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[FILM] Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country - Nicholas Meyer (1991)


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#41 Stefancos

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 10:48 PM

The scene where the Starfleet commanders present their plan to rescue Kirk and McCoy to the president was interesting. It makes the whole situation a bit more ambiguous: did they really want to save Kirk and McCoy, or did they plan to actually pretend this was an operation to save them, when in fact they intended to kill them? If they did intend to save them, then doesn’t that mean that the conspirators did not all agree about what to do with Kirk and McCoy? Chang clearly wants them dead, yet he’s working with colonel Cartwright and co who wanted to save Kirk and McCoy. This scene is also an opportunity to show the conspirators a bit more (in the theatrical cut, the Romulan ambassador has only one line!).

 

 

Good point. Though this scene does create issues if you judge it against the larger framework of the franchise.

While it's plausible that the Romulan Ambaddesor might be called upon to attend a meeting to discuss the assassination of the Klingon Chancelor, it is completely impossible that Starfleet would discuss a rescue operation in front of him. Throughout the entire Trek history the Federation and the Romulan empire have been in state of (cold) war.

 

Interestingly  the films barely ever feature the Romulans. Trek 6 gives us the first and only proper pointed eared looking Romulan.


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#42 Eblobulator

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 11:21 PM

Ya the Romulans were one race I wish had A LOT more screen time, not only in the TOS films but in TNG (tv).


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Kathryn Janeway: "Time travel. Since my first day on the job as a Starfleet Captain I swore I'd never let myself get caught in one of these godforsaken paradoxes - the future is the past, the past is the future, it all gives me a headache."
 

#43 Hedji

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 11:23 PM

Well, not a bad review. But you totally missed the ending, where Kirk, overcome with grief over the fact that Starfleet will force him to part with his beloved ship decided to take metters into his own hands and have Chekov fly her into the nearest star!
 
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This got a LOL outta me. Well done! And I share your reaction to the sign off at the end. It chokes me up, every single time.

#44 Wojo

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 11:34 PM

Ya the Romulans were one race I wish had A LOT more screen time, not only in the TOS films but in TNG (tv).

That's one of the many unfortunate aspects of Nemesis. By the time the Romulans get a big screen appearance (other than the few at Amargosa in Generations), they're pushed aside in favor of a newly invented race with a cute back story.

#45 Drax

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 12:24 AM

This movie is better than everything.

#46 publicist

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 08:12 AM

Up to that point the only ST movie i could accept as good movie (TWOK and the whale movie i hadn't seen yet). Side note: in both cases writer/director Meyer was burdened with a cut budget and couldn't afford Goldsmith whom he initially wanted, and while both Horner and Eidelman were inspired choices it's the one thing we should all mourn - that JG couldn't handle the whole franchise all by himself. I'm sure it would have been a marvellous musical journey up to NEMESIS.


You wouldn't see a subtle plan if it painted itself purple and danced naked on top of a harpsichord, singing "Subtle Plans Are Here Again."

#47 Drax

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 08:27 AM

If he did all of them, we would've missed out on Horner's masterpieces. To me, TWOK and TSFS are his finest achievements.

#48 BloodBoal

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 08:39 AM

Horner's scores are fine, but yeah, I would have preferred Goldsmith to score TVH and TUC. Especially the latter.


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#49 publicist

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 08:47 AM

If he did all of them, we would've missed out on Horner's masterpieces. To me, TWOK and TSFS are his finest achievements.

 

Horner would have done fine without ST - and WRATH OF KHAN (and to a lesser extent TSFS) came in Goldsmith's banner years so i expect both would have eclipsed Horner, fine as these are.


You wouldn't see a subtle plan if it painted itself purple and danced naked on top of a harpsichord, singing "Subtle Plans Are Here Again."

#50 Drax

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 10:29 AM

I imagine a score for TVH like Escape from the Planet of the Apes. Full of contemporary funk.

#51 Eblobulator

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 05:34 PM

I imagine a score for TVH like Escape from the Planet of the Apes. Full of contemporary funk.

 

In my humble opinion The Voyage Home is a fun score and it pays to A LOT of homage from The Original Series music especially with the unused bits for "In San Francisco".  I think too many people never gave the score a chance at first until Intrada released the complete version.


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Kathryn Janeway: "Time travel. Since my first day on the job as a Starfleet Captain I swore I'd never let myself get caught in one of these godforsaken paradoxes - the future is the past, the past is the future, it all gives me a headache."
 

#52 Strangways

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 11:18 PM

I always was keen on the main theme for Voyage Home and tracks like The Whaler ("Full powered descent, Mr Sulu") but the intrada release for sure made me reappraise it...the addition of "I Hate You" alone...well, bingo.


a5229470-c28e-44c1-ab35-eabd88841361_zps

 

"Another thing that made a lasting impression on me was the character relationships, especially the triangle of Kirk, Bones and Spock. I saw it as a very classic struggle between decision, passion and wisdom. You know, these three elements battling and ultimately culminating almost presidentially in Kirk having to make a decision, as urged passionately by Bones and dispassionately by Spock. That pattern clearly interested me."

 

Harve Bennett


#53 Stefancos

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Posted 08 December 2014 - 10:52 AM

BB, i assume you will also be rewatching the two JJ films?

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#54 BloodBoal

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Posted 08 December 2014 - 11:04 AM

Possibly, yes.


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#55 Stefancos

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Posted 08 December 2014 - 11:06 AM

Will be interesting to see how you view the new cast now that you know the original one.

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#56 Richard

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Posted 08 December 2014 - 04:58 PM

I imagine a score for TVH like Escape from the Planet of the Apes. Full of contemporary funk.

 

The score for "EFTPOTA" pisses all over "TVH"...from a very great height!!!!!



#57 Drax

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Posted 09 December 2014 - 04:10 AM

I meant if Goldsmith had scored TVH, it might have had similar tone and texture to Escape From...

#58 Richard

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 08:13 PM

Oh! Er...granted, Drax, gran...ted, but what I posted still stands...It would have been more playful, and have much greater thematic unity.

Rosenman's "TVH" is all over the place.



#59 Faleel

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Posted 31 December 2014 - 07:12 PM

Rosenman's "TVH" is all over the place.

Yes and No.


well my words is made of fire time to burn

Among all the things I have done in my short and pitiful life, becoming an inside joke on JWFAN is the one I'm the least proud of.

The additional passage was interesting but not really something I would consider absolutely essential.


#60 BloodBoal

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Posted 27 February 2015 - 09:49 PM

Final thoughts on the film (after having seen all 10 Star Trek films): Thankfully, Meier provided a fantastic send-off for the TOS cast after the rather parodic TFF. The film had it all: a solid script, great cinematography, a good score, fine acting, and a badass villain with General Chang (probably the third best villain in the films after Khan and the Borg Queen). Once again, Meier proved that he was the king of the Star Trek films: the three he worked on are simply the best three with the TOS cast! This film should have definitely been the last one with captain Kirk! Bah, let’s just pretend this was his last appearance...


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#61 Wojo

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Posted 28 February 2015 - 07:19 AM

Meier created Civilization. Meyer directed two of the best Star Trek films.

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#62 BloodBoal

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Posted 28 February 2015 - 08:44 AM

I meant exactly what I meant, bro!

 

http://www.theguardi...rview-starships

 

“When I grew up, I loved Star Trek and Star Wars and all those inspirational sci-fi things,” he says. “I remember coming home and watching the original Star Trek series every Friday. And I’ve never had the chance to actually make a science fiction game.”

 

“My inspiration was almost like a Star Trek episode: you’ll arrive at a planet, this is the problem, and you’ve got to figure out how to solve it. And when you figure out the solution, you’re read to move on to the next adventure.”

Pray for any red-shirted crew members on your starships, then. Meier says that it’s impossible to avoid echoes of iconic space stories like Star Wars and Star Trek when making this kind of game, but sees the shared knowledge from those and other science fiction as beneficial. While Civilization drew on players’ knowledge of history – their understanding of gunpowder, the wheel, electricity and other advances – Starships can draw on science fiction concepts, from shields and lasers to cloaking technology.

 

“We’ve added our own twists,” he says. “One thing that was missing from Star Trek and Star Wars was, what are the tactics involved in fighting starships, and how can we make that interesting?” Negotiating the various environments – including hiding behind asteroids for protection – will, according to Meier, be a challenge to relish.


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#63 Wojo

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Posted 28 February 2015 - 01:47 PM

I gave up on Sid Meier games, I'm not interested in V, Beyond Earth, or Starships.

#64 Strangways

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Posted 01 March 2015 - 08:53 PM

Watched VI earlier and it's still one of the best. Naturally onus is on Spock, from his talk with Kirk at Starfleet to even his reaction Chekov's "All uniforms?"

 

Little things I somehow have missed on several viewings I noticed this time round, the Starfleet officer who stays behind at the meeting (you see her just off to Kirk's right and disappears when it cuts to "Let them die!") or the Excelsior's plaque during the opening scene. Little things but it's the little details that set Meyer's films apart from the rest. The schematics, stickers, fire extinguishers and so forth on corridor walls, kitchens, the bridge etc

Nothing changes though. The dinner scene, Kirk and McCoy's little talk in the cots ("One day...one night, Kobyashi Maru!") culminating with "What's wrong you?"

"Still think we're finished?"

"More than ever!"

The music chimed perfectly with the shot of Kirk and co shuffling across the wastelands of Rura Penthe.

The final couple of scenes were particularly affecting. There was always something about seeing everyone applaud Kirk (and co) and then the final scene itself. That was a perfect way to end.

--

 

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This is the final cruise of the Starship Enterprise under my command. This ship and her history will shortly become the care of another crew. To them and their posterity will we commit our future. They will continue the voyages we have begun and journey to all the undiscovered countries, boldly going where no man, where no one, ...has gone before.


a5229470-c28e-44c1-ab35-eabd88841361_zps

 

"Another thing that made a lasting impression on me was the character relationships, especially the triangle of Kirk, Bones and Spock. I saw it as a very classic struggle between decision, passion and wisdom. You know, these three elements battling and ultimately culminating almost presidentially in Kirk having to make a decision, as urged passionately by Bones and dispassionately by Spock. That pattern clearly interested me."

 

Harve Bennett


#65 E.T. and Elliot

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Posted 01 March 2015 - 09:00 PM

Star Trek is better than everything.



#66 Stefancos

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Posted 01 March 2015 - 09:01 PM

The starfleet officer (Valeris?) standing in the corner in the dark was invisible on home video before the DVD era.

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#67 Strangways

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Posted 01 March 2015 - 11:43 PM

I don't think it's Valeris, more some kind of usher. But the DVD does add some bits, or rather one such as showing the conspirators after Valeris reveals them in her meld (an uncomfortable scene to watch)

 

Just see her sat to the right of the Starfleet deltas

 

http://movies.trekco...ch1/tuc0070.jpg

 

Someone said elsewhere about Kim Cattrall playing Saavik in TWOK (unless I misread), a 1982 era Cattrall would've been pretty fine as Saavik.


a5229470-c28e-44c1-ab35-eabd88841361_zps

 

"Another thing that made a lasting impression on me was the character relationships, especially the triangle of Kirk, Bones and Spock. I saw it as a very classic struggle between decision, passion and wisdom. You know, these three elements battling and ultimately culminating almost presidentially in Kirk having to make a decision, as urged passionately by Bones and dispassionately by Spock. That pattern clearly interested me."

 

Harve Bennett


#68 E.T. and Elliot

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Posted 01 March 2015 - 11:51 PM

I didn't like the mind-meld scene on the DVD version.



#69 Drax

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 12:10 AM

I prefer the theatrical version. I need not be reminded who these people are so in ya face.

#70 E.T. and Elliot

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 12:12 AM

I don't really get the love for the Colonel West scene, either. In fact, I prefer the theatrical versions of all the films.



#71 Stefancos

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 12:56 AM

I don't think it's Valeris, more some kind of usher. But the DVD does add some bits, or rather one such as showing the conspirators after Valeris reveals them in her meld (an uncomfortable scene to watch)

 

Just see her sat to the right of the Starfleet deltas

 

http://movies.trekco...ch1/tuc0070.jpg

 

Someone said elsewhere about Kim Cattrall playing Saavik in TWOK (unless I misread), a 1982 era Cattrall would've been pretty fine as Saavik.

 

I think it actually is Valeris. It would explain the line she has much later in the film:

 

Saving Starfleet. Klingons cannot be trusted. Sir, ...you said so yourself. They killed your son. Did you not wish Gorkon dead? 'Let them die.' you said. Did I misinterpret you? ...And you were right. They conspired with us to assassinate their own Chancellor. How trustworthy can they be?

 

 

How could she have heard Kirk say that if she wasnt there?

 

I'm sure the person standing there isnt Kim Cattrall. Since the character isnt actually visible and has no lines. But I do believe it is supposed to be Valeris.


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#72 Strangways

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 12:56 AM

Good point. Never thought about the let them die line, figured she interpreted Kirk's log (before she came into his cabin) a certain way.


a5229470-c28e-44c1-ab35-eabd88841361_zps

 

"Another thing that made a lasting impression on me was the character relationships, especially the triangle of Kirk, Bones and Spock. I saw it as a very classic struggle between decision, passion and wisdom. You know, these three elements battling and ultimately culminating almost presidentially in Kirk having to make a decision, as urged passionately by Bones and dispassionately by Spock. That pattern clearly interested me."

 

Harve Bennett





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