Quintus 6,496 Posted January 17, 2013 Posted January 17, 2013 It'd been so long by now, but I've just been listening to the complete Grey Havens track (as heard on the CR) and it felt so fresh and moving to me; I was actually compelled to compare it with E.T.'s legendary farewell cue which too deals with exactly same themes as the LotR piece. Both have moved me to tears within their respective films and indeed outside of them as music in their own right. What's interesting though is there's a massive dramatic and stylistic gulf between the pieces - with E.T.'s cue being very much the full-on romanticised hit of sheer unabashed sentimentalism and RotK instead taking a far more tactile and reflective approach whose own melancholic flavour seems to work on more of a reflective, yearning level. It's a very gentle piece. The two cues are desperately bitter-sweet, but very different in terms of how they ultimately accomplish the same thing.Which do you prefer?
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,386 Posted January 17, 2013 Posted January 17, 2013 I love The Grey Havens to death. It's deeply moving and elective.But...Saying Goodbye is the single greatest track that John Williams has ever composed. When he passes away it is the one I will be playing after I hear the news and I will cry for him.And when JW reaches heaven, God will thank him for that track. For creating the one thing He couldn't!
Quintus 6,496 Posted January 17, 2013 Author Posted January 17, 2013 I didn't know you considered that to be JW's all-time greatest cue. It is indeed angelic, especially the proper film version.
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,386 Posted January 17, 2013 Posted January 17, 2013 The 1982 OST is as close as the film version as has been released and it's the one I listen too.Lee I've listened to that track HUNDREDS of times since the 90's. And still none of it's power is diminished.I have the E.T. Blu-ray here, waiting to be watched.
Quintus 6,496 Posted January 17, 2013 Author Posted January 17, 2013 Yeah, it's spine chilling stuff. My old cassette playing hi-fi eventually chewed up my first ost copy.But those soft strings which underscore Gandalf's parting words are, well...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,386 Posted January 17, 2013 Posted January 17, 2013 I've worn several casette tapes with E.T.I played it endlessly on my bikeride from school to home.I've got the OST on CD 3 times, for some reason.The weird thing is, even though Williams and others have recorded it with other orchestra's, and I've heard it performed in concert twice (once by the LSO no less) For some reason it never has the same impact as the "original" recording.
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,386 Posted January 17, 2013 Posted January 17, 2013 What is the THAT section for you?For me it begins with the slow buildup to the "I'll Be Right Here" fanfare.
Quintus 6,496 Posted January 17, 2013 Author Posted January 17, 2013 Passage, I meant to say. "Ouch"...The few seconds where God's angels were sent by Him to play the strings personally.It's the vital difference between the ost and other releases, annoyingly.
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,386 Posted January 17, 2013 Posted January 17, 2013 Yeah, it feels odd.We do need a perfect release of that score. Fuck that "the 2002 CD and the OST are good enough".
Bellosh 4,531 Posted January 17, 2013 Posted January 17, 2013 Saying Goodbye, matter of fact, I want to listen to it now.
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,386 Posted January 17, 2013 Posted January 17, 2013 Yes!what is grey haven?Its LOTR Joe, nothing you would like.
JoeinAR 1,957 Posted January 17, 2013 Posted January 17, 2013 you mean nothing worth liking. I really didn't know. I almost bought a LOTR cd once but then I came to my senses.
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,386 Posted January 17, 2013 Posted January 17, 2013 I finally know what to buy you for Valentine then...
Rachael Foley 10,162 Posted January 17, 2013 Posted January 17, 2013 Obviously E.T.(I can't stand the last cues of ROTK)
JoeinAR 1,957 Posted January 17, 2013 Posted January 17, 2013 Obviously E.T.(I can't stand the last cues of ROTK)that is the one I almost bought when I was in the columbia house cd club.
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,386 Posted January 17, 2013 Posted January 17, 2013 Do you want it with chocolates or flowers?I hope Dave will understand.
hornist 1,261 Posted January 17, 2013 Posted January 17, 2013 Passage, I meant to say. "Ouch"...The few seconds where God's angels were sent by Him to play the strings personally.It's the vital difference between the ost and other releases, annoyingly.Yeah!
gkgyver 1,647 Posted January 17, 2013 Posted January 17, 2013 Why is this not a poll?Anyway, it may be the minority opinion, but I think Williams has done better than ET. The Grey Havens for me. ET hits too close to the typical sirupy Hollywood ending for me. And it's not bad.But, despite being basically built just around a few chords, The Grey Havens is really an exercise in placing music to perfection, and doing so much with so little. It doesn't litter the scenery with superficial sugar, which would have been all to easy, but rather a very calm sense of realisation that is found very rarely. And it's really that which makes the scene so gutwrenching.On the other side, I have a John Williams finale of which there are plenty.
Xander Harris 9,675 Posted January 17, 2013 Posted January 17, 2013 E.T. is superior to any other film composer's work. It's the definitive score.
Brónach 1,330 Posted January 17, 2013 Posted January 17, 2013 E.T.We do need a perfect release of that score. Fuck that "the 2002 CD and the OST are good enough".Yes, it'd make sense.
Richard P 5,303 Posted January 17, 2013 Posted January 17, 2013 Is anyone seriously expecting a fair comparison here?Possibly the highest regarded Williams finale of all time, and against a score that many people here hate? It's an invitation for KM to come in and tell anyone who votes LotR that they're morons.E.T. is superior to any other film composer's work. It's the definitive score.I find many parts of it rather boring really. And yes, I'm, serious.
Brónach 1,330 Posted January 17, 2013 Posted January 17, 2013 ET hits too close to the typical sirupy Hollywood endingI don't see that.
Rachael Foley 10,162 Posted January 17, 2013 Posted January 17, 2013 I find that ET has an Identity crisis, the more dire film score, and the happier album.I find the finale (after the action music) meandering.
Nick1Ø66 8,330 Posted January 17, 2013 Posted January 17, 2013 E.T. is a beautiful, brilliant score, and clearly one of William's best. That much is clear.Nonetheless, I prefer The Grey Havens, if for no other reason than I feel more of an emotional connection to what's going on in ROTK than I do at the end of E.T. And I don't necessarily agree that they're covering the same exact same emotional ground. I'm also not nearly as big a fan of E.T., the movie, as I am ROTK, or any of the LOTR films, and admittedly I can't separate that from how I feel about the score in general. And while I think ROTK is the weakest of the three films, for a variety of reasons, the Grey Havens scene packs an emotional punch for me.In fact, as an adult, there are several times in the last 30 min of ROTK that I've gotten choked up, and that's never happened in my viewings of E.T. as an adult. So that obviously has an impact on how I regard the music accompanying those scenes as well. It has nothing to do with Williams vs. Shore and who did their job more effectively, they both succeed remarkably. But yeah, I prefer the Shore in this case.Sorry.PS. Yoda and the Force is the greatest piece ever Williams ever composed.
Brónach 1,330 Posted January 17, 2013 Posted January 17, 2013 When I first saw ROTK the ending has a terrible impact on me and so did the music. Today I like the music, I particularly like the end credits song, but I don't feel the same. Just a certain melancholy. I don't associate the music with the film much either.When I first saw E.T. I felt that certain melancholy making its way into the music. But today it makes me want to cry my eyes out. I mostly only listen to the beginning of the score.The kid wants to be an adult, the adult wants to be a kid.
BloodBoal 8,711 Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 The kid wants to be an adult, the adult wants to be a kid.Wow. That's deep, man!
crocodile 9,724 Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 The E.T. finale works better without that horrible music. Karol
Richard P 5,303 Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 I haven't seen the film for years (more than I'd care to admit), but without the music, that scene is rather unremarkable.
BLUMENKOHL 1,110 Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 Neither. Jerry Goldsmith's Kick The Can!
Nick1Ø66 8,330 Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 The E.T. finale works better without that horrible music. KarolHmmmm. If the point of that clip is supposed to be that the scene sucks w/o William's music, I'm actually not that sure it accomplishes what it wants to. I think the scene without music has a kind of atmospheric coolness about it...I love all the ambient noises going on there...the soft hum of the ship, the owl, the quiet night breeze. Beautiful sound production.Not that it's better obviously, just different from the very Hollywood emotional moment the score creates. The scene clearly would not work this way, but I enjoyed watching it like this.Interesting. But off the top of my head I can think of half a dozen Williams cues (I don't know, Binary Sunset) that would have illustrated this point better.
Brónach 1,330 Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 The kid wants to be an adult, the adult wants to be a kid.Wow. That's deep, man!Don't laugh. I sound overly cheesy but it came out that way
BloodBoal 8,711 Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 I'm not laughing. I'm rolling in the deep.
BLUMENKOHL 1,110 Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 The E.T. finale works better without that horrible music. KarolI...actually like it more without the music. The sound of E.T.'s footsteps...as he leaves...Much more of a punch.
Ollie 1,375 Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 I love Shore's scores to the LOTR films but E.T. is the winner here.Saying Goodbye still makes tear up when I listen to it.
Quintus 6,496 Posted January 18, 2013 Author Posted January 18, 2013 I find that ET has an Identity crisis, the more dire film score, and the happier album.I find the finale (after the action music) meandering.Really? I think the triumphant finale (after all the sobbing is over and E.T. returns to his ship) is possibly the greatest close to a movie, ever. Williams and Spielberg talk a lot about synch throughout this long piece and while it's the case that they were on a technical level, it's never mentioned by anyone that in those final closing seconds as the ship lifts off director and composer were in synch on much more than than just a technical level. It was there mentally and spiritually, too. Powerful stuff.
wanner251 18 Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 All you guys who think that the ending works better without the music are way too cool for me... Anyway, where's KM?
Quintus 6,496 Posted January 18, 2013 Author Posted January 18, 2013 He can't bring himself to post in a thread which may cause him to have a stroke.
Brónach 1,330 Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 Specially if it involves people saying the ending of E.T. is better without music.
wanner251 18 Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 The whole notion of that just seems "too hip for the room" kind of talk. I can see it now... film class... everyone watches the ending of E.T., and with berets and finger-snapping, the class agrees "Man, dig that downer music, turn it off, Daddy-O! I can't handle you right now, JW."
Xander Harris 9,675 Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 The finale of E.T. is the crowning achievement of both Williams and Spielberg's careers.
Xander Harris 9,675 Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 That would be a pitiful crown.I'm coming for you with a walkie-talkie.
indy4 160 Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 Is anyone seriously expecting a fair comparison here?Possibly the highest regarded Williams finale of all time, and against a score that many people here hate? It's an invitation for KM to come in and tell anyone who votes LotR that they're morons.Wait, so we're not allowed to compare a JW work to a non-JW work because we're biased? Can't we just enjoy the conversation for its own sake, regardless of bias? Is anybody claiming this thread was intended to establish the definitive answer to the question of the two cues?
chuck 155 Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 Neither. Jerry Goldsmith's Kick The Can!Camelot Lives
JoeinAR 1,957 Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 I don't even know what Saying Goodbye is, the track is Adventures on Earth.
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