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Howard Shore's The Desolation Of Smaug (Hobbit Part 2)
Incanus and 2 others reacted to Doug Adams for a topic
The line in question is not Arwen's theme; Arwen Revealed is a separate figure. The use of this line in DOS is consistent with its use in FOTR.3 points -
Howard Shore's The Desolation Of Smaug (Hobbit Part 2)
Incanus and one other reacted to Doug Adams for a topic
Georg is essentially correct about Beorn's theme.2 points -
Howard Shore's The Desolation Of Smaug (Hobbit Part 2)
Dixon Hill and one other reacted to Faleel for a topic
No, its not An Elvish Pledge. that only occurs in Doors of Durin and The Host of the Eldar IIRC2 points -
Howard Shore's The Desolation Of Smaug (Hobbit Part 2)
SafeUnderHill and one other reacted to gkgyver for a topic
Wizard themes are never late anyway, they arrive precisely when they mean to!2 points -
Howard Shore's The Desolation Of Smaug (Hobbit Part 2)
Smeltington and one other reacted to Incanus for a topic
Yes I thought along the same lines. The High Fells music also quotes a section from A Coronal of Silver and Cold from RotK at the beginning with the choral build, where in RotK the lyrics were from the Revelation of the Ringwraiths. And soprano part could be linked to the Seduction of the Ring as soloist does almost quote the line in High Fells track. It'll probably become a "Servents of Sauron" theme. That fits Ringwraiths and Orcs I guess. Explaining it's quotation in the FOTR Prologue. It's always been a second age theme. Again this is just my personal interpretation but the Ringwraith theme seems to speak to the enormous power of Sauron himself and of his most powerful servants, the Nazgûl. This music of course received a new variant in the Power of Mordor theme later on (and was initially considered for the prologue) in RotK when Sauron put forth all his might and empowered his greatest servants, the Nazgûl, even further but in the LotR films the Ringwraiths' theme is reserved exclusively to the Nazgûl outside the prologue appearance. It is never applied e.g. to Gothmog. I have been saying it quite a few times but the use of this theme for the confrontation between Azog and Thorin is far fetched thematically. Oh yes Azog is an orc and a big orc at that but is he one of Sauron's most trusted minions on the level of Ringwraiths. Nope, not by a long shot. Is Sauron somehow channelling his power through Azog? This is of course possible but the audience has to do a lot of interpretation to arrive to that conclusion through the music alone. I think the music is so emblematic of those wraiths (on horseback and on wings) that re-appropriating it for an orc chief leaves me to scratch my head in confusion still. I also feel that dramatically this insertion of the Ringwraith theme to that particular moment is clumsy and ill-conceived as it shouts "DOOM, THORIN IS GOING TO LOSE!" from the beginning. His charge is doomed to fail. The score transmits this loud and clear, that Azog is going to win no matter what. Shore's initial response to the scene is a dwarven choral chant that is courageous, almost delusionally so, in a way that gives his attack false heroism, which Shore then at the last minute dispels when Thorin falls, the effect much more powerful in my opinion and even psychologically more sound, being almost an expression of Thorin's obsession and grudge bearing mentality, which leads him to his fatal and reckless heroism. Gondor Reborn, a 4th Age theme, sounds so awkwardly out of place for Thorin's and Bilbo's reconciliation from leitmotific point of view as now a theme devoted not only to Gondor, a realm of Men, and the renewal of the world, is now applied to a relatively insignificant emotional moment in the middle of the Hobbit. This I call stretching the thematic meaning a heck of a lot and can't think of any explanation to it whatsoever that would not ring a bit false and a desperate attempt to explain an obvious "going by the gut" decision in a way that it would make sense in leitmotific way true to this film saga. Then again these decisions are not always based on 100% strict thematic interpretation and the Hobbit films seem to stretch the initial meanings quite a lot and often going for the purely emotional resonance over leitmotific significance. P.S. Desolation of Smaug is a great score indeed but needs more processing than one listen I have had time to give it. It is certainly quite different score from An Unexpected Journey in overall feel, being a tad closer to a "normal" big Hollywood blockbuster score but bears still undiminished Howard Shore imprint all over. This is some of Shore's most extrovert work to date and he writes a heck of an action adventure score here. At the same time it has beautiful subtleties and orchestrational details. The NZSO performs wonderfully and even though their sound is audibly different from NPO, they really outdo themselves in interpreting Shore's music. It sounds vibrant and powerful. The themes from AUJ seem to be mostly left behind except for the central dwarven themes for Erebor, Thorin and of course Smaug's themes that really come to prominence here. E.g. Gandalf's themes are entirely in the sidelines (his motif appears once briefly if I remember correctly) and Bilbo, our main protagonist moves with his themes aside as well to make room for Thorin and his dwarves as we near the Lonely Mountain. This music feels very new and fresh but I wish there had been more connective ideas at the beginning of the album. But on the other hand it is akin to TTT where we hit the ground running (literally) and re-establishing of the world musically was perhaps not needed by the film maker's estimate. I think the film makers waited eagerly to get to this "tabula rasa" territory and it shows in the number of new ideas for Mirkwood, Spiders, Beorn, Lake-Town, Bard, Dwarves and Erebor and most of all the Woodland Realm and its elven inhabitants. I am sure my initial listen just scratched the surface but on the whole DoS is a masterful score full of spirit, energy and themes. Smaug's material receives stupendously varied and powerful variations and comes to its own after being but a musical hint in AUJ. Perhaps something I was left wanting was more choral music, especially at the latter half of the score where a dwarven chant or two would not have harmed the proceedings (and added some variety to the orchestral sound) but there is no denying that DoS is a fantastic fantasy score. More detailed commentary coming later. P.P.S. Beyond the Forest rocks! It is like an Elven tone poem on the Woodland Realm themes.2 points -
Howard Shore's The Desolation Of Smaug (Hobbit Part 2)
Bilbo and one other reacted to Doug Adams for a topic
The horse was bound by "NDAs 'n shit", so if we didn't understand, it's probably because being tied by NDAs and having a cryptic way of speaking anyway are not a good combination when trying to talk some sense into rabid film score fanboys Actually, this was the one subject about which I was very direct. And yes, "5056464 times" seems about right by my count.2 points -
The answer is: mad editing schedule. Georg is essentially correct about Beorn's theme. Good to know I haven't become completely tone-deaf. I love that rendition in the first minute of The House Of Beorn, it's atmospherically somewhat reminiscent of Strider's introduction in Bree.1 point
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Howard Shore's The Desolation Of Smaug (Hobbit Part 2)
Dixon Hill reacted to gkgyver for a topic
I would assume its become a "Grace of the Elves/Elven Women" theme It's the elvish pledge that is quoted, not her theme itself, no? In Doug's book this theme is called Arwen Revealed and can be heard here at the very start. Karol It's certainly based on "Arwen Revealed", but to me it was always a variation on that, since the ascending echoing lines aren't part of her theme.1 point -
Howard Shore's The Desolation Of Smaug (Hobbit Part 2)
Dixon Hill reacted to gkgyver for a topic
No, I don't mean THAT theme, but the theme for Arwen praying for Frodo's life at Bruinen. I don't think that is Arwen's theme per se, it goes into a different direction.1 point -
OK I'm after my third full listen. It's among the best of 2013, clearly. It's interesting how little old material gets carried over from the old trilogy, it's almost all The Hobbit stuff. And it's all for the best. That's what I wanted in the first place - an expansion of Middle Earth. What is Arwen theme doing in this score, by the way? That bit when she first appears in FOTR and then at the end of ROTK. Karol1 point
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Poll: Will Bombur Speak?
SafeUnderHill reacted to Faleel for a topic
The third option seems so...Bloodboalian.1 point -
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The dirge- like choir statements of Smaug's theme at the end of "My Armour Is Iron", with the short interlude of Thorin's theme, are spine-tingling.1 point
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The Book Thief (2013) - New Williams film score!
Once reacted to Koray Savas for a topic
Everything by John Williams becomes an insurmountable masterpiece in time.1 point -
What Is The Last Score You Listened To? (older scores)
Dixon Hill reacted to Koray Savas for a topic
Do we even know if Ottman will reuse any of his themes in Day Of The Future Past? Feel like this was asked before, but most likely. When my brother interviewed him he said he was disappointed that he never got further develop his X2 music.1 point -
Howard Shore's The Desolation Of Smaug (Hobbit Part 2)
Bilbo reacted to #SnowyVernalSpringsEternal for a topic
Performance, recording and orchestration wise I really can't tell a huge amount of difference between this score and the previous four. It's Howard Shore in Tolkien's world trough and through.1 point -
I really think the EE of DoS will add a lot more, about 25 minutes, given the shorter theatrical time and the additional shooting block, where Jackson would no doubt have given himself more material for the EE. In which case, surely this time extra recording sessions will be required in the Spring (fingers crossed). We'll get more quieter character moments there so the more gentle themes (Bilbo, Gandalf) might get more of a workout. The close of TABA will offer a lot of scope for these themes as well.1 point
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Oh, yeah, I love that second phrase. I truly hope we'll get to hear it in TABA. The problem I have with themes from AUJ not being reused in DOs is that it now seems this trilogy of scores won't feel like an unified whole as much as the LOTR scores do. It's the Star Wars prequels problem all over again! It's a shame, since it's one of the aspects of the LOTR scores I love the most.Huh?? You're exaggerating. I didn't count them, but as far as I can remember, every new theme from AUJ is heard in DOS, except for the setting-specific themes like Goblintown. Just because the Plan 9 theme isn't there doesn't make it "the prequels all over again", not even close.1 point
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If it's not on Youtube, then it means it's not worth listening to.1 point
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The Classical Music Recommendation Thread
Bespin reacted to Dixon Hill for a topic
Bach Friday... now that I can get behind. Nice choices, too.1 point -
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La-La Land Black Friday 2013
Trent B reacted to OneBuckFilms for a topic
Superman Returns for me. Great selection this year.1 point -
Just wait a year or two...1 point
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The Book Thief (2013) - New Williams film score!
MaxMovieMan reacted to TownerFan for a topic
In my very humble opinion, this is a masterful score. I'm loving it more and more after each listen.1 point -
What is the last video game you played?
Koray Savas reacted to Quintus for a topic
Setting up the Playstation!1 point -
Now there is a tenuous link if there ever was one.1 point