect really. They have besides intellectual depth also strong emotional resonance as well.

What I admire in these scores is the constant flow of material, the thematic ideas building from one another and how they play interlaced and in conjunction, even the apparently repetetive rhythms of the action pieces carrying thematic significance. And it doesn't feel cluttered at all to me, just well and intricately constructed.

I do admit that some elements like long drawn out chords for either drama or tension do grate a bit in their uneventfulness but those are luckily in my opinion far and wide apart.

I was really skeptical about Shore's involvement with these films at first but the scores won me over little by little until I was completely convinced of their greatness. I if anyone was highly critical and had certain expectations for the music of my favourite novel but Shore succeeded to my eternal amazement beyond those. I am really happy about this since the music stands high in the junction of my three passions, music, film and literature, combining elements from all into a compelling whole.

[Quint]

What is a back-handed compliment if there ever was one.

Nah, not true. It's not for everyone, but Shore's action music is never anything less than classy piece of arse, in the eyes of the more discerning score pervert.

His action writing is definitely his Achilles heal. But the LotR action stuff is still head and shoulders above 90% of what's been written for movies in the last fifteen years.

But when you think the action writing of this score in relation to his previous scores in his career it is simply staggeringly good and unexpected. Actually these scores are the highest point of his career in every respect really.

Absolutely. And frankly, portions of that LotR action writing are sublime in their own right.

[BloodBoal]

His action writing is definitely his Achilles heal.

I'm sorry, but when I listen to tracks like The Battle Of The Hornburg, The Breach Of The Deeping Wall, Khazad-Dûm, Parth Galen, Shieldmaiden Of Rohan, The Battle of The Pelennor Fields, all I can say is: this is NBC.

[Quint]

Read my response to Incanus above.

[BloodBoal]

"Portions", "in its own right": take these two things out of your sentence, then we'll agree.

[Quint]

But I can't do that, since sections of the score I do find to be dull and monotonous. These are massive scores, after all.

I skip moments here and there in the Star Wars trilogy, too.

[king mark]

Well, time to leave this LotR fanboy gathering

[BloodBoal]

But I can't do that, since sections of the score I do find to be dull and monotonous. These are massive scores, after all.

Well, then just take "in its own right" out, then.

I do agree that there are a few action tracks that are a bit lacking, such as The Wolves Of Isengard, for example. Never really liked the second part of that one.

[Incanus]

Well, time to leave this LotR fanboy gathering

Well it isn't a "crucify LotR" thread after all.

[Quint]

Well, time to leave this LotR fanboy gathering

You invited yourself in anyway. Close the door on your way out, bye.

[Incanus]

The Prophet and Supreme Priest Master of JWFan has left this thread where his words of wisdom rang to heathen ears and infidel minds.

But okay I admit it John Williams is great too.

One particular aspect I like a lot about Shore's music for LotR is the use of the avant garde and modern orchestral techniques he often employs for the most ferocious action set pieces. They are often outlandish but work brilliantly in musical story telling, the film or the novel often giving the music easily acceptable frame of reference when otherwise if the composition had been done for concert hall I might have balked it. This way the music also introduces you to such devices and effects and makes you perhaps more receptive of them in the future, no matter the source, which I think is a great thing. His musical signature is so unique, it was refreshing to hear it employed in Tolkien's tale and it really just fit the story told on screen so well, capturing the light and the dark, the colours, drama and grandeur with deft skill. I can't quite explain in exact words but Shore's musical sound just fits the Middle Earth I imagined, being almost primordial in part, sounding ancient and earthy but at the same time also mystical and exotic. Whether it is the composer's voice or intentionally achieved sound, the slightly coarser edge, than say Williams' music, has serves the story, time and place well and sets it apart from most other "Hollywood" sounding scores. These were elements that attracted me to the music from the first listen but that understanding and fascination deepened through the years.

[tannhauser]

What I like about Shore's scores is the narrative quality, the amazing structure and wide arc of the trilogy's music as a whole. I tend not to listen to small isolated chunks very often, because I like to experience it in no smaller blocks than at least one film's complete recordings. Of course there are lots of outstanding highlights, truly stunning musical moments. But it's the concept of being able to relive the film through a listen to the score that keeps me endlessly interested in this music.

In fact, I find the experience of listening to the complete score while reading Doug's commentary, more gratifying and exciting, even from a story point of view, than watching the films themselves.

[Chaac]

I like The Return of the King, specially the whole last part (a big part of the success of these scenes), but I enjoy more the previous two scores, and I find other classic scores more accomplished such as Ben Hur which is really beautiful I think.

And I've just read Chaac's words on the quality of the battle itself. Lol, the dude just stooped to a whole new level of idiocy in my eyes.

I'm not not sure if it's my (I admit it) poor way of putting things into words, or all I read about warfare was bullshit. Anyway, it seems I loose one way or another because somebody decided it. I'm sorry I don't live up to some sort of messageboard standard.

[Incanus]

What I like about Shore's scores is the narrative quality, the amazing structure and wide arc of the trilogy's music as a whole. I tend not to listen to small isolated chunks very often, because I like to experience it in no smaller blocks than at least one film's complete recordings. Of course there are lots of outstanding highlights, truly stunning musical moments. But it's the concept of being able to relive the film through a listen to the score that keeps me endlessly interested in this music.

In fact, I find the experience of listening to the complete score while reading Doug's commentary, more gratifying and exciting, even from a story point of view, than watching the films themselves.

I have to say I also prefer to listen these scores in full and not in small snippets or highlights since I feel those do not do them justice as a whole. I remembering reading The Music of the Lord of the Rings Films while listening to the music when the book first came out but usually I prefer to listen to one whole complete score on its own, in a darkened room with very little distractions if possible and just enjoy the musical journey. If only it was possible more often.

[tannhauser]

Sounds awesome!

After listening to the CR's I just can't go back to the OST's at all. If I have less time I'd rather listen to one disc of the CR's than an OST album.

However I do enjoy listening to the Symphony, mainly because I enjoy Wicki's interpretation of the music.

[Quint]

And I've just read Chaac's words on the quality of the battle itself. Lol, the dude just stooped to a whole new level of idiocy in my eyes.

I'm not not sure if it's my (I admit it) poor way of putting things into words, or all I read about warfare was bullshit.

Anyway, it seems I loose one way or another because somebody decided it. I'm sorry I don't live up to some sort of messageboard standard.

You're a pathetic and embarrassing example of everything that's wrong in this world. Hang your head in shame and maybe, just maybe, you can come in from the cold, after you have had time to think about your actions.