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Loving these crunchy chords after Ben Solo's death with the brass chorale (what @Falstaft (hiatus til TROS) lists as "Ben Solo's Redemption" in his magnificent catalogue). The first chord of bars 1, 3, and 4 I hear as polychord constructions of DM / Eb5. Actually, the cue reminds me of "Voluntary Retirement" from Thomas Newman's Skyfall, which gives a similar brass chorale texture for Bond's "funeral". Not the same chords, but there's something similar about combining chords a semitone apart (successively in Newman, simultaneously in Williams).

I can understand the Lando Arrives cue not sticking out as special from seeing the film, with everything else going on and all the dialogue and sound effects, etc. However, I hope if that was the case for you, you are willing to set aside 106 seconds and listen to this, preferably with headphones on, trying to ignore the dialogue and sound effects and just listen to the music: This is more than just another re-recording of the main SW theme, this is a true reworking of the theme by JW for the climactic heroic moment of the film. This is a cue worth having.

There's a long post on MilenniumFalcon.org detailing all that from an "insider" but it read like total fiction to me. Just used convenient details like Lucas being absent from the premiere as ammunition to fuel a baseless narrative about what may/may not have happened during pre-production. Also, the delay of the art book until March, which fans think is a conspiracy to remove abandoned concepts from seeing the light of day. I think the film is just a mess because Abrams hacked it to pieces in an attempt to get the runtime down, without realising how much he was harming the narrative by cutting each scene down to a few short lines. I don't think it's a coincidence that 6 weeks pre-release, theatres were given an approx. runtime of 155 minutes, only to have 15 minutes disappear by the release date. They either ran out of time to finish all the VFX needed or just decided to hack away at every scene in a desperate attempt to shorten the film, losing all sense of pacing in the process and creating a borderline incoherent, whiplash inducing mess in the process. Why JJ felt the film needed to move at lightspeed, when nobody would have complained about it taking its time with the narrative progression, has me stuffed. It's the opposite problem to TLJ where a few minutes shaved off the runtime would really have helped that Canto Bight sequence. This film desperately needed a few extra minutes around key plot reveals to let audiences comprehend what they were actually watching.

He's (over)analyzing the significance of that moment in the story and then atribuiting those qualities to a simple motif that it's not too different from typical Williams musical gestures (those "chromatic doubles" are typical Williams to represent tension or mystery, and never family). it's possible that the Marauder's theme comes from the Nimbus 2000/Mischief theme (consciously or not), but Platform 9 3/4 music is NOT a leitmotif, and (a fragment of it) doesn't represent family at all. Plus, the theme was tracked into many of the scenes he mentions. And by the way, scoring Attack of the Clones was finished by January 2002, long before Williams could even begin to score Harry Potter 2, so there's that as well. I think sometimes we tend to overanalyze the thematic significance of William's music. More and more I get the feeling that Williams writes more based on the emotions he wants to convey in a certain scene and not carefully constructing and deconstructing thematic ideas. I guess he is more emotion driven than intellectually driven when it comes to writing music (meaning that he treats his themes in a very general sort of way). I mean, you could create a Youtube video about how the use of Yoda's theme in the reunion scene of TROS is a really clever way to represent the wisdom of the Jedi master, and the ultimate triumph of good, and the idea that a part of Yoda lives in every good person in the galaxy.... but the truth is that Williams just used the theme because he wanted to have a mix of old themes in one of the final moments of the movie, and it just sounded good.

They should have made a different film, Chen.

Quote (JW's words) from the preface to the Signature Edition full score of the suite from TPM, where he talks about Duel of the Fates (bold is mine): ... I was captivated by the stanza "Under the tongue root a fight most dread, while another rages behind in the head". This seemed to me to be mystical and ritualistic and very appropriate to accompany the great sword fight in the film. For translation into a language that would be cryptic and obscure, I first tried Celtic and Greek, before finally, with the help of a scholar at Harvard, settling on Sanskrit. I feel this beautiful old language contained vowel sounds that would be very effective for chorus. ... So, I don't see any intention to associate Eastern cultures with the bad guys in JW's work. The language was chosen because it sounded better than other (European) options, which were considered in the first instance. Then, there are scenes in the movie where Darth Maul is accompanied by the choir whispering Sanskrit words, and maybe this is what offends the writer of the article. But that is a consequence of the choice of Sanskrit for the main action piece; previous instances of Sanskrit in the movie score play the role of an anticipation, and it would have been weird to use another language.

Just came back from my second viewing, which wasn't voluntary. I promised someone I'd go with them before the film came out. Anyways, I didn't care for the film so I really buckled down and listened for the score. Here are my discoveries/thoughts. There is probably some old news in here, but I'm not reading through 16 pages right now to cross reference. The best, or at least most audible, unreleased music, as far as I can tell, is when: - Rey runs the training course (Rey's theme does summersaults- best unreleased cue) - Kylo Ren's helmet is reforged (KOR motif and other stuff) - The Knights of Ren appear on Pasaana (KOR motif and timpani) - Lando arrives with reinforcements (Don't quite know what the fuss is all about with this one. It's a good cue but hardly jaw dropping, and it would certainly disturb the coherence of the OST.) Two source cues at least, likely both by Lin-Manuel Miranda: - Pasaana festival - Oma Tres' bar There were a lot of tracked moments that I realized the first time, and a few more now: - Return to Tatooine ostinato from AOTC when Poe talks to Zorri - Finn's Confession opening (from TFA which came from TPM) when he talks to Jannah about deserting the First Order - Darth Vader's Death from ROTJ when Rey enters the Death Star II throne room (sounds like an old recording to me, but it's hard to tell) - Possibly some material from TLJ from scenes on Ahch-To, although not explicitly stating any themes related to the island (when Rey, Finn and Poe are in the asteroid field after leaving Pasaana) - That little string line we hear once Han, Chewie and Finn land on Starkiller base from TFA (forget when it plays, but I know it occured sometime after they leave Kijimi) This is what I heard in the cinema based on my pretty good memory of the Star Wars scores. Anyways, of all the terrific score in the film there was one part that stood out for me the most, and it's kind of obscure. It's a non-thematic moment, and it's brief. Nonetheless, it underscores my favourite scene of the film and carried the most emotion for me. It's the devastating horns towards the end of the FYC track Advice, when Han talks to Ben. This moment in particular occurs when he throws his lightsaber into the ocean. It just really hit home for me, and my highlighting of this moment is certainly not to throw shade at any other part of the score, which I've obviously been listening to repeatedly since it came out.

Williams almost certainly chose Sanskrit for Duel of the Fates (which is an action cue, not one depicting evil) because he described it as being like watching a religious ritual. And Sanskrit is a mainly liturgical language. It's also a very old language (over 3000 years), appropriate for religious-style events that supposedly happened a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. @artguy360 is right that the main baddies' music in the saga is in the European tradition. I would also add that their harmonic language is also forged in western techniques of the 20th century, namely octatonic, hexatonic, and Hungarian minor scales as the raw materials that contrast with techniques from major scales, minor scales, and modes for the good guys' music. Also consider source music in the OT - swing music plays in the seedy cantina, and rock music and baroque music inhabit the underworld of Jabba's palace, and those musics are western constructions as well. So no, I don't believe there's any glaring issue with the bad-guy music in Star Wars. @Falstaft (hiatus til TROS)'s Post article was miles ahead of this one.

Yes, I did, actually! Where is it?! Fuck your parents! Fuck the new one! We want the tablecloth. NOW!!!!!

It draws me in 100% every single time. When the first foreshadowings of the iceberg come (with the crow's nest I think) I'm always almost surprised, like "oh yeah, all that is stil coming! Awesome!"

That's not true.

I really can't believe they removed most of that music from the film but that's why it wasn't included on the FYC. Little did we know at the time that Abrams was still tinkering with the film after they released the first clip.

yeah but we can sort of work with it for fan edits

It's not hard to find at all https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01833Q6AI/

Not that I can detect. The OST is not in order obviously. I would say most of the music on either presentation is intact just the FYC is chronological. Big tracks from memory - These are the soaring thematic highlights - Major components of the main theme are developed in these cues Gehenna (OST 2) = Fly by/German Trench (FYC 3) 1917 (OST 1) = Tobacco Tin (FYC 8) Night Window (OST 5) = Night Window (FYC 10) Sixteen Hundred Men (OST 16) = From Devons to Mackinse (FYC 16) Come back to us (OST 18) = Ending (FYC 17) These are the action and suspense highlights Up the Down Trench (OST 2) = Trench to the Yorks (FYC 2) Engalnder (OST 14) = Clock Chime to River Jump (FYC 13)

I feel like whenever people are talking about "JWFan's negativity", they are really talking about the 5 or so toxic members that we all have on ignore.

Based on all the passionate praise Williams repeatedly gives Daisy Ridley on his interviews, it is fair to assume he must have refused to provide a love theme for her with another man.

Shut up Frenchie

I suspect Williams just understands (as evidenced by bringing the theme out at every concert for the encore) that fans love the Imperial March and thought it would be a nice gesture to include it on the final soundtrack. Admittedly it makes less sense than the Yoda arrangement on the TLJ OST credits, but what can you do? The other theory (I forgot which poster floated this, but it seems the more likely explanation) is Williams just rolling all the different concert suites he regularly performs into one all-encompassing suite for future concerts, negating the need for separate performances of The Imperial March, Throne Room and Finale, Rey's Theme and The Rise of Skywalker. With this arrangement, he can perform the one suite and cover all four in one go. I just really hope we get something a little more substantial in the next few years, in the same way his revised Han Solo and the Princess followed The Last Jedi. As it stands, the final credits suite is such a monumental missed opportunity and way too copy+pastey for my liking. Not even Rey's Theme is treated to a new arrangement, which is the most shocking part of all (considering the delightful codas he wrote for her theme in the previous 2 films).

By far my least favourite of the entire franchise. TROS has elevated ROTS for me, score wise.

Probably because most of the 'deleted scenes' were just short dialogue exchanges or abandoned ideas that never amounted to anything substantial. Constable Zuvio probably had one line of dialogue directing his goons to attack Rey when she refused to give up BB8, which was rightfully deleted. But clearly there's a lot more interesting stuff from TROS that got completely turfed out (the most intriguing being the original prologue, which was apparently the Leia/Luke flashback?!) Really though, shouldn't the director be the one explaining these blatant issues? Why is the co-writer saying the VFX weren't up to scratch for these Leia scenes when that's clearly the director's decision? Other points: 1. It feels like all Abrams has done since the film came out was make excuses for his poor decisions -- surely they were blatantly obvious before releasing the film? 2. If there's a surplus of abandoned Rose/Leia scenes, Williams may have written new variations on her theme (and Leia's) in the complete sessions. Here's hoping, anyway. 3. I have no idea how Mike would assemble C&C versions of TFA or TROS with all these narrative changes during post-production. It makes all those ROTK changes Doug Adams dealt with minimal by comparison.

I don't see the big fuss with the Lando Returns cue, either. There's other unreleased cues I'd much rather have, and I'm glad the OST focused on new material anyway (as if anyone should be surprised -- JW has always done this with his sequel OST assemblies). There's lots of unreleased sequel trilogy themes that were more important to resolve the thematic development of the new characters, such as the Training montage (which has crucial new variations on Rey's/Vader's/Ren's themes) and would have made an excellent album opener after Prologue. I can totally understand why Lando Returns didn't work for the listening experience JW was creating, which builds towards an emotional climax more than a heroic one (the incoherent film is a totally different story). The real question is what the heck did Williams write for the destruction of the Sith temple and Palpatine's armada? They saw fit to replace it with Peace and Purpose from TLJ but I highly doubt this was originally unscored. Hopefully the Bluray bonus features answer some of these questions.

No, the rerecordings and placement of the older themes in Reunion was great. Yoda's theme fit the joyous tone of the victory, as did Luke & Leia for when everyone's embracing.

https://www.indiewire.com/2019/12/star-wars-rise-of-skywalker-rose-tico-kelly-marie-tran-1202199542/ Sounds about right. It felt to me not so much that Rose was sidelined (although to some extent she sure was) but that her role (like so much of this film) was chopped to pieces in the editing. It also seems to me that the attempt to keep Leia in this film proved too much of a burden. They really should have cut their loses with that, and spent their time and money on other parts of the film that clearly needed it.

Isn't it just the SW main theme?

Uhh... not sure I even really understand the basic foundation of the idea. Marauders/Pettigrew is constructed from Nimbus 2000 and Platform 9 3/4 (no, not "mischief" and "Weasleys", the Weasleys got their own proper motif in Chamber playing off of Ron's throwaway sorting melody - so looking at the actual names and usage instead of just a surface knowledge of the movies already questions the grand theory) in.. what way exactly? Because he thinks they sound somewhat alike? Also a bit too much negative Williams/Ross speculation/ignorance.

I can just hear a very prominent bassoon, but I could be wrong. I do like how much more the woodwinds seem to flourish in the mix of this score. Certainly the clearest the section has been in the sequels. Marvellous colours.

RotJ opened with too many Muppets. And then teddy bears. Neither were particularly good parts. But the story elements with Yoda, Luke, Darth Vader and The Emperor certainly carried their weight! And the space battle was excellent too. Which makes it... I suppose... half a good movie.

The historical background is interesting (I imagine not new to most members of this forum) but the most prominent "evil" themes in the Star Wars films are the Imperial March, Kylo Ren's themes, and the Emperor's Theme and all 3 are scored the the European tradition. I don't think the western = good, eastern = bad distinction is as clear as the writer argues. Nonetheless, the Star Wars scores are rooted in the classic Hollywood orchestral sound which does tend to treat things that are familiar to us in American and European orchestral language and more eastern sounds for things that are unusual, alien, mystical, and exotic. But the good vs evil = western vs eastern argument, I do not buy. Anthem of Evil and the Knights of Ren motif are two brand new examples that prove this argument to be heavily selective at best, plainly wrong at worst.

The Force Awakens This score impressed me a good deal when I first heard it, and it still gets me going whenever I return to it. John changed things up regarding his writing style, delivering a bold score anchored by a collection of themes that really hit all the right emotional and thematic notes. The fact that most of the score consists of rather harmonically sparse swirling and stabbing underscore strung together in skeletal fashion around these themes is a strength maybe, contributing to a sense of drive and urgency. This is a very good adventure score indeed. And the Jedi Steps sequence is in the running for being the very best finale John ever wrote for the franchise. The Last Jedi When I heard this score for the first time, I was underwhelmed. Perhaps Jedi Steps made my expectations too high. At any rate, I always hear something new to like when I return to this one, as infrequently as that is. Again, much of the score is underscore, which sometimes sounds a little uninspired. But there are moments of interest. And, there is a clear continuity. This score feels very professional, and serves its movie better, I think, than TFA does. Rose's Theme, though not overly strong, is very well used to ground the score with a sense of optimism amongst the dark chaos. The Rise Of Skywalker This is the most sophisticated score of the sequel trilogy. And perhaps it is the one most rewarding repeat listens. John tries to return to a more recognizably "Star Wars" sound Thematic, harmonically rich underscore is back. And there are plenty of stirring moments of melodic and harmonic interest. What is missing, at least for me, are the kind of new memorable themes we had in TFA, for instance. The new themes we do have are polished, quite lovely, but their pastoral grandeur seems a bit out of place amongst the martial and epic stuff that characterizes the rest of the score. The FYC is essential to have a full picture of the very well-rounded ways that John utilizes the existing ST themes. Perhaps it is the fault of the film, but, even with its strengths, this score feels like it is laying it on thick, like it is glossy varnish for something, lacking the inner thematic drive and direction that the very best Star Wars scores have. Nevertheless, it is a fine work indeed.

Not official ones. I am not sure if these covers will work for you, but I did them following the TFA and TLJ exemples.

Dude!

Well, basically, find a copy, then put your hands on it.

I'm not convinced the average person would have experienced many emotions during The Hobbit trilogy, no matter what music was attached to it.

Every composer needs someone to push him a little. Abrams has too much respect for Williams.

Here's what I get for that passage. Not quite the F#sus4 @Nick Parker suggested, but close! I'd call these chords quartal rather than try to force them (haha) into third-based labels of major and minor chords. I included the last chord of the preceding passage because the latter one grows out of it. The sustained chord on top is used again in bar 3, though now with C# as bass, so truly quartal as C#-F#-B-E (upper parts rearranged, but bass is the "root", a bit like with major and minor chords). Add some of Williams beloved planing of the upper chords and that's pretty much the passage, harmonically, until the last chord, which veers away from pure quartal writing. Quartal harmony is great because it kind of sits in between tonal and atonal - perfect for scenes of tension, especially when we're unsure which way a fight or battle is going to go at the moment.

He was a background alien that was in promotional shots, had 3.75" and 6" action figures, and featured in an official short story before the release of TFA. In the movie itself, he was blurry in the Rey/Finn Jakku chase for like two frames. He was TFA's Rose.

Here's a nice article about it: https://www.slashfilm.com/who-is-constable-zuvio/

How many times are we going to do this?

Titanic. Still magnificent.

Animation is not synonymous with children's entertainment. Bird and other contemporaries have been working to remove this ignorance from blind filmgoers who think animation is for kids.

Shazam had a great main theme and one of the best concert suites of the year, but overall the underscore was somewhat underwhelming and bland. That said, I would be happier if it's Wallfisch rather than Balfe.

Wilting and poverty! That’s only what we can really expect here!

This is where I feel fans go into denial about what Star Wars is, particularly the latter. Even George Lucas insists SW is a soap opera, but try telling that to tech-head fans who zealously view it more as an exercise in technical proficiency, meticulous scripty plotting and lavish production value. It's really more of a modern exploration of mythology, but I'm still on the fence whether the Disney episodes succeed at that.

I like TROS a hair more than TLJ though I like both significantly less than I like TFA. This new trilogy peaked on its first entry for me. I could stomach the re-tread, tropey-ness, and largely unoriginal story in TFA because Star Wars was back, the new characters were fun, and the movie itself had good energy. But both TLJ and TROS continued to re-package and re-interpret classic Star Wars scenarios, archetypes, plot lines, and failed entirely to do anything new beyond new Force powers. This new trilogy was far too concerned with looking backwards, repackaging nostalgia, having some meta-interplay with SW tropes, but didn't look forward enough.

Close them now.

Supposedly it had to do with child labor laws, since Dafne Keen is still underage they can only film so much with her per day/week, so they constructed the entire season to be a blend of Lyra and Will's stories instead of just following Lyra's story like the first book/movie did. I guess it kinda works. We haven't watched episode 8 yet

It's grown on me these past few days. Really, almost every new piece by a composer or musician I'm a fan of initially feels like an outsider, like it doesn't quite belong ala the new kid in town. But after a certain amount of listens, those new pieces cement themselves in my mind as part of the repertoire. I made a playlist of "nice" Williams pieces such as "Jurassic Park Theme", "Back to America", "Marion's Theme", "A New Beginning", the Star Wars love themes, and some pieces from Ann-Sophie Mutter's CD. and I added "The Rise of Skywalker" and "Farewell" to it multiple times so they would play more often. Last night, I went for a long winter walk listening to that plat list. It definitely now sounds like it belongs on a Williams set list. I had the list playing on random, and I found myself hoping one of the new pieces would come up next.

Over a few episodes in and Goransson continues to prove a great successor to John Williams' original guiding spirit with Star Wars. What excellent, non-awful work. I really wanna watch the show!