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Howard Shore's The Desolation Of Smaug (Hobbit Part 2)

Score Talk 2013 Scores The Hobbit Howard Shore Tolkien

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#801 Incanus

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 01:46 PM

I still think it might be health reasons

Let's not jump into rash conclusions here. I know you like your health theory but most likely a reasonable explanation is that the music production has been divided and handled differently this time around. Everything is pointing to that direction in my opinion.

And what if Conrad Pope has been conducting the score? Does it somehow lessen its value in our eyes and ears? What is Shore is using orchestrators. Does that mean that it isn't his music anymore but somehow the orchestrator changes his style and voice? Shouldn't a good orchestrator do the exact opposite and assume the voice of the composer he is hired to help?

 

So I still don't understand the panic that has been plaguing this discussion for a while now, even though it comes out in the form of humour and jokes. We will hear the results of these recording sessions before Christmas when the soundtrack comes out. Let's not make too far flung judgements on the score before that based on very little information.


Ars superior est vita hominum.

 

"We pop out and come into the world and music is there. We didn't invent it - it's all organised in the atmosphere by divinity or whatever. It's a miracle." - John Williams-

 

I think music is a stream of some kind. It could be blood. It could be water. It could be ether. Whatever it is it seems to be a living, organic force that’s in motion, that serves humanity and is part of humanity and part of what describes us as humans. We sing, play, dance, all the things that we do. And there is a vibrant and great literature we have been given. ... As musicians, we join the stream. We swim in the stream with all the other millions of music makers. It’s a life force, a strong one, surrounding us and we are part of it. -John Williams-


#802 TownerFan

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 02:08 PM

I guess it's more likely to assume that there were scheduling conflicts with Scorsese's The Wolf of Wall Street. That film was originally slated for a fall 2013 release, but then it was moved to early 2014, as Scorsese asked the studio more time to finish the film.

 

However, it looks like Paramount is pushing hard Scorsese to deliver the film on its original date, because apparently they don't want to miss the big awards season. And now the official release date has been moved back to November 2013.

 

http://blogs.indiewi...street-deadline

 

I suppose this means something for Shore's involvement as well.



#803 Barnald

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 02:20 PM

Is Shore using orchestrators and conductors for Wolf of Wall Street?



#804 SafeUnderHill

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 03:06 PM

I guess it's more likely to assume that there were scheduling conflicts with Scorsese's The Wolf of Wall Street. That film was originally slated for a fall 2013 release, but then it was moved to early 2014, as Scorsese asked the studio more time to finish the film.
 
However, it looks like Paramount is pushing hard Scorsese to deliver the film on its original date, because apparently they don't want to miss the big awards season. And now the official release date has been moved back to November 2013.
 
http://blogs.indiewi...street-deadline
 
I suppose this means something for Shore's involvement as well.


Finally! A well reasoned explanation of Shores absence, thanks for sharing that.

Is Shore using orchestrators and conductors for Wolf of Wall Street?


That's what I was wondering, I doubt it since I think his other films don't contain as much music and rewrite as the LOTR ones (correct me if I'm wrong). It seems the orchestrators and conductors steeped in to get the DOS score finished at the same time.

Will Shore conduct TABA? Time will tell.
I love hindsight.

BloodBoal "In any case, I like what I'm hearing about Azog. All reviews (even the bad ones) mention him as an awesome villain. Can't wait to see him (although I'm not really happy with the fact that it seems the whole "undead" business was true)."

Early AUJ review "Special attention must be given to the musical score of the film, both for original pieces (such as Misty Mountains, the haunting yet stirring theme for the Dwarves) and incorporation of the themes from Lord of the Rings. The musical cues go a long way to reinforce the connection I mentioned above. While the Misty Mountains theme pervades the film, there are also ties to the Shire, the Ring and even a heroic bit of music that I wont spoil here, but will come as a welcome surprise. "
Once "I wonder what part he's talking about." gkgyver "Probably the eagles." Once "Oh right!"

#805 Incanus

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 03:21 PM

Well if Shore has this other tight schedule scoring gig underway then I don't wonder at all if he is dividing his time between DoS and Wolf of Wallstreet in this fashion. Of course we do not officially know if it actually is The Wolf of Wallstreet production that is the reason for the way Shore and PJ have orchestrated the DoS recording sessions.


Ars superior est vita hominum.

 

"We pop out and come into the world and music is there. We didn't invent it - it's all organised in the atmosphere by divinity or whatever. It's a miracle." - John Williams-

 

I think music is a stream of some kind. It could be blood. It could be water. It could be ether. Whatever it is it seems to be a living, organic force that’s in motion, that serves humanity and is part of humanity and part of what describes us as humans. We sing, play, dance, all the things that we do. And there is a vibrant and great literature we have been given. ... As musicians, we join the stream. We swim in the stream with all the other millions of music makers. It’s a life force, a strong one, surrounding us and we are part of it. -John Williams-


#806 SafeUnderHill

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 03:28 PM

Its the best reason I've heard so far, before we have official word.
I love hindsight.

BloodBoal "In any case, I like what I'm hearing about Azog. All reviews (even the bad ones) mention him as an awesome villain. Can't wait to see him (although I'm not really happy with the fact that it seems the whole "undead" business was true)."

Early AUJ review "Special attention must be given to the musical score of the film, both for original pieces (such as Misty Mountains, the haunting yet stirring theme for the Dwarves) and incorporation of the themes from Lord of the Rings. The musical cues go a long way to reinforce the connection I mentioned above. While the Misty Mountains theme pervades the film, there are also ties to the Shire, the Ring and even a heroic bit of music that I wont spoil here, but will come as a welcome surprise. "
Once "I wonder what part he's talking about." gkgyver "Probably the eagles." Once "Oh right!"

#807 Incanus

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 03:30 PM

Its the best reason I've heard so far, before we have official word.

Isn't it awful how we don't have the information on this like right now. It is the internet age for god's sake! Instant gratification of our (information) needs! ;)


Ars superior est vita hominum.

 

"We pop out and come into the world and music is there. We didn't invent it - it's all organised in the atmosphere by divinity or whatever. It's a miracle." - John Williams-

 

I think music is a stream of some kind. It could be blood. It could be water. It could be ether. Whatever it is it seems to be a living, organic force that’s in motion, that serves humanity and is part of humanity and part of what describes us as humans. We sing, play, dance, all the things that we do. And there is a vibrant and great literature we have been given. ... As musicians, we join the stream. We swim in the stream with all the other millions of music makers. It’s a life force, a strong one, surrounding us and we are part of it. -John Williams-


#808 KK.

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 03:30 PM

I wonder if the Wolf on Wall Street will get much of a score. I thought Scorecese preferred his own compiled soundtrack for films like that.

And SUH, there are a lot of great non-LOTR Shore scores! Check out The Fly, Ms. Doubtfire, M.Butterfly, Dead Ringers, The Departed, Soul of the Ultimate Nation (LotR extension), Looking for Richard, Eastern Promises, Hugo.

#809 Barnald

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 03:31 PM

Very true. If that is the reason, I don't see why Doug can't just come out and tell us. Surely NDA's wouldn't prohibit that?



#810 Incanus

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 03:32 PM

I wonder if the Wolf on Wall Street will get much of a score. I thought Scorecese preferred his own compiled soundtrack for films like that.

And SUH, there are a lot of great non-LOTR Shore scores! Check out The Fly, Ms. Doubtfire, M.Butterfly, Dead Ringers, The Departed, Soul of the Ultimate Nation (LotR extension), Looking for Richard, Eastern Promises, Hugo.

Yeah that's a pretty good list KK. I would also add Dogma, Silence of the Lambs, A History of Violence (part classic suspense Shore score and part LotR light) and Aviator.


Ars superior est vita hominum.

 

"We pop out and come into the world and music is there. We didn't invent it - it's all organised in the atmosphere by divinity or whatever. It's a miracle." - John Williams-

 

I think music is a stream of some kind. It could be blood. It could be water. It could be ether. Whatever it is it seems to be a living, organic force that’s in motion, that serves humanity and is part of humanity and part of what describes us as humans. We sing, play, dance, all the things that we do. And there is a vibrant and great literature we have been given. ... As musicians, we join the stream. We swim in the stream with all the other millions of music makers. It’s a life force, a strong one, surrounding us and we are part of it. -John Williams-


#811 Sharky

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 03:36 PM

Personally I've got a softspot for THE BROOD, NAKED LUNCH and SCANNERS, although I'd say DEAD RINGERS is his masterpiece.

#812 KK.

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 03:38 PM

Yes I forgot about those Incanus. All great stuff.

And Dead Ringers is simply sublime!

#813 SafeUnderHill

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 03:39 PM


Its the best reason I've heard so far, before we have official word.

Isn't it awful how we don't have the information on this like right now. It is the internet age for god's sake! Instant gratification of our (information) needs! ;)

I'm not demanding to know, I just enjoy speculating and am looking forwards to getting answers (which I'm pretty sure we'll get).
I love hindsight.

BloodBoal "In any case, I like what I'm hearing about Azog. All reviews (even the bad ones) mention him as an awesome villain. Can't wait to see him (although I'm not really happy with the fact that it seems the whole "undead" business was true)."

Early AUJ review "Special attention must be given to the musical score of the film, both for original pieces (such as Misty Mountains, the haunting yet stirring theme for the Dwarves) and incorporation of the themes from Lord of the Rings. The musical cues go a long way to reinforce the connection I mentioned above. While the Misty Mountains theme pervades the film, there are also ties to the Shire, the Ring and even a heroic bit of music that I wont spoil here, but will come as a welcome surprise. "
Once "I wonder what part he's talking about." gkgyver "Probably the eagles." Once "Oh right!"

#814 Incanus

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 03:42 PM

Yes I forgot about those Incanus. All great stuff.

And Dead Ringers is simply sublime!

I have to check it out then!


Ars superior est vita hominum.

 

"We pop out and come into the world and music is there. We didn't invent it - it's all organised in the atmosphere by divinity or whatever. It's a miracle." - John Williams-

 

I think music is a stream of some kind. It could be blood. It could be water. It could be ether. Whatever it is it seems to be a living, organic force that’s in motion, that serves humanity and is part of humanity and part of what describes us as humans. We sing, play, dance, all the things that we do. And there is a vibrant and great literature we have been given. ... As musicians, we join the stream. We swim in the stream with all the other millions of music makers. It’s a life force, a strong one, surrounding us and we are part of it. -John Williams-


#815 SafeUnderHill

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 03:43 PM

I wonder if the Wolf on Wall Street will get much of a score. I thought Scorecese preferred his own compiled soundtrack for films like that.

And SUH, there are a lot of great non-LOTR Shore scores! Check out The Fly, Ms. Doubtfire, M.Butterfly, Dead Ringers, The Departed, Soul of the Ultimate Nation (LotR extension), Looking for Richard, Eastern Promises, Hugo.


I've seen Eastern promises and it has a really good theme, but for about 2/3 of the film it seems that is the only music used. There is different music near the end but nothing I remember standing out or being noticeably thematic. Don't get me wrong I enjoyed the music and the film.

I meant was there scores that have the complexity of LOTR scores, ok maybe not that complex, but with several themes. I think Hugo is white thematic but ill have to listen to all his scores. Ultimate Nation is probably the next one I'll check out, it seems exciting.
I love hindsight.

BloodBoal "In any case, I like what I'm hearing about Azog. All reviews (even the bad ones) mention him as an awesome villain. Can't wait to see him (although I'm not really happy with the fact that it seems the whole "undead" business was true)."

Early AUJ review "Special attention must be given to the musical score of the film, both for original pieces (such as Misty Mountains, the haunting yet stirring theme for the Dwarves) and incorporation of the themes from Lord of the Rings. The musical cues go a long way to reinforce the connection I mentioned above. While the Misty Mountains theme pervades the film, there are also ties to the Shire, the Ring and even a heroic bit of music that I wont spoil here, but will come as a welcome surprise. "
Once "I wonder what part he's talking about." gkgyver "Probably the eagles." Once "Oh right!"

#816 Incanus

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 03:49 PM

 

I wonder if the Wolf on Wall Street will get much of a score. I thought Scorecese preferred his own compiled soundtrack for films like that.

And SUH, there are a lot of great non-LOTR Shore scores! Check out The Fly, Ms. Doubtfire, M.Butterfly, Dead Ringers, The Departed, Soul of the Ultimate Nation (LotR extension), Looking for Richard, Eastern Promises, Hugo.


I've seen Eastern promises and it has a really good theme, but for about 2/3 of the film it seems that is the only music used. There is different music near the end but nothing I remember standing out or being noticeably thematic. Don't get me wrong I enjoyed the music and the film.

I meant was there scores that have the complexity of LOTR scores, ok maybe not that complex, but with several themes. I think Hugo is white thematic but ill have to listen to all his scores. Ultimate Nation is probably the next one I'll check out, it seems exciting.

 

Shore isn't usually the most thematic of composers. LotR scores are perhaps his most thematically focused and extrovert work to date and rather an exception in his ouvre outside his few brighter comedies and dramas. That doesn't mean that his music doesn't have themes, but they are of a bit less hummable kind. This of course doesn't make his work for e.g. Looking for Richard or Dogma or Soul of the Ultimate Nation any less great.


Ars superior est vita hominum.

 

"We pop out and come into the world and music is there. We didn't invent it - it's all organised in the atmosphere by divinity or whatever. It's a miracle." - John Williams-

 

I think music is a stream of some kind. It could be blood. It could be water. It could be ether. Whatever it is it seems to be a living, organic force that’s in motion, that serves humanity and is part of humanity and part of what describes us as humans. We sing, play, dance, all the things that we do. And there is a vibrant and great literature we have been given. ... As musicians, we join the stream. We swim in the stream with all the other millions of music makers. It’s a life force, a strong one, surrounding us and we are part of it. -John Williams-


#817 Doug Adams

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 04:06 PM

He's not scoring Wolf of Wall Street and he's completely and utterly healthy. The schedule--and travel--simply worked better with a few tasks divvied up. The NZ performance is great and the music is entirely Shore's, don't sweat it. There's no news because people are ... you know ... working!

This score is going to knock everyone's socks off; it's *phenomenal*. But don't look for details for a while yet. Work comes first, promotion after. The play's the thing. :)

-The Horse

#818 Incanus

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 04:10 PM

He's not scoring Wolf of Wall Street and he's completely and utterly healthy. The schedule--and travel--simply worked better with a few tasks divvied up. The NZ performance is great and the music is entirely Shore's, don't sweat it. There's no news because people are ... you know ... working!

This score is going to knock everyone's socks off; it's *phenomenal*. But don't look for details for a while yet. Work comes first, promotion after. The play's the thing. :)

-The Horse

Thank you very much for this info Doug! That clears things up quite a bit. And colour me truly excited for DoS now!

 

Heh I see the horse moniker stuck then. ;)


Ars superior est vita hominum.

 

"We pop out and come into the world and music is there. We didn't invent it - it's all organised in the atmosphere by divinity or whatever. It's a miracle." - John Williams-

 

I think music is a stream of some kind. It could be blood. It could be water. It could be ether. Whatever it is it seems to be a living, organic force that’s in motion, that serves humanity and is part of humanity and part of what describes us as humans. We sing, play, dance, all the things that we do. And there is a vibrant and great literature we have been given. ... As musicians, we join the stream. We swim in the stream with all the other millions of music makers. It’s a life force, a strong one, surrounding us and we are part of it. -John Williams-


#819 SafeUnderHill

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 04:16 PM

Yay we got clarification sooner than I was expecting!

Hurrah for Shores health!
I love hindsight.

BloodBoal "In any case, I like what I'm hearing about Azog. All reviews (even the bad ones) mention him as an awesome villain. Can't wait to see him (although I'm not really happy with the fact that it seems the whole "undead" business was true)."

Early AUJ review "Special attention must be given to the musical score of the film, both for original pieces (such as Misty Mountains, the haunting yet stirring theme for the Dwarves) and incorporation of the themes from Lord of the Rings. The musical cues go a long way to reinforce the connection I mentioned above. While the Misty Mountains theme pervades the film, there are also ties to the Shire, the Ring and even a heroic bit of music that I wont spoil here, but will come as a welcome surprise. "
Once "I wonder what part he's talking about." gkgyver "Probably the eagles." Once "Oh right!"

#820 BloodBoal

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 04:17 PM

You thought he was dying or what?


ImBirdman_zps15b4c1eb.png


#821 SafeUnderHill

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 04:19 PM

This score is going to knock everyone's socks off; it's *phenomenal*. But don't look for details for a while yet. Work comes first, promotion after. The play's the thing. :)


Thank you Doug, we needed a quote like this!

You thought he was dying or what?


There were fears he is not well, I am pleased he is doing well.
I love hindsight.

BloodBoal "In any case, I like what I'm hearing about Azog. All reviews (even the bad ones) mention him as an awesome villain. Can't wait to see him (although I'm not really happy with the fact that it seems the whole "undead" business was true)."

Early AUJ review "Special attention must be given to the musical score of the film, both for original pieces (such as Misty Mountains, the haunting yet stirring theme for the Dwarves) and incorporation of the themes from Lord of the Rings. The musical cues go a long way to reinforce the connection I mentioned above. While the Misty Mountains theme pervades the film, there are also ties to the Shire, the Ring and even a heroic bit of music that I wont spoil here, but will come as a welcome surprise. "
Once "I wonder what part he's talking about." gkgyver "Probably the eagles." Once "Oh right!"

#822 BloodBoal

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 04:23 PM

You thought he was dying or what?


There were fears he is not well, I am pleased he is doing well.

 

It was never suggested he was ill! You're the one who came up with that theory! You're the one to blame!


ImBirdman_zps15b4c1eb.png


#823 Stefancos

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 04:30 PM

Doug? What is Shore working on?

This is a highly unusual working practice for Shore, you gotta admit.

sinterklaas-in-haren_zpsed8aec4b.jpg


#824 SafeUnderHill

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 04:32 PM

Haha I don't mean to shift the blame...

I still think it might be health reasons


But I believe Stefancos suggested the idea. He is one of the the JW Fan members I have the most respect for and so thought he may have been onto something.
I love hindsight.

BloodBoal "In any case, I like what I'm hearing about Azog. All reviews (even the bad ones) mention him as an awesome villain. Can't wait to see him (although I'm not really happy with the fact that it seems the whole "undead" business was true)."

Early AUJ review "Special attention must be given to the musical score of the film, both for original pieces (such as Misty Mountains, the haunting yet stirring theme for the Dwarves) and incorporation of the themes from Lord of the Rings. The musical cues go a long way to reinforce the connection I mentioned above. While the Misty Mountains theme pervades the film, there are also ties to the Shire, the Ring and even a heroic bit of music that I wont spoil here, but will come as a welcome surprise. "
Once "I wonder what part he's talking about." gkgyver "Probably the eagles." Once "Oh right!"

#825 BloodBoal

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 04:33 PM

But I believe Stefancos suggested the idea. He is one of the the JW Fan members I have the most respect for.

 

Hahahaha!


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#826 Stefancos

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 04:40 PM

And you are wise to have that respect.

This has happened before. With Goldsmith for example when he had cancer.

People "in the know" saying Goldsmith was fine, you don't have to worry. Sure you can buy tickets to his 75th birthday concert.

Few months later he was dead, and those "in the know" admitting they lied to protect the Maestro's privacy etc etc...

Doug already stated he signed an NDA, meaning if something was wrong he would not be able to tell us.

But ever since Pope's contribution was announced all what was said was "don't worry, it's all good, it's all normal" even though for Howard Shore, it isnt.

sinterklaas-in-haren_zpsed8aec4b.jpg


#827 BloodBoal

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 04:42 PM

Then surely, Zimmer must have thousands of diseases, with all the army of composers/orchestrators working on each of his scores.


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#828 Jay

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 04:43 PM

Hahaha, good one SUH.

#829 gkgyver

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 04:44 PM

He's not scoring Wolf of Wall Street and he's completely and utterly healthy. The schedule--and travel--simply worked better with a few tasks divvied up. The NZ performance is great and the music is entirely Shore's, don't sweat it. There's no news because people are ... you know ... working!This score is going to knock everyone's socks off; it's *phenomenal*. But don't look for details for a while yet. Work comes first, promotion after. The play's the thing. :)-The Horse


Thank you, I was starting to get worried about his health!

But you saying the score is phenomenal doesn't exactly make waiting easier. Dammit, let Christmas come soon!

"You think they wear those tight-fitting clothes just so some other bride can say 'Gee your hips look succulent'? The good-looking ones know we're looking, they love us to be looking, and god bless 'em, they're carrying the rest of their sex!" - Al Bundy


#830 Jay

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 04:45 PM

Stefan, give it a rest.

#831 gkgyver

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 04:47 PM

But I believe Stefancos suggested the idea. He is one of the the JW Fan members I have the most respect for.

 Hahahaha!

Come on, let him be, he will find out soon enough.

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#832 Stefancos

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 04:48 PM

Hahaha, good one SUH.
 

 

That's a bit harsh!

 

A few months ago you kept saying "I LOVE YOU STEFAN!"

 

61C200E0-DFF7-4ABC-8A68-20987A5AAE5A-377


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#833 Jay

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 04:48 PM


Doug, he's not scoring Wolf of Wall Street at all, or he's not scoring it right now ?

#834 Stefancos

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 04:52 PM

Stefan, give it a rest.

 

Wait? pages and pages of fanboy speculation and you are telling me to shut up?

 

Must have hit pretty close to the mark to get you all riled up like that.



Ooohh you even removed that part after first editing it because you screwed up my name. Something is DEFINITELY going on here!

I remember people commenting when they saw pics of Shore last year. 6b words, over and over again, just 6 words.

 

"Don't you think he looks tired?"


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#835 Jay

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 04:54 PM

Eye roll

#836 Stefancos

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 04:57 PM

LOL

 

SafeUnderHill.

I don't have any connection or knowledge to Shore like Doug. I was just speculating.

I certainly hope Doug is right and he is healthy and we are are needlessly nitpicking.

 

But no one can't admit that this isn't just a bit unusual; for Howard Shore. The man who wrote 3 massive scores under huge pressure using only a pencil.


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#837 BloodBoal

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 05:09 PM

I certainly hope Doug is right and he is healthy and we are are needlessly nitpicking.

 

What? Doug is sick? Oh, no! I hope he recovers quickly!


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#838 gkgyver

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 05:11 PM

That doesn't mean you should push a man to the point of complete exhaustion. Again. 10 years later when he's 60+.

Jackson constantly spoke about trying to not put him into that position again during the production of LotR. Never worked.
And AUJ is the last indicator that such a dividing of duties is not the worst decision.

"You think they wear those tight-fitting clothes just so some other bride can say 'Gee your hips look succulent'? The good-looking ones know we're looking, they love us to be looking, and god bless 'em, they're carrying the rest of their sex!" - Al Bundy


#839 Stefancos

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 05:12 PM

Don't be so gullible.

 

Doug Adams was bitten by a NZ Nelson Cave Spiderspider and died a horrible, convulsive death.


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#840 Jim Ware

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 05:15 PM

But no one can't admit that this isn't just a bit unusual; for Howard Shore. The man who wrote 3 massive scores under huge pressure using only a pencil.

 

Ten years ago!  I'm sure it was an exhausting experience then and he would not necessarily want to repeat it now.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Score Talk, 2013 Scores, The Hobbit, Howard Shore, Tolkien

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