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It's so weird because, in the case of Abrams, the admiration would seem to be at odds with the results. Abrams can't say enough good things about Williams, talks about growing up with his music, spoke about how surreal it was getting to work with him, etc. That somehow doesn't translate over to the films he worked on, especially with TROS. I don't doubt Abrams when he says the things he does concerning Williams, but it's just hard to rectify the discrepancy when you getting to work with your childhood hero somehow equates to insufferably moving around, cutting up, and dialing out their pieces of music. You know, for the previous 2 ST films, whenever I heard someone say stuff like "there was no good new music, the only good stuff were the old returning themes," I would usually just chalk it up to that person either not having familiarized themselves with the score enough, having not paid attention well enough during the film, or them choosing to hear only what they wanted to hear (not to say you can't dislike the ST scores, but to say there is "zero good new music" in them, I mean, come on). But with this film, I totally get why someone would walk away with that feeling and don't blame them in the slightest. The massive moments of musical prominence in this film are almost all entirely given to older themes: Yoda's theme as Luke lifts the X-Wing, the Imperial March as the Star Destroyers are assembled, the main titles as Lando's fleet arrives, the Force theme as Rey hears the voices of the Jedi, etc. It's absolutely bonkers how little the new material is able to shine.

I think we all dreaded the sound team from TFA returning, and for good reason. Neither they nor Abrams show Williams any respect with his score, unlike Johnson and his sound team (who went to great lengths to protect and showcase John's music). Johnson got Star Wars. Abrams didn't have a clue.

hopefully it's S:TepMom

I don't care about the award in the slightest, but i find it fascinating that all major media (and people from that sphere) describe this score (and Chernobyl) with adjectives that are the total opposite of what the thing is. Alive? Freshest? Made you get into the character? They basically say what they want it to be, what it really *is* starts to become a rather fascinating question (i had a typically lengthy exchange with Thor about it that went nowhere). The score is, as i said, mostly static and more decorative than actively shaping any narrative by musical means. What makes all these guys go gaga over it...i don't know. But it sure is a sign of coming apocalypse.

"They Will Come" and the end of "Reunion" were two other moments that stuck out to me where I imagined they could have been really great in the film when listening to the soundtrack, but they're just kinda there even though they're among the more prominent cues. It's not that exciting watching them to go into battle, it's not that moving watching those three hug at the end. And I agree that beyond lacking anything emotionally, very little sticks out technically either in terms of highlighted sync points or score against memorable shot sequencing. Lando's fleet is one of those things where the timing of the music with the reveal just makes it work (along with familiarity, obviously), even though as a story beat, who cares. I can think of other moments I like such as the low brass when Kylo Ren chucks the lightsaber, the light side Kylo theme when he zips into frame at Exegol. Rey hearing the Jedi voices is elegantly scored. But it's tough when even as a die-hard JWFan I'm grasping for straws.

The film did not have a breakout score moment. JJ bungled it. Ep7 had Jedi Steps. Ep8 had The Spark. Ep9 could have been the Victory fanfare. But JJ botched the edit. I would have used the crescendo of the theme to show the departing Rebel fleet and then shots of several planets celebrating over that theme with almost no VFX. That would have been a breakout score moment.

The only thing I would say is it was never really publicly acknowledged or advertised that this was Williams’s last Star Wars. It was a big deal on this forum only and in general I don’t think people seemed to notice or care. There was probably more publicity around his Force Awakens score than this one (not that anybody’s watching 60 Minutes and Tavis Smiley either). But idk, the film was basically a non-event too. I might have appreciated if Disney put out “The Rise of Skywalker” as a single with a corny John Williams appreciation video on YouTube during the release, just to know somebody in charge gave a shit about his scores, but I have a hard time seeing how that would have helped his Oscar chances any more than “The Last Goodbye” helped The Hobbit.

I don't know any specifics, but I think there's a lot of one hand not talking to the other stuff going on at WB, especially when it comes to Potter stuff, which eventually had its own division created. It's very possible they sent him an outdated music stem from before overlays were added, then later found the right stem to give to the LTP people and never let him know about it. All three scores, despite being recording relatively close to each other time wise, have vastly different archives requiring Mike to follow a pretty different process for each score. Each score had something we wanted that didn't turn up, but each score also had something turn up didn't even know existed beforehand so that was cool. In the end everything major and important is included and that was the most important, that and his total rebuild of the HP1 score so the studio now has 24/192 versions of it all instead of using the same 24/44.1 masters created in 2001 they had been using.

The harpsichord take that was used in the film was not found on any of the elements Mike had, so he used a different take rather than having no harpsichord at all.

I am told this sold extremely well, better than expected, which is wonderful news. It's pretty great that JW has fans for all eras of his work, and that the labels can continue to work on scores from all his periods rather that one era being such a better seller they might have to make choices about what to expand. It really feels like every score the man ever wrote will be expanded by Mike within the next 10 years - or less!

I've always been a huge JW fan so I'm glad I found you guys

The score doesn't have any weight in the film whatsoever. It's painful hearing them butcher it in the film because you can tell Williams was writing his heart out to fit whatever scene he was given to work with, large chunks of intricately synced action scenes and whatnot, and it's all for nothing because it's mixed like it was an afterthought.

Rabbit and Rogue by Danny Elfman Eleven Eleven by Danny Elfman Hubris: Choral Works by John Powell Seeing as current Hollywood doesn't offer much that is becoming of Elfman's style, I'd be content if he focused his efforts on writing more concert works at this point in his career. His latest film scores, with a few pleasant exceptions, seem to muffle his talents in favour of a more restrained (?) sound, which is antithetical to his musical coinage in the first place. His concert works are a great opportunity for him to be his best, which is more fun for everyone. Loved taking in the ballet and violin concerto this latest listen. As for Powell, I would certainly like to see him try to hit the concert hall over the big screen in the next few years. Hubris is legendary beyond words!!! Probably my most played album of the past year.

Those are what they have in stock right now, I guess. And HA2 is anything but boring!

Joker is not much better. Mostly static, immovable cello/synth spheres that do not change much from beginning to end, neither in tempo nor content. Works as stylish decoration, adds zero to the proceedings, which is exactly what so many people claim it does in spades. It sounds like eastern music for Samurai sitting together in Zen-like meditation. Not like some crazy mental transformation from depressed man to mythic antagonist. This is a very reductive statement. Zimmer's scores are, even for the Batman movies, much easier to grasp and put into narrative boxes.

Seems like JJ, in all his fanboyism, thought it was enough for Williams just to be involved in the film, like his name was more important than his work. Johnson was more interested in actually collaborating with Williams. Of course, TFA is still a masterpiece to my ears and the best of the three in score, but it’s faults (low mixing, short/choppy cues) speak to that different approach. I think TLJ has more going on under the hood.

There must be something wrong with me because I think the score is fantastic, it works great in a movie (that I really liked!), and equally well, if not better on the album.

I don't have a problem with this person liking or not the score. As I've said here, I consider it an effective score. My problem is with him calling it "fresh and new", when clearly there's nothing really that fresh about the Joker score. When you follow the Oscars, the impression is that such is their antipathy and contempt for Williams and/or traditional scores and composers, and such is the desire on innovating the world of film music, bringing "new and innovative" voices every year, that they give nominations and awards to utter shit like the scores of Lion, Moonlight, Chernobyl, etc. It's like if they are embarrassed for traditional orchestral music, and will only give awards to scores that do everything to escape this pattern. That's why I still think a score made of the sounds of my own farts would make these clueless morons fall in love with.

Yes, he did. I'm pretty sure that was Chappy.

I'm sure it'll be more listenable!

Cheers guys... Jurassic Shark Thanks for that link... Just bought myself a copy... Thank you so much 🍾

You haven't figured out much then! Here's both CD editions, and the vinyl edition. https://en.imusic.dk/page/search?query=the+rise+of+skywalker

@TSMefford Why would the sound guys edit in a slightly different harpsichord take - that would be purely a musical decision. It doesn't make sense when it's replacing something that was already there. It just seems to me that the most reasonable explanation is that it was a different take that isn't represented on the LLL set and probably because it's barely noticeable to humans.

Here's the thing. Inserts that ARE included were intended or recorded to be inserted by Williams. The harpsichord was (as far as I remember) inserting by the SFX guys, probably pulled from the stems of another cue or take. This makes it a sound editorial change and not an official Williams insert. The goal was to represent Williams' original intentions that were recorded. Hence the missing percussion alternate of Sir Cadogan. It's a slippery slope when you ask for the film versions. The pure film versions that include everything from editorial would also include tons of edits. Some fine, some nasty. For example, with "Snowball Fight", the sound guys dropped several stems very roughly and left only the strings to close the track: https://clyp.it/mhxx0wwf?token=bef38a8ec179434279d7e12a793ad993 I'd much prefer having the full original recording. That being said, I prefer ALSO having the chopped up and remixed film versions to compare and learn what was done to them and why to have them fit the final film. In the case of a label score release...an Album is not the proper place to put these things. If only all the Potter films came with official Isolated Scores. That would be a perfectly acceptable place for that.

I like his Spider-man scores more!

He's referring to the obviously incomplete digital masters Mike used instead of the analog tapes. And probably wondering why they're so incomplete that Mike had to use wrong takes or pull things from the OST master. Come on, Warner, this was only recorded 16 years ago in the digital age, it's not like it's a 1953 score with one person alive who was there in the booth.

Not at all!

Let's call it a collage then.

It's flying off the shelves!

Fart trombones have been a regular feature of Zimmer's scores for a decade now.

Oh boy! Think I recognize them all this time...:

Here's a new batch ! I think this one is a bit harder ^^ @Jurassic Shark @Falstaft (hiatus til TROS @BrotherSound 11. 12. 13. 14. 15. 16. 17. 18. 19. 20.

Just wait ten years until it's reissued with a 15 sec additional bonus track!

Wouldn't take it that literally. Probably just like LLL - they put out releases when they're ready.

Here you go!

So did they turn this story into Balto?

And the cue title is still 3M13 - Sir Cardogan "for Dufay Ensemble & Percussion" , but the OST/LLL take has zero percussion while one of the two film versions does.

It's a great theme that sounds like Giacchino. The closet the series has gotten to wholesome major key music since A New Hope

yeah it sounds very Williams

I only hear Williams-esque beauty.

The Barbican Centre in London had a special 'Beethoven Weekender' last Saturday and Sunday to celebrate the 250th anniversary year of Beethoven's birth. Over the weekend all nine of Beethoven's symphonies were performed by five of the great UK orchestras (Bournemouth Symphony, City of Birmingham Symphony, Royal Liverpool Philharmonic, Royal Northern Sinfonia and The Hallé) and introduced by broadcaster and Beethoven aficionado John Suchet (the brother of Poirot actor David). I went to the second day (Sunday) and it was really fantastic value. The day tickets cost only £25 and you could attend as many or as few concerts as you wanted throughout the day. On the Sunday the RNS under Lars Vogt played symphonies seven and eight before The Hallé and Hallé Choir performed number nine under Sir Mark Elder. All the seating was unreserved so you could sit wherever you wanted. As well as the symphonies, there were performances of Beethoven's sonatas played by Tai Murray and on Beethoven's own violin by Daniel Sepec at Milton Court, as well as an exhibition featuring pages from Ludwig's original manuscripts, his ear trumpet and other items. In the pit theatre the Carducci Quartet played selections from his string quartets, interspersed with extracts from Beethoven's letters read by actor Simon Callow (Four Weddings and a Funeral). They even screened episodes of the bizarre 1970s cartoon Ludwig about a giant egg thing that likes Beethoven.

I like a lot of what you’ve done. I just think the Prequel Trilogy part feels like a non sequitur. Maybe just play Anakin’s Theme over vignettes of Admiral Ackbar.

Any consideration into adding themes from WAR HORSE?

It doesn't get much better than this... On the subject of Rule Britannia, for me the definitive performance is by Elizabeth Bainbridge with The New Philharmonic Orchestra, conducted by Arthur Bliss:

The funny thing about timpani is that basically everyone else in the orchestra has someone seated next to them they can turn to if they get lost, but the timpanist is always on their own. And it’s often quite noticeable if they do!

Complaining is our national sport.

It might be more than the times I've actually listened to it.