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Official "Lord of the Rings" Discussion Thread

Tolkien The Lord Of The Rings

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#1 diskobolus

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Posted 09 December 2003 - 03:42 PM

I saw Return of the King last night. The first viewing didn't really show a great deal of highly listenable music cut from OST, but has made what was released even more beautiful. The End of all Things is now the most gorgeous track.

As for the film itself, it is one of the best films of all time. I can count on one hand the number of film moments that have brought tears to my eyes - Yoda's death in ROTJ, the reunion in A.I., and Schindler's departure. Return of the King did it three times.

It takes over physically and emotionally and mentally. There just is no other way to describe it.



#2 Mr. Breathmask

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Posted 09 December 2003 - 03:57 PM

I hardly ever cry in films. I get a lump in my throat and prickly eyes, yes, but I don't think I've ever really cried. Not on Schindler's List, not on Bambi.
I'm looking forward to Return of the King very much, because I expect it to be a cinematic experience that will have profound impact. I'm going to be watching the three films back-to-back on the night of December 16 here in the local theatre, and if RotK is really going to be such an amazingly emotional film like everyone says it is, it'll be just an awesome experience.

- Marc, who can't wait.

#3 QuestionMarkMan

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Posted 09 December 2003 - 09:56 PM

Last movie I saw that made me cry was Bicentennial Man
perhaps I shouldn't have said that
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#4 stewdog1

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Posted 09 December 2003 - 09:59 PM

[OT] Field of Dreams makes me cry every time.

Back on topic, I hope that ROTK is as everything everyone has made it out to be. It comes out on my birthday, so that would be a perfect present to myself.

#5 Jango Fett

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Posted 09 December 2003 - 09:59 PM

idd :baaa:

#6 Rogue_Leader

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Posted 09 December 2003 - 10:01 PM

Awww man! Diskobolos is one lucky bastard! :baaa:

I gotta get myself in on one of these advanced screenings. They are having em in NY alot.

OH well .....

nice work buddy! Glad ya enjoyed it! :thumbup:

Last movie I saw that made me cry was Bicentennial Man
perhaps I shouldn't have said that


No ......... DEFINATELY SHOULD HAVE NOT SAID THAT! ;)
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#7 Morn

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Posted 09 December 2003 - 10:53 PM

Music makes me cry often, and it just so happens to be enhanced by movies sometimes. :)

#8 QuestionMarkMan

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Posted 10 December 2003 - 01:15 AM

[OT] Field of Dreams makes me cry every time.  

I saw that movie for the first time recently, I was surprised by how good it was.

QuestionMarkMan wrote:
Last movie I saw that made me cry was Bicentennial Man  
perhaps I shouldn't have said that


No ......... DEFINATELY SHOULD HAVE NOT SAID THAT!  

That was when it was out in the theaters, looooooong time ago, I went to it thinking it'd be more of a comedy.

#9 jw2285gd

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Posted 10 December 2003 - 02:00 AM

Angela's Ashes made me cry...Schindler's List did too...Hope to see it soon!

#10 Rogue_Leader

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Posted 10 December 2003 - 06:47 AM

BTW disk how did you get to see it early? You never told us exactly how you scored a early viewing.

#11 diskobolus

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Posted 10 December 2003 - 02:34 PM

BTW disk how did you get to see it early? You never told us exactly how you scored a early viewing.


Oh, I write film reviews for my college paper.

I really hope everyone else gets to experience ROTK in the same way I did. As Peter Jackson put it, "it's an extremely affecting experience."

#12 Joel

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Posted 10 December 2003 - 03:05 PM

I havn't ever cried in a movie in my memory. Schindler's List came close, but i didn't drop a tear. I hope Return of the King can make me cry. I've heard people say that if you're a guy and you wanna keep your pride, you shouldn't go with your girlfriend because you might be embarrassed. I'm single at the moment so it doesn't matter for me, i wanna see if it can make me blubber into my popcorn. I am dying to see this movie.

Diskobolus, do you reckon that you post a none spoiler review of the film? I am trying so desperately to stay away from spoilers, but i would love to hear you elaborate on your opinions.

#13 Melange

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Posted 10 December 2003 - 11:12 PM

If you're a guy and you wanna keep your pride, you shouldn't go with your girlfriend because you might be embarrassed.


Aaaaw...She cant be that ugly surely?. :music:

Melange - Knows what you were saying, but just felt a bit comical tonight. :music:

#14 Lurker

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Posted 11 December 2003 - 06:22 AM

This thread is now designated the Official Discussion Thread for The Return of the King and other Lord of the Rings discussions. Thank you for your consideration in this matter.

Neil

#15 Hector J. Guzman

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Posted 11 December 2003 - 07:27 AM

Lord of the Rings 3 is gonna kick major ass, baby! Woo-hooo!!!

:jump:

:sigh: Anderson Sleigh Ride
The Boston Pops Orchestra
John Williams

#16 Joel

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Posted 11 December 2003 - 09:47 AM

Aaaaw...She cant be that ugly surely? :jump:  


You havn't seen my ex. :sigh:

#17 Rogue_Leader

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Posted 11 December 2003 - 11:06 AM

BTW disk how did you get to see it early? You never told us exactly how you scored a early viewing.


Oh, I write film reviews for my college paper.

I really hope everyone else gets to experience ROTK in the same way I did. As Peter Jackson put it, "it's an extremely affecting experience."


Nice of them to let a College paper guy see the film. Uusually they only let major newspaper critics get advanced screenings.
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#18 Stefancos

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Posted 11 December 2003 - 11:30 AM

I...do not agree with this arrangement.

Stefancos- :sigh:

#19 nja

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Posted 11 December 2003 - 04:33 PM

I so do not agree with it.

nja- who thinks Stefancos' avatar looks even more serious than usual.

#20 diskobolus

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Posted 11 December 2003 - 11:01 PM

I...do not agree with this arrangement.

Stefancos-  :|


Nor I.

#21 Marian Schedenig

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Posted 11 December 2003 - 11:58 PM

Lord of the Rings 3 is gonna kick major ass, baby!


There's not even a LOTR 2 yet, far too early to worry about a LOTR 3.

Marian - :|

#22 Morn

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Posted 12 December 2003 - 12:38 AM

ROTK is getting really great reviews. I'm hopeful.

#23 Lurker

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Posted 12 December 2003 - 02:24 AM

I...do not agree with this arrangement.

I so do not agree with it.

Nor I.

The place to complain about this policy is here.

Neil

#24 Morn

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Posted 12 December 2003 - 02:56 AM

A reviewer said they didn't think much of the first 2 movies but this one is a true classic....

#25 Joey

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Posted 12 December 2003 - 02:50 PM

hey, I made a sticky about the Harry Potter Book so that the rest of you wouldn't be flooded with HP threads, this is a great idea, and I applaud Neil for doing so. Besides it gives all you LOTR fans your own little community, you can dress up, wear your ears, speak elvish, and just hang out the total Lotr geekyness in yourselves.

#26 Marian Schedenig

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Posted 12 December 2003 - 05:29 PM

A reviewer said they didn't think much of the first 2 movies but this one is a true classic....


You're the one who didn't believe me that ROTK was going to be the best.

Marian - who knew it all along. :sigh:

#27 Melange

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Posted 12 December 2003 - 11:47 PM

From Googlisms. A search on Mr Frodo.

mr frodo is alright i would never forgive myself if he is hurt
mr frodo is not going anywhere without me
mr frodo is so brave
mr frodo is fine
mr frodo is there
mr frodo is pregnant
mr frodo is going to save it i'm just going to tag along and carry his bags for him
mr frodo is still alive and all that
mr frodo is finally on



#28 Mr. Breathmask

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Posted 13 December 2003 - 12:29 PM

mr frodo is pregnant


LOL

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#29 Wojo

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Posted 15 December 2003 - 06:36 AM

Message erased by the Melmackian with a lightsabre.

#30 Joey

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Posted 15 December 2003 - 05:41 PM

thats your problem,

besides you can talk all the LOTR crap you want, just confine it to the official threads, thats not real hard to do.

#31 Wojo

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Posted 16 December 2003 - 06:37 AM

I wrote something really shitty up above before, and I erased it, because it can only be interpreted to be aimed at one individual, and that would be mean. Even though I hardly know the guy, I'd like to consider Neil a friend, even though we only talk online sporadically, he likes the other Pennsylvania NFL team (the one that can't make early golf reservations), and he doesn't like Lord of the Rings....hehe.......no one's perfect.

Eh, if we have to limit all our TLOTR talk to one or two "official" threads, then that's ok, I guess. It's not like we have to stop talking about it altogether. I mean, a John Williams MB ("emm bee") that can talk about John Williams AND ONLY John Williams (and his related stuff, of course) would be pretty dull and depressing....at the same token, a MB that talks about everything and anything on a whim loses direction and coherence, and thus loses a sense of community strength. Someone tried to make an MB that could talk about anything and everything, even the dreaded politics and religion, and, well, I haven't been there in months, and I don't think it's got any more posts now than it did then.

If it's to be, it's to be. I mean, last year, all the Harry Potter posts were limited to one sticky, and this was good. I don't like Harry Potter, I can't stand it, I have no desire to read any of the books, or see any of the movies, or listen to any of the scores. I don't care if it's Williams; I don't make an effort to listen to or like every single Williams score simply for the sake of listening and liking every Williams score, thus explaining why I will never watch or listen to AI or any Harry Potter movie, and really don't want to sit throught Schindler's List; I'm a picky Williams listener, there's a lot of Horner, Goldsmith, and, ahem, SHORE, that I'd rather listen to before a lot of JW's. I don't care how well done Harry Potter is, I don't care how many great British actors are in it. I think it's a cheap knock-off of The Lord of the Rings, and it makes my stomach turn to think about Harry Potter. Hell, the name "Harry Potter" came from some Goblin movie back in 1986. Instead of JK Rowling suing some knockoff Russian book, she should be sued by that forgotten moviemaker.

But this isn't a HP bashing thread, it's a TLOTR thread. I'm just relating my dislike of HP to the dislike of TLOTR by everyone who dislikes it. And if we can all get along, and have our stickies up above to keep everyone happy (I swear, back in the summer, it would've been convenient to have some Matrix or Hulk stickies; they're on my to watch list, the second and third Matrixes, they are, but I'm in no hurry; I feel like I've watched them from all the stuff I've read here :mrgreen: ), then that's what this site is all about. So yay for Neil for conglomeratizing (is that a word? *shrug*) all the Tolkienophytes together to make everybody happy.

yay Neil

#32 Wojo

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Posted 16 December 2003 - 07:06 AM

So now I can talk about TLOTR all I want here, and no one can complain.
Cool.

Well, diskobulus, you're one lucky stiff for seeing ROTK ahead of everyone else. My sister's in a concert on Wednesday, so I can't see it then, and if it's not Friday, it'll probably be NEXT weekend, after Christmas. Oh well, that'll give me time to finish The Silmarillion so I can tear back into the trilogy. I know that some people are uncomfortable about the word "trilogy" when talking about The Lord of the Rings, since it's not really a trilogy by design, but hey, anything that's cut into three parts can be defined as a trilogy. Back to the Future makes one coherent, complete movie, and no one barfs when it's called a trilogy, so we'll call TLOTR a trilogy. If ten hours were shown to you en masse in the theatre, I know your butt and bladder would be hoping that it's a trilogy, so you can get up and walk around, rather than be stuck in your chair for ten hours.

Ahem.

Diskobulus, I have a wish list, about what I want to see in this movie. And if my wish list isn't at least 75% satisified, this movie's really gonna tick me off. Because I really expect The Return of the King to disappoint. I don't know if I'll be crying tears of joy, or tears of bitter disappointment. It was only after watching the Extended Edition of The Two Towers that I felt that justice was served to that film, and even then it's got sketchy parts, like how the Ents finally go to war and, for crying out loud, OSGILIATH!!

But at any rate, (and if you haven't read the books, don't read beyond; GO READ THE BOOK!)
I'd make it white, but it's a quick reply, and I'm lazy.....eh, I made it white anyways
PRE-SPOILERS:





1 Saruman and Pippin at Isengard, Pippin looking into the palantir....he HAS TO, because even though Frodo showed the Ring to a Nazgul at Osgiliath (tsk tsk tsk), Pippin has to look into the palantir to make Sauron think the Ring is at Isengard, and not on his doorstep, since he knows it's carried by a hobbit, from the words of Saruman and Gollum, but he doesn't know there are four hobbits on the playing field, not one, and thus not go looking for it until too late; if PJ skips this, he's dumb, and the story falls apart, and I'll leave right then and there.....and the final expulsion of Saruman and Grima; it's really not key to the story that Saruman in the movie be known as Saruman of Many Colors, but it would be nice to see him at least on the way to the Shire, even if the Scouring is not to be filmed, and just plain ignored, or skipped ahead over; finally, will we see you know who kill you know who

2 from the trailer, I know that Eowyn and Merry go to battle, but please tell me that it's they that do the killing of the big thing, and not, say, giving Arwen's character more stuff to do

3 in the EE of TTT, we see, first of all, Denethor, plus how he knows that Elrond has called a meeting, and he suspects the Ring has been found...did Elrond send runners, or are we going to see that Denethor does in fact also have a palantir, which is what's driving him mad?

4 let me just say this, the Ring is destroyed; you don't build up a three film, ten hour project, to destroy a tiny Ring, AND NOT DESTROY IT!!!...that's like touting Rocky II as the rematch, and having Rocky lose again...but right before it is cast into Sammrath Maur, will we see Sauron go frikking nuts? this was a part of the book that brought tears of joy to my eyes, when Frodo puts it on and Sauron realizes that the Ring is NOT at Isengard, but at Oroduin (Mt Doom), and Sauron realizes he's screwed.....it'd be nice, by then, to see Sauron in physical form, with one finger missing, as he should really be, instead of a flaming eyeball.....how scary.

5 do Eowyn and Faramir actually meet and fall in love, like they should? and how much help will Merry and Pippin be in their respective countries of Rohan and Gondor? or is this just another Bloom/Mortensen/Tyler/Wood movie?

6 maybe, if they haven't already, they'll mention the Kingdom of Arnor as well, instead of just assuming the throne of Gondor?




I do cry in a lot of movies, both at happy and sad times. I'm not ashamed to admit it. I cried the first time I saw The Empire Strikes Back, a year after I saw The Phantom Menace, when Vader said I am your Father. It finally hit home, that little innocent wooden Jake Lloyd was this dark menacing Vader. I cry every time Spock dies, and Data, too. My eyes well up when Geordi la Forge and Ensign Ro Laren "come back to life" in TNG's "The Next Phase." I'd cry if you made me watch Harry Potter....I hope that Return of the King makes me cry, and for all the right reasons....I don't want to wait a bloody year for The Extended Edition to fix mistakes again. It's bad enough having to wait for the score's box set and companion book.

K, I'm done.

#33 Wojo

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Posted 16 December 2003 - 07:26 AM

I don't know if this site was ever pointed to, or how well-known it is, but I found it handy the other day:

The Encyclopedia of Arda
http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/

It's still a work in progress as far as updating is concerned, but it attempts to be a complete encylopedia of Tolkien's world. Every character, race, event, location, with some maps, and just a lot of very interesting information about TLOTR, The Hobbit, The Silmarillion, and everything else and in between. It's helped clear up some cloudy issues in TS, and it was interesting to see that Six of the Seven Rings to the Dwarves and Nine to Men were given by Sauron. Tolkien really wrote such a complete and comprehensive history to his world, of which Middle-Earth is but one part of Arda, that The Lord of the Rings isn't mere fantasy fiction, it's history. It's a complete historical account of a world changing event; the fact that it's a made up history is beside the point. And this online encyclopedia has it all.


The project I was working on pertains to a computer game, Sid Meier's Civilization III. I downloaded a forty-megabyte modpack from Apolyton's Civilization III message board site, http://www.apolyton.net/ (it's somewhere in there), and though it's good, it's basically a work in progress. And it comes with a blank ocean map, which means that each game has to generate its own random map. I wanted to play in Middle Earth, so I imported someone else's ME map and tweaked it a little, and put each civilization in its own accurate starting location, like the Sindar, Noldor, Beornings, Corsairs, Dorwinrim, Mordor, Hobbits, Dwarves, Dunedain, Rohirrim, Woses, Silvan, Haradrim, Easterlings, Dunlendings...I think that's all of them. I don't know if they technically want stuff like that edited, but it's for my own personal purposes as far as gaming is concerned. The technical tree needs tweaked, since Hobbits shouldn't be able to build railroads, and even having the Hobbits be so expansionist and warlike is WRONG, and the Barbarians should be a mix of men and orcs, not just men. But it is fun, even though it's REALLY crowded around the Gap of Rohan, with so many civs vying for Gondor and Mordor and the land to the sea. Just wanted to pass that along, and I suppose that I should stop now, since my posts occupy a lot of screen space. I tried playing the Civ2 scenario of The War of the Ring, but it was really hard; I just want to be able to build and play in a blank ME. If anyone does download that, let me know, and maybe I can send what I tweaked to you. And if you're the originator of the TLOTR mod, and want me to stop editing it or making it known, I can stop. No one's in this for money, just fun, and being as true to Tolkien's work as possible.

#34 Mr. Breathmask

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Posted 17 December 2003 - 06:58 AM

It rocked.

But still, the one thing that bothered me was that there was so much missing. No voice of Saruman, no Houses of Healing, no Mouth of Sauron. No explanation is given for Denethor's madness (caused by a Palantír, as readers of the book know), Éowyn and Faramir's relation doesn't even come into the movie, you just see them together at Aragorn's coronation, looking very happy.
Pity that so much was cut out. I can't remember where I read it, but one reviewer said that RotK was much like a three-and-a-half hour trailer for the Extended Edition. Very true. But you cannot deny that what is actually there is awesome, and a great conclusion for what is undeniable a pillar in motion picture history, and an undertaking that will hold lonely heights on all fronts for many years.

- Marc, who came back from the local LotR marathon just over 3.5 hours ago, and will leave for school in a few.

:mrgreen: Howard Shore - The White Tree from The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (OST)

Marc = best MB dutchie ever!


#35 Wojo

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Posted 17 December 2003 - 07:46 AM

Grr. The lack of Eowyn and Faramir's romance, and Denethor's palantir, pains me greatly.

Methinks, however, that what started out as a great idea may have turned into a crutch: the Extended Edition. With TFOTR, the cinematic version was spectacular, and left very little important information from the books out...once you get past Tom Bombadil and other parts that would've made getting from the Shire to Rivendell take two hours, then getting to Amon Hen seem like a breeze, when it's actually a much, much greater distance. The Extended Edition of that film merely put more icing on a very hefty slice of cake, it just made an already great movie that much greater with more character sequences, elaborations, prolouge, and Galadriel's gift, not to mention the Ash nazg durbatuluk part at the Council.

However, with TTT, we got a cinematic version that left first-time-initiates to the story totally dazzled, but veterans of the books moderately to severely disturbed at how much of the second volume (third and fourth books) was changed, or totally ignored, or transformed from one brief mention to a blown-out sequence (Osgiliath, Theoden's exorcism, and warg riders). The Battle of the Hornbug was left totally without a proper conclusion, the Ents serve practically no purpose other than to bash Isengard (to what end remains to be seen), and Faramir's made into the same temptable man as his late brother (which, however, was explained to my great 95% satisfaction in the Extended Edition). BUT, with said Extended Edition of TTT, we see much that doesn't simply add character sequences to the film, it actually fills in some rather large holes.....we now see what happens to the remaining orcs at Helm's Deep. The Erkenbrand-turned-Eomer&Gandalf cavalry rescue doesn't clean them up, the Ents of Fangorn (Huorns, I take it) do...we see that Aragorn isn't the 30-something man he appears to be, he really is a Dunedain, and that means he's really old, 87 of the 210 or so he'll live to be. Yes, TTT EE does add the same veins of humor and fluff that TFOTR EE did....Saruman's storeroom in TTT as compared to Aragorn's song of Beren and Luthien in TFOTR, but what stands out is how it fixes a flawed movie and saves it.

Based on my own early fears, which won't be tested one way or the other until FRIDAY when I see TROTK, and the word of Mr. Breathmask (btw, thanks for the idea of modifying the avatar for the season!), I believe that TROTK (yes, for some strange reason, I'm including the "The" in that abbreviation; if we have FOTR and ROTK, we have to have TT instead of TTT, and TT could be Tiny Tim, for cryin out loud)......is simply going to be another flawed version of a Tolkien book. PJ feels content to release a movie that wraps up about 75% of the story in the theatres, and he's saving the 110% version for the EE DVD a year from now. If this version is indeed "a 3.5 hour trailer for the EE," then that's just the way it is. Besides, I read an interview from Christopher Lee saying that he had a really huge scene for this movie that would only be in the Extended Edition; whether that's his expulsion from Isengard scene, or his end at Grima's hand scene, only those who have seen it and know what's missing can say. On the other hand, since those who haven't seen the EE of TTT have not yet met Denethor in Faramir's double flashback, that could explain the lack of his palantir as seen in this cut of the film.

But the bottom line is, PJ is relying on the EE to cover his hide with the missing pieces of the puzzle. Those who haven't read the books will be completely fooled, and they'll be happy when the credits roll, but those who have will still be missing some important sequences. Furthermore, there's a whole audience who will never watch the EE versions of the film, because they'll gobble up the first VHS/DVD and not see the point for more. Grr. I ramble way too much about little fears like this, but it irks me. I CAN'T WAIT A YEAR FOR THE EE OF TROTK!!!

~

And yet, I shouldn't complain. At least PJ is giving us a quality work, unlike another director who is trying to give us a different trilogy, and finding that the shoes he created 20 years ago are way too big for him to even attempt to fill now. :mrgreen:

PJ's to do list:
2003, TROTK
2004,5?, King Kong and TROTK EE
2006-7?....The Hobbit??
:P :cool:

#36 Marian Schedenig

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Posted 17 December 2003 - 01:58 PM

No voice of Saruman, no Houses of Healing, no Mouth of Sauron. No explanation is given for Denethor's madness (caused by a Palantír, as readers of the book know), Éowyn and Faramir's relation doesn't even come into the movie, you just see them together at Aragorn's coronation, looking very happy.


From what I've heard, Saruman, Mouth and the Houses of Healing were all filmed, so I hope they'll be in the EE.

And I do hope there will be more Denethor stuff, including the Palantir as well. I really didn't like how they reduced him from a madly desparate stewart into a pure idiot.

As I've said elsewhere, I think the EE will improve the movie about as much as that of TTT did...perhaps even more.

Marian - who can't wait for it. ;)

:mrgreen: ROTK

#37 Mr. Breathmask

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Posted 17 December 2003 - 05:54 PM

I know all of that was filmed, that's why it bothered me so much. The way it was cut out just left a lot of gaps in the story.

- Marc, wants to see this film again. :mrgreen:

#38 NeejaHalycon

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Posted 17 December 2003 - 10:57 PM

I'm glad I did Trilogy Tuesday, not just because I love the films, but because ROTK seems like a straight continuation of TTT, far more than TTT was to FOTR. If you haven't seen it yet, I STRONGLY recommend viewing the TTT:EE directly before hand.

#39 Miz

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Posted 18 December 2003 - 09:19 AM

I know all of that was filmed, that's why it bothered me so much. The way it was cut out just left a lot of gaps in the story.


Do you realise how much stick Jackson would get for lengthening that film any longer?

I must admit though, it was well worth the sore-arse factor.
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#40 Elmo Lewis

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Posted 18 December 2003 - 11:51 AM

I saw the movie yesterday. And, much like its predecessors, I didn't like it. Well, not that I don't like it - I just don't connect with it. I just couldn't care less about Aragorn's reign, Faramir's "death", Eowyn's attraction to pretty much any man on horses, or Merry's sickness after killing that Nazgul (was that a Nazgul?)

(There's a conclusion at the end of this review, in case you want to skip the long, whining parragraphs).

I haven't read the books, nor do I plan to. I just don't like the LOTR story. Well, not the story (since I like Star Wars and it's basically the same concept), but the setting. I don't like fantasy, medieval books with all those weird names and people calculating distances in days, weeks, depending on what their horse will do. I just don't.

So when I see the three movies, I'm just seeing the movies. Not comparing them to a book or anything. The movies per se, on their own, as they are. And while the first two had some little, personal elements that I like, all these elements are cut off in the third movie. There's just no more character development, no more dialogue (other than characters shouting out loud to their troops). It's just hurrying one scene to another (the first hour is unbearable) to get big shots of huge armies crossing the Middle Earth, while the music goes all bombastic and loud.

Then the battle begins. Well, that's what I waited and hour and a half for. But it turns out that the only chracters I care about, the Fellowship of the Ring (Frodo, Sam, Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli - I don't count Merry and Pippin, or Gandalf, as he is a new character now that he is White) remain offscreen for a big portion of the story. And when get all that Faramir's-supposed-death-resurrecting-in-the-last-minute (everything in this movie happens in the last minute), all that Theoden-dying. . .And the real characters are nowhere to be seen. So for a big hour things get deadly dull (except when we cut to the Frodo/Sam/Gollum scenes, which are all character development in themselves), until Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli kick back into action with all those ghosts. But alas, just then the battle is over. Three minutes of more, quick dialogue, and back we are to another battle - the Mordor one. Which to me just feels like a rushed scene to get the Hollywood ending going.

One thing I also noticed, at the beginning and then at the end, was... the cheesiness. Some early scenes are so cheesy, like the final beat when Gandalf interrogates Pippin about what he told Saruman with the ball. There's a big music build-up, a long beat and then we cut to next scene, where Gandalf says: "The hobbit didn't say anything". Why then build up the suspense?! In that same scene Gandalf says something like: "I'll go to Minas Tirith. But I will not go alone." End of scene. I guess this works better on the books, but on the movie it just feels, well, cheesy. The lighting of the torchese to warn Rohan that Gondor is into war, was also excessive.

There's another BIG cheesy scene which actually made me blush. The going-back-home part, when Frodo wakes up and sees Gandalf laughing his butt off. Well, no wonder, just listen to Frodo: "GAAAN-DALF". What, did the adventure make him a retard? The rest of the scene is a sepia, slo-mo hugging of Frodo as characters walk into Frodo's bedroom. Who, on their senses, would agree to shoot something like that? I guess the same people who agreed to needlessly shoot Sam's wedding. Or the really last scene when Sam walks into his house, shuts the door and we fade out. The ship going into the west was a GREAT ending, but nooo. We had to see Sam shutting his door. It was key to the story, you see.

There's more. Peter Jackson's directing has seemed to have changed in this movie - or maybe I changed since I saw TTT last year. This time his camera angles annoyed me, with all those quick-cutting shots to just show a character say a line. And then his CGI-ed camera moves from a characters' face to a general shot of a battle. One thing remains admirable, though, and that's the use of special effects. Not overused. Not underused. Just used.

The music started good, and was a real aid for me to follow the story. I know the themes, but not the names. So when a theme would kick in, I'd know what they are talking about, and it was a true help. Pity it just got theme-less an hour into the movie. I still liked the chorus Fellowship rendition.

Oh, the acting remains superb. No arguing that.

Conclusion? This movie is going to appeal to a lot of people. It doesn't have something the other movies have, which in my case made me dislike it. But I suppose it was something true LOTR fans didn't like, and so they love this movie. It simply was too epic for me, I much preferred the story when it was small and just about a hobbit carrying a piece of jewelry through a forest. Silly me.
"We’re flawed because we want so much more. We’re ruined because we get these things and wish for what we had."





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