Leaderboard

Looks like there's more of the cue list known now! Seems https://franklehman.com/starwars/ was updated recently with more of the cue list! These are the newly added cues that I noticed: 4M1C 7M28 Seeing Sights 7M44 Name That Tune 8M1 Approaching the Emperor #2 8M4C1o 8M4C2 8M4D 8M5B 8M8C Chorus 8M17 Duel of the Fates Excerpt Chant 1 Chant 2 xM4

So it's going to be extremely difficult to get through and will take intense preparation on my part to accomplish listening to it? Sounds about right. Lol.

Interesting! The ‘Seeing Sights’ title still got used for the FYC, even though it’s 7M32 Make the Sacrifice. Ah, looks like an earlier version of 7M20 Approaching the Throne! ⛔️ Warning! Long-winded explanation of the TROS cue numbering ahead. ⛔️ So, if my understanding of this unusual complicated cue list is correct, JW started scoring the rumored 3 hour 2 minute cut back in March 2019, and it was spotted as nine “reels” of roughly 20 minutes each (9 x 20 = 3 hours). This is why we have the seemingly nonsensical placement of 9M3 Bows and 9M5Alt Return to Tatooine after the end credits in reel 8. However, as the film was edited and gradually got shorter, the reels were adjusted, as seen in the spreadsheet for the November 11th cut. So, by the time 8M16 End Credits was recorded, the film no longer had 9 reels, but at least a couple reel 9 cues had already been recorded. The end credits would have originally been planned for 9M7, or an earlier version may have even been recorded. The numbers from 1-9, and 1-12 in at least one case (reel 5), are what I believe was the original spotting. Higher numbers were then used for revisions, definitely for everything recorded in October and November, and possibly earlier than that. (This also accounts for why there’s, for example, a 6M20 Sabre Toss insert for 7M2 Rey Meets Luke). The lower numbers are meant to be sequential, but the higher numbers are not: we may not know everything that happened behind the scenes, but it’s pretty hard to imagine 8M13 Ben to Rey being followed immediately by 8M14 Horn Solo and 8M15 End Credits. So, getting back to the original point, I was already expecting to see an earlier ‘Approaching the Throne’ numbered 8M1, 8M2, or 8M3. It appears everything in the entire final confrontation was scored at least twice, first with 8M1, 8M2, 8M3, etc., and later with revisions for reel 7: 7M20-7M44, and this appears to add further confirmation of that. I think JW may have switched over to even numbers at some point, too: there’s not a single odd number 1M20+ or 7M30+, out of 10 known cues.

My guess is it's a combination of things. His regular collaborators (directors) became increasingly arthouse-centric, and made smaller and smaller films. King Kong could have perhaps reinforced a place for him in mainstream blockbuster cinema, but that didn't pan out. Both his writing process and aesthetic also don't seem to line up with how big movies are made these days. He belongs to the older generation of composers a la Williams, who just aren't as compatible with industry practices anymore. Williams could probably get away with doing it his way because of his industry clout, but no other producer is going to put up with that level of patience. Shore is also not LA-based or LA-centric. Big budget Hollywood studio pictures go to the industry regulars who are working in studios across the parking lot, spending 24 hours revising and reworking cues to ever-changing green screen footage. I also have a gut-feeling that Shore doesn't want to do big movies like that anymore. It really seems like the Hobbit films more or less wiped him out, if not aged him quite a bit. I think he's always preferred the benefit of time to work (with plenty of his famed garden strolls). There's just no way he'd be interested in jumping on the fast-paced trains of Marvel and like. And he probably prefers writing small little pieces for indie films so that he can spend more time on his concert work. He's earning enormous back end from the Middle-Earth stuff anyway, so it's not like he really needs work. I don't think the LOTR sound is at all dated or a thing of the past, BUT it is a very specific sound for a specific kind of film. And those films just aren't made anymore, so no one in big Hollywood is looking to replicate it. You'd probably have better luck finding that in video games.

https://www.amazon.com/-/es/Kevin-Griffiths-Light-Symphony-Orchestra/dp/B08YP7GKCK/

With all the discussion about this bonkers cue list, I wanted to share some more: So no one else has to, I’ve spent some time going through the cue list with the various early rumors and novelization, and I’ve been able to come up with a pretty good idea where some of the unknown pieces may fit. Filial Fencing is most likely 1M2. The rumors all point to the Luke and Leia flashback duel originally starting the movie. Technically, the word “filial” pertains to parent-child relationships, rather than siblings, but there’s no known scene that would fit that definition. It’s now known that the music for the appearance of dark Rey is Filial Fencing. It may seem surprising that the Luke and Leia flashback was originally scored with something much more suspenseful and dramatic, but the audience was not originally supposed to understand at first who they were seeing duel, and that it was friendly rather than life-or-death. The Eye of the Webbish Bog, a.k.a. The Oracle, was an elaborate and bizarre puppet creature that was originally intended to be encountered by Kylo on Mustafar, and it’s been confirmed it was filmed. This would have originally happened in 1M6 Ren’s Entrance, and probably also 1M15 Vader’s Castle (essentially 1M6R). The novelization contains an Ajan Kloss (the forest planet) scene that was likely what 2M3 The Wisdom of Maz was written for: Maz goes to talk to Rey at her workbench and offers some platitudes like “You won’t know how strong you are until you know how strong you have to be” and “To find the darkest part in the galaxy you will need to face the darkest part of yourself”. The novelization also contains a second Maz scene not long afterwards where she talks to Leia briefly about Han and encourages her to give the lightsaber to Rey, which leads me to believe More Maz is most likely 2M5. Oddly, ‘The Speeder Chase’ is comprised of 3M1 Before the Chase and 3M3 [untitled], with no known 3M2. If there was ever a 3M2 written or planned, it would appear it’s a brief scene where Lando attempts to get to the Falcon, only to discover it’s already been captured by stormtroopers. This scene was mentioned in early rumors and is in the novelization. More to come…

To be clear, "veto" was my word, not Keith Lockhart's, and I apologize. Never meant to cause any confusion! I did find the interview in question, it was from the podcast "The Answered Question" from WCRB, with Brian McCreath. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-74-keith-lockhart-and-charles-dutoit/id1046679914?i=1000385851331 Around the 7:45 mark, here is Lockhart's exact quote: "...We brought them up to John, because of course we wanted his blessing on anything we--, some of the things I honestly think he didn't remember, because you do 110 films, you're gonna remember everything? But occasionally there would be something where he'd say, 'Hmm, no, I never really liked that,' in which case we X'd it off our list." So, no, it's not as if the recordings were in the can and JW came along with a big red stamp that said NO! But it does sound as though there may have been different selections on the album, had they not consulted with him.

GEMA doesn’t have the cues from The Patriot, but most (all?) of the source is in the sheet music: Composed by JW 4M6 The Tavern 4M7 More Tavern 5M1 At Camp 6M1 Fort Drums 7M4 Ann’s Wedding 8M9 Battle Drums 9M1B [untitled - British drums] Arranged by JW 1M7 Yankee Doodle 2M2 Prince Eugene March 2M2A British Grenadiers 4M1 British Grenadiers 6M3 British Grenadiers The SESAC repertory does have the Patriot cues (in order!), but seems to have just accounted for several of the source cues as ‘Patriot Source’:

Seems kinda mean to me to wish for the livelihood of many people to go to toilet. Also, some of us rather like scale, spectacle and action in our movies and for that you do need studio money and resources. You can't do that on indie resources a-la "New American Wave" filmmaking of the early 1970s. I have no issue with big-budgeted extraveganzas. Its just the trend towards jovial, wink-at-the-audience tone that I disapprove of.

Or a suite from I Passed for White.

deleted post

Scores get drowned out in the noise of these funny book flicks anyway. Not worth the bother.

I simply don't get why Howard Shore should write a score for a superhero movie. The Last decade has proven that this is not a genre for scores of high musical quality. To me even Patrick Doyle's efforts for Thor were terribly uninteresting.

Fran Leibowitz had an interesting perspective on this

I like this one better:

Ah, that hadn’t even occurred to me! Guess this was to prevent spoilers for the music prep staff rather than the musicians. The teaser with the emperor reveal was at least a couple months before the first session, but they would have already begun preparing the scores.

Interesting, so it was an actual cue title after all. I wonder if that means Coming Together and Rescue were also prototype cue titles that haven't turned up yet? I don't think it's 100% confirmed what cue title comprises FYC Coming Together either (if we believe the November edit, it's 7M30 More Action). It's crazy how many cues exist for that final act that went unused/were revised. And we know it all got recorded because fragments were tracked all across the film! This is a quick guess of what the major stretches of music in the final act are covered by: 7M12 Seven Twelve (OST Battle of the Resistance Part A) 7M12A Horses #2 (OST Battle of the Resistance Part B) 7M20 Approaching The Throne (OST Approaching the Throne Part A) 7M30 More Action (OST Approaching the Throne Part B) The Crowd Joins In (OST Approaching the Throne Part C??) 7M21 Parents (FYC Parents with artificial ending) Coming Together ??? (FYC Coming Together, cue title unclear) Hero Fight ??? (unreleased Rey/Ren fight sequence) 8M8 On Their Knees (only partially used) 7M36 Dunkirk (self-explanatory, unreleased) 7M28 Seeing Sights (OST The Force Is With You Part A) 7M38 I Am All The Sith (OST The Force Is With You Part B) 8M10 Success and Sliding (FYC Rescue) 8M11A Dropping The Sabre (OST Farewell Part A) 8M14 Ben to Rey (OST Farewell Part B) Of course, any of these could be exchanged for any of the following! 7M32 Make The Sacrifice 7M44 Name That Tune 8M1 Approaching the Emperor #2 8M4 Psalm of the Sith 8M5 Jumping The Chain 8M4C1* 8M4C2 8M4D 8M5B 8M7 Big Ship Blows Up 8M8C Chorus Chant 1 Chant 2 Emperor's Attack Rey and Ren The Dunkirk Shot Hopefully we can get cue numbers for those name-only cues someday. That would help pin things down... Wild speculation but I wonder if 8M4C1 and 8M4C2 are two different versions of choral overlays for 8M4 Psalm of the Sith, possibly the first half of OST Anthem of Evil? Considering the usage of C in 8M8C Chorus likely represents Choir, it might be the same with 8M4. This is so confusing!! So if we have Approaching the Emperor #2 from the prototype edit of reel 8, does that mean there was an Approaching the Emperor #1 at some stage? Maybe an early version of the scene in reel 1, later retitled Approaching the Nursery? Or simply JW getting confused? The #2 presumably doesn't designate revision in this instance, because 8M1 corresponds to the prototype version of reel 8 that JW initially scored (rather than reel 7, like the rest of the revised climax cues). Leaving odd numbers spare as placeholders was probably an insurance policy for inevitable inserts/revisions requested later. He was probably trying to avoid a repeat of what happened with his cue numbering on TFA. Clearly he started that score with a 'conventional' cue numbering system and it ended up like this: 1M3A R The First Order Approaches 1M3A The First Order Approaches 1M3B R The Attack On The Village 1M3B The Attack on the Village 1M3C I've Seen Too Much 1M3D The Attack on the Village 1M4 R The Arrival of Kylo Ren 1M4 The Arrival of Kylo Ren 1M4A Introductions 1M4B Landing 1M5 Alt. 2 Insert The Scavenger 1M5 Alt. 2 The Scavenger 1M5 Alt. New Intro The Scavenger 1M5 Alt2 A Insert The Scavenger 1M5 Alt2 R The Scavenger 1M5 The Scavenger (with fixes) Could explain why he jumped to higher numbers and new titles for revisions this time, renaming rather than just appending R to the existing cue. Return to Tattooine is the only cue actually named ALT in the title. If I had to speculate, that probably means JW himself wrote two versions concurrently (rather than being a revision requested by JJ).

So a reference to Duel of the Fates was indeed recorded! Seems I was wrong in assuming it was BS. Also now it appears we know for certain that the chanting is technically part of the score, not just sound effects added in post.

As far as I understand, if it's been published, you just get the parts from the publisher, declare what you want to do with them (i.e. record and sell the performance), and pay the resulting fees. Then you can record and sell your performance, and Williams gets his share. No need for asking Williams personally, because that's what the publisher is for. If it hasn't been published, that won't work (obviously). Instead, you either get approval from Williams (and perhaps, if he's supportive, also sheet music). Or you get hold of the sheet music in some other, "unofficial" way, or transcribe it yourself, produce an unlicensed recording, and hope Williams won't care. And they're probably right. Not many people buy this stuff. Recordings are expensive. And even if the parts are available, getting them plus recording rights can be expensive, too.

.

Those track titles are eye-rollingly bad in the way they beat you over the head with their turgid solemnity. Nearly four dozen of these things, with their deadly serious metaphors and trying-to-sound-smart wordplay (there are admittedly a handful of normal sounding titles sprinkled in there).... gag me with a fucking spoon already. More and more, this whole Snydercut project just seems like a colossal masturbatory exercise for everyone involved.

Hello folks! I've made a few quick updates to The Music of The Mandalorian in the past two weeks. First of all, I've included Disco Stu's Chapter 4 video with the previous isolated score videos that had been posted, so as to keep them all together. Also posted is a breakdown of the amount of music in each episode, as well as how much has been released vs. unreleased. The post links to CGCJ's spreadsheet and includes a chart indicating estimated times. Aside from that there are a few small changes to the theme catalogue and layout. Most significantly, I have clarified what I hope the site will cover in the future. The intention is for all the music from under the Mando umbrella, including The Book of Boba Fett, Ahsoka, and Rangers of the New Republic, to be catalogued, regardless of whether or not Goransson will score the concurrent shows mentioned. I'd expect Goransson would have had some idea of the showrunners' plan from the start, so I have high hopes for his involvement going forward, especially if they want to achieve musical continuity. Barring an announcement to the contrary, I'm anticipating him to score the upcoming Boba Fett show, having already established a strong theme (which played rather bombastically over the show reveal, no less). In any case, I look forward to seeing what happens! I'm still reviewing some previous write-ups and revising the timestamps, but I hope to finish majority of those things by Easter, or thereabouts. I'll post about any more updates here as they happen. If you're a fan of the show and score (or know someone who is), you're welcome to take a look. Feedback is always welcome. Thanks and cheers!

I can't imagine a SW movie would have to credit a cue from another SW movie, as Disney owns the rights to all of it. If they plonked in a cue from something another studio owns, then they'd have to licence and credit it. I think that's how it works.

Chen G., have you actually read the material they're allowed to adapt? It's only told by Tolkien in VERY broad strokes. They have a very, very, very general outline about some events that took place over a long period of time, and that's it. They don't have any novels or even proper stories to base this on. These TV writers (the second set, not the ones that got fired) are going to have to make up most of the plot particulars, a lot of characters, and almost all of the dialogue to make a series out of this. This isn't "adaptation". It's "inspired by", at best. I think even Shippey said something along these lines. And yes, Tolkien would have hated it.

I would guess they have straight reprises. Recall that this score was entirely composed and recorded remotely during pandemic. With often several different players having to be recorded separately, I think they would have avoided the cost and effort and used straight recordings where possible. So I expect these actual cues to be used in the film. Also, I think the inconsistent crediting might be a right's issue. For example I don't know if Star Wars is obliged to credit Burning Homestead or Binary Sunset when they track that all the time. I think HBO Max being a different entity compared to WB might also have something to do with it. Basically the usage of a cue contractually mandates a credit in the movie's end title or something.

Two classics from the 80s: John Williams - The Empire Strikes Back OST Ennio Morricone - Once upon a time in America OST

At least it's got the Temple of Doom End Credits! Edit: Strange that all HP tracks except one is grouped together. The Tintin tracks could also have been together. Disc 1 1 Overture (From "The Cowboys") 2 End Credits (From "Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom") 3 Main Theme (From "Jurassic Park") 4 The Flight to Neverland (From "Hook") 5 The Chamber of Secrets (From "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets ") 6 Fawkes the Phoenix (From "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets") 7 Witches, Wands and Wizards (From "Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban") 8 The Duel (From "The Adventures of Tintin. The Secret of the Unicorn") 9 March (From "Superman") 10 Star Wars - The Force Awakens (Suite for Orchestra): I. March of the Resistance 11 Star Wars - The Force Awakens (Suite for Orchestra): II. Rey's Theme 12 Star Wars - The Force Awakens (Suite for Orchestra): III. Scherzo for X-Wings 13 Star Wars - The Force Awakens (Suite for Orchestra): IV. The Jedi Steps & Finale Disc 2 1 Theme (From "JFK") 2 Escapades (From "Catch Me If You Can") For Alto Saxophone & Orchestra: I. Closing in 3 Escapades (From "Catch Me If You Can") For Alto Saxophone & Orchestra: II. Reflections 4 Escapades (From "Catch Me If You Can") For Alto Saxophone & Orchestra: III. Joy Ride 5 Main Theme (From "Born on the Fourth of July") 6 Viktor’s Tale (From "The Terminal") 7 Opening Credits (From "The Adventures of Tintin. The secret of the unicorn") 8 Nimbus 2000 (From "Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone")

Part of the cue list: Chant 1 Chant 2 It appears that I was right in thinking that the Sith Eternal cult chants were done as part of the recording of the score. Lucky guess, huh?

You've just answered your own question.

So this will be the third movie where we'll listen to Beautiful Lie, the first two being BvS and WW84. It's pratically DCEU's main theme so far.

Shorely you jest.

Technically it's hard for a Star Wars expansion not to coincide with some anniversary... 2022: ANH 45th Anniversary, AOTC 20th Anniversary, TLJ 5th Anniversary 2023: ROTJ 40th Anniversary 2024: TPM 25th Anniversary, TROS 5th Anniversary 2025: ESB 45th Anniversary, ROTS 20th Anniversary, TFA 10th Anniversary In fact, 2021 is the only year without an anniversary for any JW SW film until 2026.... it would be rather amusing if they decided to drip-feed the 9 expansions over the next 5 years, specifically avoiding each anniversary. But as pointed out ad nauseam, if the best they could muster for SW & ESB's 40th were lazy vinyl reissue, expansions clearly aren't front of mind for Disney.

Because 300 people died reaching its summit?

That’s interesting but I don’t really buy it. I mean...he’s scored movies like “The Last Mimzy”? Or the 3rd Twilight movie? Those projects interested him? Those filmmakers interested him? Bob Shaye? Come on. I was really looking forward to his “Pete’s Dragon” score. What happened there? He was attached forever and I maybe heard somewhere he had started work on it. But he’s replaced? I’d still love to hear his King Kong score or what was written/recorded anyways. I remember Doug Adams saying it was some of his best work. Sometimes you wonder about the working relationships filmmakers have. Take David Fincher & Martin Scorsese. They both use Howard Shore multiple times. Fincher moves on to Alexander Desplat for Benjamin Button and then Reznor/Ross for Social Network & everything after. Then Marty makes 3-4 films in a row with Shore, the last being one of the best and we’ve had squat since. I was hoping we’d see them reunite on the Irishman but... Film music has become such a sorry state. I was watching “The Mask of Zorro” the other day and man James Horner knocked that one out of the park. But you don’t hear scores like that anymore. When was the last time you left the theatre humming the score on your way out? Now everything is all percussion & synth smaple strings & anvil pounding and bwaaaahhhhhssss. Remember when Michael Giacchino represented the hope that things were maybe changing? Man. Now it seems he scores on auto pilot like Elfman does. I didn’t cry when my father past away but when John Williams goes? Oh my. I’ll be a wreck. I dread it sometimes, I do. Thinking that there will be no new notes ever composed by that musical god in flesh form. Man...

Given some people were quick to jump to some of the key new sequences of the film when the mishap occurred, I'm not surprised the credits were skimmed through as well. The lack of "Clark Kent, Reporter" (What Are You Going To Do When You Are Not Saving The World?) is making me concerned that specific theme isn't gonna show up, unless it's such a radical reinterpretation that it doesn't sound like its MoS counterpart. The presence of Beautiful Lie does surprise me, given they sort of made it sound like Bats was going a completely new direction sound wise. Guess MARTHA is gonna factor into this somewhere. Do wonder what the Lex material will be used for, besides in relation to all the stuff he spouted at the end of BvS.

Hollyweird, Chinafornia

An early sketch of the Approaching the Nursery cue was originally titled Approaching the Emperor. So yes, the #2 seems to refer to the Approaching the Throne cue rather than a revision of the same cue.

Have you tried LASS?

But I want more Godfathers, Conversations, Rain Men, French Connections, Untouchables, Marathon Men, Chinatowns, Taxi Drivers (no not that fucken Joker shit), Barry Lyndons, Full Metal Jackets, Deer Hunters, Bananas, Annie Halls, Manhattans and Interiors!

Thanks! Goldenthal, Wagner, and Williams are all long time influences. A funny story, the orchestra had a wimpy gong and I really wanted a classical tam-tam. I even specify at least 32 inch. During the rehearsal, there was a perfect tam-tam sitting on the side from the university orchestra. So I begged to switch to that one. We did but the percussionist was playing it way too softly for the roar I intended. Part of this was my fault because in the past, percussionists never played soft enough for me so I always asked them to whisper it for the effect I wanted (and even then they were smashing the notes). Now I had a player way too soft. So during one of the rehearsals I played the tam-tam which I've never actually played but I knew what I wanted and actually wanted to drown out the rest of the orchestra. Since none of the players had heard it like this, they thought the player lost his mind! They turned around to see me playing it and him playing another instrument (I forget what). What I didn't fully know is that the tam-tam builds up volume and was deafeningly loud after I stopped playing causing the orchestra to pause and laugh. But I got what I wanted! Sometimes you have to show them the effect you were going for. Image from a rehearsal with my 32 inch tam-tam.

Taaaaake meeee ooooon!

Considering how things are going in Hollywood these days, it's more likely they'd give the award to John Williams due to his music being "too intrusive and melodramatic".

From an orchestral commission premiered in 2019, this is the mockup though. https://clyp.it/lrlocs4p

Yeah, let great interesting music fucking rot, never to be heard, just because some stupid director rejected it 40 years ago!

Or just chop it down to fit on one CD... oh wait, Kilar already did that in 1992!

A lot of recordings from the 70s sound a lot better than most "modern" recordings.

Like discussed on another thread, I gave this wonderful recording a little help by adding a light touch of compression. I have become so picky over the years! But all the new recordings are compressed now, so it's always a bit odd to listen to an album which is not. In my case, it's because I listen mostly my music with headphones, so I appreciate less volume difference between very quiet parts and very louder ones. And my compression process is very "light".