photo17nz

Hi, I was listening to the CD a few days ago trying to identify some specific instruments in these tracks, maybe someon can help: 04 Apparation on the train, scratchy strings, tuba and ?? (some kind of atmospheric synth?) 13 Quidditch Year 3 1:21-1:28 strings, brass & wind + some kind of mallet percussion instrument ?? (vibraphone/tubular bells??) 17 Saving Buckbeak pizz/arco lower strings, low winds & marimba tremolo + ??? ( muted trombone??) Anyones intelligent ears pick up these instruments?? Thanks.

LOL! I guess Williams's music is popular because his music works 60-80 % in a film like E.T. but it also makes Universal/20th century etc. some $$$$$ when sold as an albulm. Also with Star Wars - the theme primarily. As opposed to say Thomas Newman.... Whose music works on a more intellectual level with the film. But doesn't sell well commercially.... If I were a film director I would chose the logical option thesedays......to make money....therefore Williams is more in demand because he is a good composer and makes the film companies more money. Having said all this of course Superman, Star Wars, E.T. , Indiana Jones are all films of past decades. Their music is overall non-subtle (ie typical of the 1970's and early eighties( and favours the brass section. In direct contrast for example would be say ...... Amistad, Schindlers List, Catch me if you can would be borderline. To me anyway Williams's scores tend to be less Romantic and brassy thesedays as the public does not favour the blandness of Trumpets playing an octave or two fortissimo above everyone else in the orchestra. My 2 cents

Williams uses a lot of horn doubling w/wind or strings. Perhaps too much at times. I agree that Abandoned in the Woods is an excellent cue, however listening to it again & again I find it toooo virtuostic/bravuraesque for the film itself, as Thomas Newman said in an interview once the music is not supposed to be noticed to the extent to which the composer is trying to show off his/her ability it's supposed to supplement........although having said that its fun for the orchestra to play.........! And the CD soundtrack will not sell wel if the music is too intellectual.

Thanks for the Photobucket website reference! http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y14/photo...Plannera002.jpg Is an original sample of the first 8 bars of 'Krypton' from Superman... notice the 'Wind' indication +Bsn in the bottom right corner.

Could someone please explain how to post a picture ... the attachment doesn't seem to be working.. Thanks

I have photocopies or Williams Sketches in his own hand and to prove it the first 8 bars of Superman Krypton are displayed, so you can be assured I do, actually know what I am talking about. I agree with Skywalker's comments on orchestration fully, however, he does have a few orchestrators so the results may be a that tiny bit different (probably not in sound). Bill Wrobel has the ORIGINAL Sketches which he copied for my personal use. As for the potter scores I have only read his transcriptions..... as he states he is not allowed to copy the score.

Williams does write evey note you hear, obvioulsy! However to say that he orchestrates 100% is incorrect -if so he would then be like Bernard Herrmann who insisted that he'd never use an orchestrator. And there would be no orchestrator credit at the end of all his films. Why is it then that he writes short scores instead of the whole 35 staff score like Herrmann used to? -Time. With respect to all the other hundred + scores he has composed, I watched the movie Superman Movie a week ago, with Williams original handwritten 8 + 1 stave scores with me. Where there are indications of instruments & instrumental groupings eg. Wind, Str. aswell as more detailed indications such as 2 Tpts. 6 Hns. Timp. Where you have the Wind or String indications the orchestrator has some decisions to make..... Should he/she include piccolo/english horn/3 Bsns. Contrabassoon? This is what I would call 'vague' orchestration. Yes, he has indicated Winds, but what instruments? or all the instruments? Remembering of course Flute, Oboe, Clarinet, Bassoon and their auxiliries eg. Bass Cl. all have diffent tone colour. So, in conclusion I would say that some instruments are more thought out (specifically those not doubling) eg. {usually} Harp. And for the case of Winds, these parts are left for the orchestrator to decipher, not the actual music but the quantity and timbre required.

I could have a go at orchestrating it in a few days time... I take it is a Sibelius file. John Williams sketches are similar but he uses 8 staves + 1 line for percussion. (- at least on his Superman scores and I heard that he uses 8 staffs for Harry Potter), as well so he can be slightly more detailed about the instrumental line.

I agree Williams does about 90% but on the sketch I have he doesn't indicate how many of an instrument are playing eg. Cl, Fl. or Str. also there is no harp pedaling for instance. It is up to the orchestrator to decide how many people are playing unless solo is indicated. Another example is in the Superman Prologue a polytonal dotted rhythm (written on one stave) is heard from the Fl,Cl,Ob. and Celeste. There is no indication of whether he wants the three parts to come from 3 of each instrument eg Bb, G, Eb would be played by Flute 1,2,3 Oboe 1,2, EH and Clarinet 1,2,3 instead of say the Flute playing Bb, Oboe playing the G and Clarinet playing the Eb. Sometimes his Bass Instruments (in particular) are not written -obvioulsy assumed as CB, C.Bsn, Tuba ?? or maybe just CB ? Apart from these issues which would get the orchestrator to think a little JW does include almost all of what is needed to be written on the sketch.

Get in touch with Bill Wrobel - Film Score Rundowns -(search it on google), he may be able to help you out. I only have 16 bars of 'Krypton'. BTW They are extremely hard to read....

Or John Neufeld.....

I have JW's sketches for Superman, but I wonder if most/all composers in history, including (for film) have written everything in sketch format? I guess composers get more of an overview of the music they are trying to create. I still find it hard to envisage the Harry Potter - 'Quidditch Match' Score for instance or - 'Jango's escape' - 'Zam the Asssasin... etc.... being written on only 8+1 Staves .... They must be very detailed considering he is working with a full Symphonic Orchestra with all the bells and whistles - 2 harps, pno, lots of percussion etc ..... Has anyone ever seen the sketches of these scores?

I have JW's sketches for Superman, but I wonder if most/all composers in history, including (for film) have written everything in sketch format? I guess composers get more of an overview of the music they are trying to create. I still find it hard to envisage the Harry Potter - 'Quidditch Match' Score for instance or - 'Jango's escape' - 'Zam the Asssasin... etc.... being written on only 8+1 Staves .... They must be very detailed considering he is working with a full Symphonic Orchestra with all the bells and whistles - 2 harps, pno, lots of percussion etc ..... Has anyone ever seen the sketches of these scores?

I have JW's sketches for Superman, but I wonder if most/all composers in history, including film have written everything in sketch format. I guess they get more of an overview of the music they are trying to create. I still find it hard to envisage the Harry Potter - 'Quidditch Match' Score for instance or - 'Jango's escape' - 'Zam the Asssasin... etc.... being written on only 8+1 Staves .... They must be very detailed considering he is working with a full Symphonic Orchestra with all the bells and whistles - 2 harps, pno, lots of percussion etc ..... Has anyone ever seen the sketches of these scores?

Does anyone know who did the orchestrations for the ROTS socre which is being recorded by the LSO now? Or did JW do them himself?