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Howard Shore's The Desolation Of Smaug (Hobbit Part 2)

Score Talk 2013 Scores The Hobbit Howard Shore Tolkien

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#601 SafeUnderHill

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 08:42 PM

As long as the Song/Piece is worked with by Shore, and the piece doesn't have all sorts of super-modern mixing techniques (Phasers, Bass Enhancement, Autotune etc.) I don't have any objections towards any artist


If Shore is involved it won't include those things. I wonder how popular the Song of the Lonely Mountain was commercially, did the single sell well? I'm sure Into The West was a commercial success or at least well know on after it's Oscar. Hopefully they'll see the negative reviews from many and go back to Shore (which will fit with the LOTR pattern of Shore doing the second two), personally I rather enjoy Finns piece but see the criticism and would prefer something like Gollums Song. Fingers crossed for Tauriels Song!
I love hindsight.

BloodBoal "In any case, I like what I'm hearing about Azog. All reviews (even the bad ones) mention him as an awesome villain. Can't wait to see him (although I'm not really happy with the fact that it seems the whole "undead" business was true)."

Early AUJ review "Special attention must be given to the musical score of the film, both for original pieces (such as Misty Mountains, the haunting yet stirring theme for the Dwarves) and incorporation of the themes from Lord of the Rings. The musical cues go a long way to reinforce the connection I mentioned above. While the Misty Mountains theme pervades the film, there are also ties to the Shire, the Ring and even a heroic bit of music that I wont spoil here, but will come as a welcome surprise. "
Once "I wonder what part he's talking about." gkgyver "Probably the eagles." Once "Oh right!"

#602 gkgyver

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 09:02 PM

Oh you can be sure there will be a love theme!


"You think they wear those tight-fitting clothes just so some other bride can say 'Gee your hips look succulent'? The good-looking ones know we're looking, they love us to be looking, and god bless 'em, they're carrying the rest of their sex!" - Al Bundy


#603 Faleel

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 09:03 PM

 

As long as the Song/Piece is worked with by Shore, and the piece doesn't have all sorts of super-modern mixing techniques (Phasers, Bass Enhancement, Autotune etc.) I don't have any objections towards any artist


If Shore is involved it won't include those things.

 

All of the LOTR songs feature reverb effects, though in LOTR it is not a bad thing.


Among all the things I have done in my short and pitiful life, becoming an inside joke on JWFAN is the one I'm the least proud of.


The additional passage was interesting but not really something I would consider absolutely essential.


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#604 SafeUnderHill

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 09:10 PM

Reverbs applied to all voices isn't it? Not noticeably computerised sound.

As in reverb is used in most vocal tracks in music period.

It's a good thing they didn't autotune the Misty Mountain song! Or at least if they didn't it isn't noticeable. Does any one else see that they increase the voice of the actor who is currently on screen singing during that song. It's most noticeable with the shot of Bofur and you hear Nesbit's voice prominently.
I love hindsight.

BloodBoal "In any case, I like what I'm hearing about Azog. All reviews (even the bad ones) mention him as an awesome villain. Can't wait to see him (although I'm not really happy with the fact that it seems the whole "undead" business was true)."

Early AUJ review "Special attention must be given to the musical score of the film, both for original pieces (such as Misty Mountains, the haunting yet stirring theme for the Dwarves) and incorporation of the themes from Lord of the Rings. The musical cues go a long way to reinforce the connection I mentioned above. While the Misty Mountains theme pervades the film, there are also ties to the Shire, the Ring and even a heroic bit of music that I wont spoil here, but will come as a welcome surprise. "
Once "I wonder what part he's talking about." gkgyver "Probably the eagles." Once "Oh right!"

#605 BloodBoal

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 09:15 PM

I'm sure Into The West was a commercial success or at least well know on after it's Oscar.

 

I don't think so.

 

As far as I can tell, the only film songs that were a commercial success are the song from The Bodyguard (something like I'll Protect You Until My Body Is A Rotten Corpse), My Heart Will Go On, Bryan Adam's Everything I Do and I See You (not even sure that one performed well). That is all.


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#606 Faleel

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 09:16 PM

Reverbs applied to all voices isn't it? Not noticeably computerised sound.

I mean the Reverb like in Gollum's Song where it "phases" ("bounces") from the left to right channels:

"Face the end alone alone alone alone"


Among all the things I have done in my short and pitiful life, becoming an inside joke on JWFAN is the one I'm the least proud of.


The additional passage was interesting but not really something I would consider absolutely essential.


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#607 Score

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 09:17 PM

More Conrad Pope comments!

 

 

Scott ask...

 

Would love to see one of his sketches one day. Are they like JW's sketches? 7-8 lines short score?

 

 

Conrad Pope says...

 

I can't comment on anything I'm working on, Scott- I hope you understand, and what I'm about to write pertains in no way to my current work or the people I'm presently working with or for. It's merely a "rumination" about composers' "sketches" from someone who's work a long time, on many different films as an orchestrator. I'm often asked about JW's sketches, so here goes: JW's sketches AREN't sketches per se--- they are what the Germans refer to as a particell --- a short SCORE. The only composers who come close or equal that, whom I've worked for, are Jerry Goldsmith, Don Davis and William Ross-and, whose sketches I've seen: Bruce Broughton.

 

In addition to being composers, these gentleman are and were "students" of the craft as well as original, thoughtful orchestrators/arrangers in their own right-- besides being composers! Their kind of "sketch" has dynamics, articulations and is reasonably complete and "orchestrally" conceived--- properly notated durations for the choirs, for the tempi they've chosen, etc.etc., "conductorly savvy", etc. That said, most writers today provide an mp3 and a MIDI sequence---- and call themselves "John Williams" because, after all, isn't THAT the music, isn't it all there ( if you've heard the "sequence"? No, sadly.) A well written short score is a novel, a letter which--- through the individual use of notation - can reveal an artistic soul. That many don't appreciate the coordination of the hand, eye and ear is an ever increasing problem today-- because, frankly, these skills are less relevant in today's music production mill.

 

As one of my teachers replied to me when I said "Boy, writing music is hard", he said: "Writing music isn't hard, COMPOSING music is hard". I know my rambling this doesn't answer your question directly--- as I can't, but I hope it offer my view into-so called "sketching"--- which everyone does. No matter how you sketch, you always reveal the composer- and musician- you are. JW is "ne plus ultra".

 

Although we already knew that, it is always nice (I would say, almost moving  :) ) to hear this kind of praise from someone who works so closely with JW. No wonder that also those other four composers are included in the "gentlemen" list. 



#608 Faleel

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 09:17 PM

 

As far as I can tell, the only film songs that were a commercial success

What about some of the Bond songs?


Among all the things I have done in my short and pitiful life, becoming an inside joke on JWFAN is the one I'm the least proud of.


The additional passage was interesting but not really something I would consider absolutely essential.


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#609 Sharky

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 09:17 PM

Reverbs applied to all voices isn't it? Not noticeably computerised sound.

I mean the Reverb like in Gollum's Song where it "phases" ("bounces") from the left to right channels:

"Face the end alone alone alone alone"


That's not phasing. That's called ping-pong delay.

#610 gkgyver

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 09:18 PM

 

I'm sure Into The West was a commercial success or at least well know on after it's Oscar.

 

I don't think so.

 

As far as I can tell, the only film songs that were a commercial success are the song from The Bodyguard (something like I'll Protect You Until My Body Is A Rotten Corpse), My Heart Will Go On, Bryan Adam's Everything I Do and I See You (not even sure that one performed well). That is all.

 

 

Ever heard of Skyfall?


"You think they wear those tight-fitting clothes just so some other bride can say 'Gee your hips look succulent'? The good-looking ones know we're looking, they love us to be looking, and god bless 'em, they're carrying the rest of their sex!" - Al Bundy


#611 Faleel

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 09:19 PM

 

 

Reverbs applied to all voices isn't it? Not noticeably computerised sound.

I mean the Reverb like in Gollum's Song where it "phases" ("bounces") from the left to right channels:

"Face the end alone alone alone alone"

 


That's not phasing. That's called ping-pong delay.

 

I never said it was.


Among all the things I have done in my short and pitiful life, becoming an inside joke on JWFAN is the one I'm the least proud of.


The additional passage was interesting but not really something I would consider absolutely essential.


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#612 Sharky

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 09:20 PM

I'm sure Into The West was a commercial success or at least well know on after it's Oscar.

 
I don't think so.
 
As far as I can tell, the only film songs that were a commercial success are the song from The Bodyguard (something like I'll Protect You Until My Body Is A Rotten Corpse), My Heart Will Go On, Bryan Adam's Everything I Do and I See You (not even sure that one performed well). That is all.


Did cinema start in 1991?

Reverbs applied to all voices isn't it? Not noticeably computerised sound.

I mean the Reverb like in Gollum's Song where it "phases" ("bounces") from the left to right channels:

"Face the end alone alone alone alone"


That's not phasing. That's called ping-pong delay.

I never said it was.


Well, you said it 'phases' and you called it reverb.

#613 BloodBoal

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 09:28 PM

 

 

As far as I can tell, the only film songs that were a commercial success

What about some of the Bond songs?

 

 

Ah, yeah, that too.



 

 

I'm sure Into The West was a commercial success or at least well know on after it's Oscar.

 
I don't think so.
 
As far as I can tell, the only film songs that were a commercial success are the song from The Bodyguard (something like I'll Protect You Until My Body Is A Rotten Corpse), My Heart Will Go On, Bryan Adam's Everything I Do and I See You (not even sure that one performed well). That is all.

 


Did cinema start in 1991?

 

OK, OK, whatever!

 

Anyway, my point was that Into The West wasn't a (big) commercial success.


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#614 Faleel

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 09:31 PM


Well, you said it 'phases' and you called it reverb.

 

Ever heard of a description?

It acts similar to a phaser (sending the sound back and forth through the Stereo Field), and its reverbial (its usually wetter, and contained in the rear channels in a 5.1/7.1 mix) so it may not be the correct terminology, but I described it based on things I do know (which is very little ;) )


Among all the things I have done in my short and pitiful life, becoming an inside joke on JWFAN is the one I'm the least proud of.


The additional passage was interesting but not really something I would consider absolutely essential.


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#615 SafeUnderHill

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 09:52 PM


Reverbs applied to all voices isn't it? Not noticeably computerised sound.

I mean the Reverb like in Gollum's Song where it "phases" ("bounces") from the left to right channels:

"Face the end alone alone alone alone"

Isn't that called panning?


 


 As far as I can tell, the only film songs that were a commercial success

What about some of the Bond songs?
 
 
Ah, yeah, that too.

 

 

I'm sure Into The West was a commercial success or at least well know on after it's Oscar.

 
I don't think so.
 
As far as I can tell, the only film songs that were a commercial success are the song from The Bodyguard (something like I'll Protect You Until My Body Is A Rotten Corpse), My Heart Will Go On, Bryan Adam's Everything I Do and I See You (not even sure that one performed well). That is all.
 
Did cinema start in 1991?
 
OK, OK, whatever!
 
Anyway, my point was that Into The West wasn't a (big) commercial success.

It's a lot more well known than May It Be though, surely. And now most blockbuster films are getting mainstream artists to do songs which often sell a lot of copies, the they have those weird albums that are inspired by the film but basically just pop songs.
I love hindsight.

BloodBoal "In any case, I like what I'm hearing about Azog. All reviews (even the bad ones) mention him as an awesome villain. Can't wait to see him (although I'm not really happy with the fact that it seems the whole "undead" business was true)."

Early AUJ review "Special attention must be given to the musical score of the film, both for original pieces (such as Misty Mountains, the haunting yet stirring theme for the Dwarves) and incorporation of the themes from Lord of the Rings. The musical cues go a long way to reinforce the connection I mentioned above. While the Misty Mountains theme pervades the film, there are also ties to the Shire, the Ring and even a heroic bit of music that I wont spoil here, but will come as a welcome surprise. "
Once "I wonder what part he's talking about." gkgyver "Probably the eagles." Once "Oh right!"

#616 Sharky

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 10:03 PM

Reverbs applied to all voices isn't it? Not noticeably computerised sound.

I mean the Reverb like in Gollum's Song where it "phases" ("bounces") from the left to right channels:

"Face the end alone alone alone alone"


Isn't that called panning?


As I said, it's ping pong delay: a combination of delay (echo) and autopanning (where you don't have to fiddle with any faders to pan). Autopanning is like the World Engine sound in MOS.

#617 chuckster312

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 12:13 AM

Needs more Miley Cyrus twerking Bilbo in the MV.



#618 TheGreyPilgrim

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 12:52 AM

On The Paths Of Twerkwood


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#619 Jay

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 03:17 AM

Beorn This Way.

 

:lol:


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#620 SafeUnderHill

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 08:34 PM

Doug's tweeted again teasing the Hobbit, don't even know what he's talking about! I'm desperate for some music news, you think I'd be satisfied with a whole two CDs of Hobbit music and a film but apparently not.
I love hindsight.

BloodBoal "In any case, I like what I'm hearing about Azog. All reviews (even the bad ones) mention him as an awesome villain. Can't wait to see him (although I'm not really happy with the fact that it seems the whole "undead" business was true)."

Early AUJ review "Special attention must be given to the musical score of the film, both for original pieces (such as Misty Mountains, the haunting yet stirring theme for the Dwarves) and incorporation of the themes from Lord of the Rings. The musical cues go a long way to reinforce the connection I mentioned above. While the Misty Mountains theme pervades the film, there are also ties to the Shire, the Ring and even a heroic bit of music that I wont spoil here, but will come as a welcome surprise. "
Once "I wonder what part he's talking about." gkgyver "Probably the eagles." Once "Oh right!"

#621 BloodBoal

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 08:54 PM

I'm certainly more excited about this score than I was for AUJ.


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#622 SafeUnderHill

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 08:56 PM

How is that? I'd have thought after 10 years there'd be such a buzz for a return to middle earth music. Was AUJ so good you're now expecting more this year or what? You couldn't have known AUJ would be slightly disappointing before it came out.
I love hindsight.

BloodBoal "In any case, I like what I'm hearing about Azog. All reviews (even the bad ones) mention him as an awesome villain. Can't wait to see him (although I'm not really happy with the fact that it seems the whole "undead" business was true)."

Early AUJ review "Special attention must be given to the musical score of the film, both for original pieces (such as Misty Mountains, the haunting yet stirring theme for the Dwarves) and incorporation of the themes from Lord of the Rings. The musical cues go a long way to reinforce the connection I mentioned above. While the Misty Mountains theme pervades the film, there are also ties to the Shire, the Ring and even a heroic bit of music that I wont spoil here, but will come as a welcome surprise. "
Once "I wonder what part he's talking about." gkgyver "Probably the eagles." Once "Oh right!"

#623 Jay

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 09:00 PM

Yea I agree with SUH, BB's post makes no sense.  Of course AUJ was more anticipated!


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#624 BloodBoal

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 09:01 PM

Was AUJ so good you're now expecting more this year or what?

 

Not at all. It's just that, knowing where it would end, I knew the film wouldn't offer Shore many opportunities to write amazing cues (especially because of the places visited that were already explored in LOTR, characters returning, etc). The Desolation Of Smaug, on the other hand, offers a shitload of opportunities for Shore to write awesome music, and to offer a lot of new themes that will be a welcome breath of fresh air (AUJ did have new themes, but not that many, and the themes were LOTR were still very present). Do I need to say it again? Beorn, Bard, Thranduil, Laketown, the Company vs Smaug, barrels out of bond, Dol Guldur... !

 

Yea I agree with SUH, BB's post makes no sense.  Of course AUJ was more anticipated!

 

Not by me!


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#625 Faleel

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 09:01 PM

Well the book existed a long while, he probably new that there would be alot of LOTR themes returning at first etc.


Among all the things I have done in my short and pitiful life, becoming an inside joke on JWFAN is the one I'm the least proud of.


The additional passage was interesting but not really something I would consider absolutely essential.


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#626 BloodBoal

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 09:03 PM

Well the book existed a long while, he probably new that there would be alot of LOTR themes returning at first etc.

 

There you go!


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#627 SafeUnderHill

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 09:08 PM

There were plenty of places for awesome music in the first one, Shore succeeded quite often in fulfilling them even if these moments weren't used in the film. I do remember some hoping themes would return since there was no guarantee, it must have been cool to hear the favourites such as the mysterious Thorins map theme from FOTR, Pity of Gollum and Isengard on the CD for the first time.

For me the thought of hearing the themes again would have been very exciting, new variations and things. I feel like I missed out on the excitement of my first CD listen somehow, maybe it was due to listening after the film and not being as into the soundtracks as I am now.
I love hindsight.

BloodBoal "In any case, I like what I'm hearing about Azog. All reviews (even the bad ones) mention him as an awesome villain. Can't wait to see him (although I'm not really happy with the fact that it seems the whole "undead" business was true)."

Early AUJ review "Special attention must be given to the musical score of the film, both for original pieces (such as Misty Mountains, the haunting yet stirring theme for the Dwarves) and incorporation of the themes from Lord of the Rings. The musical cues go a long way to reinforce the connection I mentioned above. While the Misty Mountains theme pervades the film, there are also ties to the Shire, the Ring and even a heroic bit of music that I wont spoil here, but will come as a welcome surprise. "
Once "I wonder what part he's talking about." gkgyver "Probably the eagles." Once "Oh right!"

#628 BloodBoal

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 09:09 PM

Anyway, my point is: this score has every chance to have a lot more to offer than AUJ! More diversity, more action, more themes, more composers, more orchestrators, more everything!


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#629 Jay

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 09:12 PM

I think DOS will end up being a better score now, but the years of anticipation building up to Shore returning to middle earth EASILY dwarfs the one year wait between these scores we're in right now.


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#630 SafeUnderHill

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 09:21 PM

Haha I like the positivity about more orchestrators.

I looked back at the start of the Hobbit threads and don't remember seeing extreme levels of anticipation, may I should have looked at some OneRing.Net threads. Radagast The Brown was a very good track to first preview since it introduced Gandalfs theme and I remember thinking it sounded beautiful, Radagasts music was completely new and exciting. I wonder if they knew at that point an alternate would be used in the film or if releasing that track was some kind of test or to show the film editors people like it, complete over analysis on my part I know.
I love hindsight.

BloodBoal "In any case, I like what I'm hearing about Azog. All reviews (even the bad ones) mention him as an awesome villain. Can't wait to see him (although I'm not really happy with the fact that it seems the whole "undead" business was true)."

Early AUJ review "Special attention must be given to the musical score of the film, both for original pieces (such as Misty Mountains, the haunting yet stirring theme for the Dwarves) and incorporation of the themes from Lord of the Rings. The musical cues go a long way to reinforce the connection I mentioned above. While the Misty Mountains theme pervades the film, there are also ties to the Shire, the Ring and even a heroic bit of music that I wont spoil here, but will come as a welcome surprise. "
Once "I wonder what part he's talking about." gkgyver "Probably the eagles." Once "Oh right!"

#631 BloodBoal

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 09:24 PM

I remember the reactions. The first description I read was: "Sounds like Zimmer's Sherlock Holmes!"

 

Big "WTF?" moment. The return of Middle-Earth music and... it was nothing like what we could have expected!


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#632 gkgyver

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 12:29 AM

I find it nice that Shore gets the first credit at the end of the trailer, before the producers, writers and so on.


"You think they wear those tight-fitting clothes just so some other bride can say 'Gee your hips look succulent'? The good-looking ones know we're looking, they love us to be looking, and god bless 'em, they're carrying the rest of their sex!" - Al Bundy


#633 Alex Shore

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 11:23 AM

Some pics of the sound enginner Victor Pesanto (Working on  DOS)

 

 

 

1009856_10201715900082331_1482316124_n.j

 

 

 

66941_10201715900122332_1819972146_n.jpg

 

 

 

Taiko time!

 

1376334_10201911527852903_716829980_n.jp

 

 

 

Mr. Pope with some sheet music...surrounded by tibetan gongs)

 

 

1379207_10201911528092909_1881505243_n.j



#634 Incanus

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 11:38 AM

Lovely photos! Thank you for sharing Alex Shore! :)

 

Obviously the harpists are dangerous. I have always known that. Deep inner frustrations. So there has to be that sign on their "cage" to warn people. In English and in Tengwar. ;)


Ars superior est vita hominum.

 

"We pop out and come into the world and music is there. We didn't invent it - it's all organised in the atmosphere by divinity or whatever. It's a miracle." - John Williams-

 

I think music is a stream of some kind. It could be blood. It could be water. It could be ether. Whatever it is it seems to be a living, organic force that’s in motion, that serves humanity and is part of humanity and part of what describes us as humans. We sing, play, dance, all the things that we do. And there is a vibrant and great literature we have been given. ... As musicians, we join the stream. We swim in the stream with all the other millions of music makers. It’s a life force, a strong one, surrounding us and we are part of it. -John Williams-


#635 BloodBoal

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 12:23 PM

It's nice to see the composer smiling. You can see he's having a great time working on this score.


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#636 chuckster312

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 12:42 PM

Nice gold tinted glasses there.



#637 Incanus

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 12:43 PM

It's nice to see the composer smiling. You can see he's having a great time working on this score.

Do not go there BB. Just don't.


Ars superior est vita hominum.

 

"We pop out and come into the world and music is there. We didn't invent it - it's all organised in the atmosphere by divinity or whatever. It's a miracle." - John Williams-

 

I think music is a stream of some kind. It could be blood. It could be water. It could be ether. Whatever it is it seems to be a living, organic force that’s in motion, that serves humanity and is part of humanity and part of what describes us as humans. We sing, play, dance, all the things that we do. And there is a vibrant and great literature we have been given. ... As musicians, we join the stream. We swim in the stream with all the other millions of music makers. It’s a life force, a strong one, surrounding us and we are part of it. -John Williams-


#638 chuckster312

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 12:47 PM

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#639 gkgyver

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 01:16 PM

It's nice to see the composer smiling. You can see he's having a great time working on this score.


He's just smirking about the simplistic music he has to conduct, nothing more! Don't be silly!

"You think they wear those tight-fitting clothes just so some other bride can say 'Gee your hips look succulent'? The good-looking ones know we're looking, they love us to be looking, and god bless 'em, they're carrying the rest of their sex!" - Al Bundy


#640 Incanus

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 01:27 PM

 

It's nice to see the composer smiling. You can see he's having a great time working on this score.


He's just smirking about the simplistic music he has to conduct, nothing more! Don't be silly!

 

Is that a tone of indignation I read into that comment Georg? Indignation on Shore's behalf?


Ars superior est vita hominum.

 

"We pop out and come into the world and music is there. We didn't invent it - it's all organised in the atmosphere by divinity or whatever. It's a miracle." - John Williams-

 

I think music is a stream of some kind. It could be blood. It could be water. It could be ether. Whatever it is it seems to be a living, organic force that’s in motion, that serves humanity and is part of humanity and part of what describes us as humans. We sing, play, dance, all the things that we do. And there is a vibrant and great literature we have been given. ... As musicians, we join the stream. We swim in the stream with all the other millions of music makers. It’s a life force, a strong one, surrounding us and we are part of it. -John Williams-






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