ocelot 508 Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 The CD has around 40 + minutes of extra material mostly from the begining of the movie, or was it the end, begining I think. Anyway, it does exist and it was about to be released very early on but Lucasfilm said no to it. Not Sony. Anyway, don't say I don't ever have good info for you guys. It was completely finished and put together, so it's not like it was in some stage of development. I was contacted by someone who heard it at their offices but couldn't get a hold of it, and for some odd reason he thought I would have it and wanted to burn a copy from me.... I have no clue why people think i would have access to certain things..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,326 Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 He was at THEIR offices AND contacted YOU!?! Ocelot, who are you???----------------Alex Cremers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewdog1 50 Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 A god-like person apparently. Now use your powers for good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocelot 508 Posted May 27, 2003 Author Share Posted May 27, 2003 uuuummm... no no no, HE was at the offices he works at, and he heard the CD there from one of the album's producer. The producer said that they wanted to realease it but they were told no can do by Lucasfilm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fommes 153 Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 ****!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocelot 508 Posted May 27, 2003 Author Share Posted May 27, 2003 For once i agree with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker 5 Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Well until one of us actually hears this thing, why don't we just agree that the 2 CD edition of Attack of the Clones might exist. I'm sure George Lucas probably has it in his private collection. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelzter 0 Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 If it really does exist, somehow has got to be able to get a hold of it!! It could hold all the MAGNIFICENT unreleased cues, in their pure form!!--Pelzter, who can't stop shaking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmo Lewis 6 Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Well until one of us actually hears this thing, why don't we just agree that the 2 CD edition of Attack of the Clones might exist. I'm sure George Lucas probably has it in his private collection. Yes, I bet he keeps it right beside the original unaltered trilogy DVDs and the original Naboo battle score. That man is evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishCal24 0 Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 If it really does exist, somehow has got to be able to get a hold of it!! It could hold all the MAGNIFICENT unreleased cues, in their pure form!!Or it could be the hatchet job version of the score as heard in the movie like the TPM Ultimate Edition. If that's the case, Lucasfilm can keep it as far as I'm concerned. Ocelot did your source tell you one way or the other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,626 Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Then Ocelot's quest shall be that.You must somehow hoax that "person who heard it" to get the precious disks out of the "office" long enough for you to "see it" and "borrow it for 5 minutes".K.M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsawruk 0 Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 If it really does exist, somehow has got to be able to get a hold of it!! It could hold all the MAGNIFICENT unreleased cues, in their pure form!!It's simple. All we have to do is break into George Lucas' house... What's so stressful about that? - Cartman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UCFKevin 0 Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Wow.....this is......interesting. Very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris ChrusherComix 46 Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Did any of you doubt the existance of a 2 CD set? The album producers and studio insiders have complete sets of every score that they were involved in (if they want it, that is). The better question that needs answering is WHY does Lucas say no to it's release? When the DVD was released late last year, one would think that the 2 CD set would have been great to release along side of it.Probably the reason is two-fold. Here are my guesses:1. Lucas knows that the unaltered score exposes his shotty sound editing and story pacing in AOTC. 2. He probably is still sore at us Star Wars music / film music / John Williams fans that threw the petitions over TPM and AOTC. I fully and completely support those petitions, but I'm betting Lucas holds us against us.More on my 1st guess: Note how Williams always says that Spielberg is a musical director-- that he understands music and how it can enhance the scene on the screen when used correctly. Compare how Spielberg will edit HUGE scenes IN his films AROUND Williams music. CE3K, E.T., A.I., and likely all the others. The only Spielberg film that I have found where the music was ruined in the film is in The Lost World (the two best cues (IMO) on the CD were pretty much removed from the film, which is a travesty, but at least it was only a one-time thing).Then compare how Lucas will slice music to absolute ribbons, loop it and track it EVEN IF THE MUSIC FITS THE SCENE PERFECTLY! Whoever edits the music in the prequels doesn't understand what the timing of a theme at ALL.Most of us heard it when 1st watching the film, and for those who didn't, John Takis pointed out how music is misplaced and misused time and time again. Just look at what I condsider to be the WORST examples of many that I have noticed while extracting the music from the DVD:1. The crappy loops of the love theme during the meadow sequence...2. The DOTF reprise of Anakin on the Speeder where the tacked-on "TPM-ending" ruined the album version's effect...3. The best cue in the film (IMO), where Anakin loses control was edited correctly. But when they fade to Yoda & Mace discussing the disturbance in the Force, the music was looped at the incorrect moment so that Vader's theme was completely misplaced. No longer does it appear where Yoda is talking bout that "Young Skywalker is in pain...", it now appears where Obi-Wan is communicating. The music is back on pace for when Anakin returns to the homestead with his mother's body... but the effect of the middle portion of the scene was ruined.4. The utter massacre of the Conveyor Belt sequence (Yoda's Theme???), and the most tragic...5. THE ENTIRE ENDING FROM THE HUGE BATTLE ON TO RIGHT BEFORE THE WEDDING... the music is garbled nonsense with no musical flow whatsoever! One can pick on TPM's ending... but that was a masterwork of music editing compared to AOTC!!!!Regardless, I'll buy the official set when it comes out. But until then, I'll enjoy my DVD extracts only in spite of Lucas (because the sound effects and edits make them close to unlistenable). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocelot 508 Posted May 28, 2003 Author Share Posted May 28, 2003 Good thoughts my man. Those are exactly the problems I have with the editing! OK, I will try and find out some more things about the 2 CD. Any thoughts of what you want me to ask? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda Longbottom 0 Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 I so much agree with you, Chris ChrusherComix! But Something is completely wrong here. Since John Williams IS the author of the music used in the Episode 1 and 2, isn't he automatically the OWNER of all the rights and so only he can decide when or if ever any complete version will be released? Seems to me someone is playing with John Williams' toys; but these toys don't belong to this SOMEONE...I maybe wrong. I understand that once you create something, it's no longer yours as long as George Lucas is around the corner...Roman.-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Good thoughts my man. Those are exactly the problems I have with the editing! OK, I will try and find out some more things about the 2 CD. Any thoughts of what you want me to ask?I think that ANY serious and loving Williams fan would have a problem with those music edits... Well, dear Ocelot, try to ask if they will eventually release this 2-cd set sometimes in the future! And try to say that ALL Williams fans want to hear the music the way it was composed and recorded originally by John Williams himself. Lord Maurizio Rozsa "Violin Concerto" op.24 (Heifetz) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent B 337 Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Man if Sony does have the 2 disc set of AOTC WTF doesnt Lucas let them release it? I am sure they want to release it and they probably want to even more so since they most likely got the petition for the 2 disc set...but IMHO I would rather have an Ultimate Edition AOTC 2 disc set like the TPM...the music that was taken directly from the film...cause alot of the unedited stuff would not appeal to me....like the OST of On The Conveyor Belt, I REALLY hated it, I thought it would be the film version of On The Conveyor Belt...and I know at least a few other people who agree with me, but I wont' name names. But this is my $.02 worth.Trent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin 2 Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Sounds like a marketing ploy. He's just making us want it more. Justin -Who knows Lucas is an evil Genius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker 5 Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Since John Williams IS the author of the music used in the Episode 1 and 2, isn't he automatically the OWNER of all the rights and so only he can decide when or if ever any complete version will be released?Not at all. Williams is commisioned by Lucasfilm to write these scores. They hold the rights. He does not.IMHO I would rather have an Ultimate Edition AOTC 2 disc set like the TPM...the music that was taken directly from the film...cause alot of the unedited stuff would not appeal to me....like the OST of On The Conveyor Belt, I REALLY hated it, I thought it would be the film version of On The Conveyor Belt...and I know at least a few other people who agree with me, but I wont' name names. But this is my $.02 worth.You can't be serious, can you? The music edits in that scene are ridiculously bad. I did student films in high school with better music editing than that trash. With that film, the filmmakers showed a total disregard for the music, and you want to hear it? It will not be listenable. It would drive any person with even limited knowlege of music crazy, with it's looped edits and jarring transitions.Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam 1 Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Amen- Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,326 Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 I actually enjoy CD 2 from TPM very much. I consider it listenable. But I agree that it feels more like little cues glued together then listen to complete whole tracks. Perhaps, dare I say it, Williams composed it that way. :roll: PS. See how more nuanced you can write when assuming that cues and tracks are not exactly the same. It surely would make discussing here more easy.----------------Alex Cremers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam 1 Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 There's no question that the edits in the final battle are not Williams' doing. In fact he rescored the whoe thing once because of Lucas's edits and then Lucas re-edited the battle sequence yet again, leading to the horribly chopped up version that we hear in the movie and on the UE soundtrack.I still think there's a lot of great music on those 2 cds that I'm thankful for having and I'd rather have an UE than nothing. But, hopefully, in the future we can hear the music as it was intended, both for TPM and AOTC.- Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker 5 Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 I agree that it feels more like little cues glued together then listen to complete whole tracks. Perhaps, dare I say it, Williams composed it that way. :roll: You could say that......but you'd be wrong. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,326 Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Wrong about... what? :roll: EDIT: The first part of the quote or the composing part?----------------Alex Cremers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Andrade 1,262 Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Film composers don't own the music, studios do. A few years ago, when Williams became famous with Jaws, Star Wars and more, he had a lot of trouble to get the orchestral aprts available for concert performance -- at the time he began to conduct live more and more, wich eventually led him to the Boston Pops.As for Lucas holding the 2 cd set... that easy to understand. We all went for the single disc, and will buy the 2 disc set at a leter date. He gets twice the money this way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,326 Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Miguel wroteHe gets twice the money this way! As always. Hey, it's George!----------------Alex Cremers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesk 0 Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Lucas will release this 2-CD Edition whenever he pleases in the future and he feels that he could suck a little more money from the fans he got thanks to the brief flash of inspiration that he got at one time in his life, and thanks to the great help of Harrison Ford, John Williams, Steven Spielberg, Irvin Kershner, Paul Hirsch, Lawrence Kasdan, etc.When he does, he will insult again both Williams and his fans with his own crappy 'musical' interpretation of how Williams' music should be edited. Lucas is resented that people like Williams and Spielberg have had ups and downs, but they are still loved, and that people kind of like more Lucas because of his collaborations with them than for himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,326 Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 I'm no expert. People from offices don't call me. But I've have always known that AotC UE is coming our way. Sony will handle it. Oh yeah!----------------Alex Cremers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker 5 Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Wrong about... what? :roll:Wrong in thinking that the UE represents the way Williams intended the music to be used for The Phantom Menace.Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent B 337 Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Yes I am serious....I liked the AOTC music even if it was edited to ME it fit well with the scenes...Williams may have wanted new music for it, but I personally like it edited.Trent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker 5 Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Yes I am serious....I liked the AOTC music even if it was edited to ME it fit well with the scenes...Williams may have wanted new music for it, but I personally like it edited.You are entitled to your wildly unpopular opinion. And I have a feeling that if an expanded edition of Attack of the Clones ever is released, I think you will be in a very small minority of disapointed people.Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 though this thing exists, I could really care less.AOTC ws a score that I didn't care much for, and still don't. It had some good moments, but overall its a huge disappointment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miz 139 Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Hmm, though I would enjoy some of the unreleased cues, we all know that an album of ALL the music from AOTC would actually be horrible (well, the action cues would be).And I'm afraid I doubt the true validity of this news, mainly because...why have we not heard of it before? Yes, if it was one master copy under George Lucas' pillow I'd understand it's secrecy, but how come we didn't know about this for so long?It's not that I don't trust Ocelot, it's that I find this all a bit too vague, and quite appealing to us fans (so quite possibly a marketing ploy). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordat1@aol.com 0 Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 The CD has around 40 + minutes of extra material mostly from the begining of the movie, or was it the end, begining I think. Anyway, it does exist and it was about to be released very early on but Lucasfilm said no to it. Not Sony. Anyway, don't say I don't ever have good info for you guys. It was completely finished and put together, so it's not like it was in some stage of development. I was contacted by someone who heard it at their offices but couldn't get a hold of it, and for some odd reason he thought I would have it and wanted to burn a copy from me.... I have no clue why people think i would have access to certain things.....REALITY CHECK:This entire story smells like three day old fish.......FYI, does anyone here know who PRODUCED the original CD?John Williams and Ken Wannberg.neither of which would send this sort of message.Ford A. Thaxton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UCFKevin 0 Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Who said they did, Ford? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Ocelot said one of the producers of the CD told him.Stefancos- who finds this...puzzling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocelot 508 Posted May 29, 2003 Author Share Posted May 29, 2003 NO NO NO NO, NONE of the producers of the CD told me. Don't put words into my mouth already. This CD was listened to at a certain office of a magazine and I know 2 people there very well, one of who called me and asked if i had it. He told me what had transpired at the office and that it WAS going to be released at some point. They were told at the office that Lucasfilm was the one that stopped the 2 CD from being released. I'm NOT making any of this up. My friends there have never lied to me about anything before so I trust them AND you guys can take this with a grain of salt..... Nothing is written in stone unless it is coming from the main source which this isn't, however, the CD does exist. As a composer, and as composer and orchestrator that has worked with some people, I know that the producers, directors and composers on any film always have the full music done on 2 CDs anyway. They have it. It's there, and whether they release it or not is for them to decide. So Ford, no reality check needed and don't be so insulting in the future! It's not like I'm making this up, but since you don't know me, you might think it's a thing I do, who knows..... Think what you like! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris ChrusherComix 46 Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Yes I am serious....I liked the AOTC music even if it was edited to ME it fit well with the scenes...Williams may have wanted new music for it, but I personally like it edited.TrentTrent, I just made a 1 CDR of "JUST the unreleased music" (that we didn't already have via any official release or video games) from the DVD... and it is pretty much total garbled nonsense. Although it does add up to be around a good 70-80 minutes (This is counting the deleted scenes... which did have more unreleased music).Clearly, if they were to release the music "as it appered in the film", it would be the worst soundtrack ever released to the public ever. TPM's UE has some harsh edits... but that is an utter masterpiece to the edits foound in AOTC.As Neil said... a high schooler.... Nah... I'll say an emelentary schooler would edit the music better! At least they would destroy the music less.Whoever did that was not only unimaginitive, but they had NO respect for Williams compositions and the flow of his thematic material. Did they have to use that little "video game death" clip 3-4 times??? UGH!Now this shouldn't have happened. If I was Lucas, and the final scenes were unfinished by the time Williams' sessions were up, I would have done one of two things:1. Asked Williams to come back and finish the music after the scenes were completed. If that was impossible, then...2. Ask Williams to compose a "Forest Battle-type" suite of music "based on" the events described within the approximate time. Then either...a) (Preferably) edit the scenes around the suite, or...B) Edit the music TO the scenes and have something better to edit FROM. At least THAT would have been better than those HORRENDOUS little 10 seconds of one cue and 5 seconds of another mixed with 15 seconds from yet another (NONE of which was even composed for THIS movie let alone the scenes). That's just drivel that RUINED the end of the film, IMO. Complain about the dialogue, love story, or acting all you want... the music chops were what made AOTC the wekest Star Wars film, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris ChrusherComix 46 Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 though this thing exists, I could really care less.AOTC ws a score that I didn't care much for, and still don't. It had some good moments, but overall its a huge disappointment.Again, Joe... I think you let your feelings about a movie interfere with the actual score a bit more than you realize.How else can you not care for the scores to Hook, A.I., AOTC, TPM, Indy & TLC, and The Fury, while loving Towering Inferno? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris ChrusherComix 46 Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 By the way, there is no reason to not believe Ocelot. I already stated that some insiders have complete sets to every score ever done that they worked on. These sets stay out of circulation, but occasionally some get out and we have a decent sounding bootleg (Like the Hook bootleg for example).I've heard rumors about a "studio-insider"Minority Report complete set for months, but nobody can get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocelot 508 Posted May 29, 2003 Author Share Posted May 29, 2003 That is what I am saying...hhhmmm, minority report, that would be a great one to have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordat1@aol.com 0 Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 NO NO NO NO, NONE of the producers of the CD told me. Don't put words into my mouth already. This CD was listened to at a certain office of a magazine and I know 2 people there very well, one of who called me and asked if i had it. He told me what had transpired at the office and that it WAS going to be released at some point. They were told at the office that Lucasfilm was the one that stopped the 2 CD from being released. I'm NOT making any of this up. My friends there have never lied to me about anything before so I trust them AND you guys can take this with a grain of salt..... Nothing is written in stone unless it is coming from the main source which this isn't, however, the CD does exist. As a composer, and as composer and orchestrator that has worked with some people, I know that the producers, directors and composers on any film always have the full music done on 2 CDs anyway. They have it. It's there, and whether they release it or not is for them to decide. So Ford, no reality check needed and don't be so insulting in the future! It's not like I'm making this up, but since you don't know me, you might think it's a thing I do, who knows..... Think what you like!The Smell grows even stronger.....In short, I don't buy what your selling for one second.But just to be fair I sent a link to both this thread and the front page story to the head of SONY CLASSICAL.Who knows, maybe LUCASFILM would like to know how this master fell into the hands of your "Friends".Ford A. Thaxton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordat1@aol.com 0 Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Ocelot said one of the producers of the CD told him.Stefancos- who finds this...puzzling.Which were JOHN WILLIAMS AND KEN WANNBERG.Ford A. Thaxton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Yes thank you Ford, i've read the CD inlays.Stefancos- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scaramanga 0 Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 All these insiders need is a few hours after official working time and then they just go to the archives ... pick up the masters ... do some editing and voila they have a complete release ... not so hard ... especially if you're working at a studio .... just like it is said that everyone who worked on LOTR and TTT got a complete score set ... since there are master tapes it is stupid to claim there are no complete scores at all ... everyone who works on the music can get one ... and I'm quite sure there is a complete release in GL and JW's archives .... but these might be the only ones that are actually on CD ... the other might have been edited and mixed but never put onto CD ... so they are just on master tapes and therefore not as easily leaked ... but I do have to say that AOTC Complete Score sounds wonderfull .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,326 Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Scaramanga wrote:... but I do have to say that AOTC Complete Score sounds wonderfull .... How do you want me to interpret that? ----------------Alex Cremers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris ChrusherComix 46 Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Ford, what difference does it make if Sony reads this thread or not? I don't get it.He's just saying that some "insiders" are swearing that a complete set of AOTC does exist and George Lucas stopped Sony from releasing it to the general public. Why is that so hard to believe? Why does it "smell fishy"?You of all people should know that some people (mostly studio insiders, composers, recording engineers, filmmakers) do have personal collections of material not released to the general public, and for the most part it STAYS unreleased unless one leaks out (and then becomes a "bootleg"). With your "insider" status, your rather severe reactions seem suspicious, because it does not seem to be an impossible story to swallow. Unless you are just upset because you don't have one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris ChrusherComix 46 Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 BTW, unrelated to this thread, but about Indysolo's pic in Steef's signature... DAMN, Neil! At first I thought you looked like an old friend of mine named Ian when I saw a pic of you long ago, but now with that pic... you are the spitting image of my cousin Brian! Spooky! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Mr. Thaxton, I really doesn't see the reason why Ocelot should be lying and bullying us about such a matter. He's a composer and an orchestrator who works in Hollywood and probably he knows people who should have this 2-Cd set and/or are close to Williams' ambient. And he's only saying that an official 2-CD set EXIST. He's not trying to sell it to us nor he's making bootleg copies of it... Probably you made the right thing to tell this thing to Sony and LucasFilm. Maybe they'll visit the thread and will acknowledge that there's quite a strong base to sell an expanded edition of the AOTC score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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