Sandor
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Posts posted by Sandor
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When can this be ordered?
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This is said about the music in the first 10 minutes:
”The music is brilliant. It reminds me of the Original Trilogy in that it sounds a bit more retro in quality rather than being overly sharp. It specifically reminds me of some of the Bespin music.”
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And it's almost human nature to 'enjoy' seeing succesful people take a fall.
So if the great 'John Williams' hasn't written something as iconic as the soaring Flying Theme or the Raiders' March, he has failed.
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I think many reviewers associate Williams too much with instant iconic themes and will always think of Star Wars, E.T., Jurassic Park or Indiana Jones, even when he writes for an intimate drama.
If they aren't humming the main theme after seeing the film, they reason the score is boring and that -since it's John Williams- it should have stood out.
A John Williams score for this kind of film can be very effective nonetheless and I found that the music -like with Lincoln- often presents layers, details and depth, only to be discovered upon repeated listenings.
The score for The Post will likely be much more rewarding that these initial reviews indicate.
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5 minutes ago, publicist said:
You phrased it like it was a big concern (to you). Continuously so.
No I didn't, but that's what you want to make of it.
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7 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:
Again, I'm not sure what's the big issue here.
That "normal" people" would have preferred a big phat loud score a la Junkie XL over the average orchestral score they got from Elfman?
The fact that they describe this average orchestral score as "old fashioned", "a thing from the 80s"...?
I don't see where's the problem here, and frankly, I can even understand where they're coming from: Junkie XL/Zimmer's scores are noticeable. You may not like them, you may think they're awful, etc. But it's undeniable: they're noticeable, they hit you over the head again, and again and again... Whereas Elfman's score can barely be heard in the film, nor does it offer truly standout moments (the "big Batman moment" that he oversold in interviews is so buried under the SFX that it ends up being hilariously anticlimactic. And the Superman theme has been filtered through the "modern film music" sound that it ends up not making much of an impact anyway). It's not a score that demands respect. Had it been a truly great score, I doubt we would have had that many people wishing JunkieXL had returned. And if there had been, maybe, just maybe, it would have been worth discussing that. But here, I don't see why an average orchestral score being trashed by Youtubers is such a big issue.
It's not a problem, nor a 'big issue'.
It's just an observation, something to discuss, something lightweight for an internet messageboard.
Why are only 'problems' and 'big issues' valid topics? Since when has this become a girls-forum?
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16 minutes ago, Stefancos said:
I don't consider people who post Youtube comments as being normal.
Yeah, what's normal anyway?
Notice that everyone wants to be as normal as possible, but the moment you compliment them about it, they get offended: "Wow, you are so normal", doesn't do well.
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Now that I've had time to ponder over things, I've come to the following conclusion.
The critic from the more general audience is focussed firstly on Elfman's disregard for the established DC themes and overall soundscape, the work of Zimmer/RPC. The music was part of the experience for people and they miss the themes and feel of the previous scores.
If any composer had disbanded the thematic material like that, and that includes RPC composers, the critic would probably be the same.
With Elfman however, people take it up a notch and link Elfman's more traditional sound and style of writing to the lack of use of thematic material from MoS, BvS, WW, etc.
Suddenly, Elfman gets slammed for being 'more of a classical composer', 'too melodic', 'old fashioned', 'a thing from the 80's', 'producing Christmas sounds', etc.
And this is not coming from nerds like us who sit behind a computer all day. Nerds in general know a thing or two about film music and wouldn't refer to it as 'Christmas sounds'. That's what (more) 'normal' people do and -yes, yes- they post on social media, YouTube, etc. a lot. The internet hasn't been the sole home to nerdy folks like us for a long time...
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41 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:
Regarding TFA, I think the bigger issue is that people just wanted something with a darker and more sweeping gravitas. I saw many more people comparing it to the the prequel scores, which along with loving the trailer music tells me that generally people want a big, heavy sound from Star Wars....pretty normal. For all intents and purposes, the trailer music gave people that, or it at least was indicative that the film would have something along those lines, but even better because it's John Williams!
And I mean, the reaction to the score here was essentially the same, actually. A lot of us were taken aback by music that sounded a little more whimsical, a little more mellow in its emotional expression, a little more spare in its darker material with really no elaborate villainous showboating. Obviously it's still an extroverted score but it doesn't have those same kinds of lengthy highlights, really. Even Rey's Theme, though very good and well-received, packs a different sort of punch than say Across the Stars with its grandiose rubati, the ominous bridge section, generally has that more "thunderous" sound that really defined the prequels and that young people really came to associate with Star Wars.
And honestly, I think people might have been more into TFA's sound if they simply dug the new tunes, but they just didn't seem to hook people in quite the same way. Not like the audience was humming along with the Follow Me/Falcon motif for those 7 continuous minutes. Same with Justice League, if the score was catchy as all hell or had some great grooves, you wouldn't see that many people complaining. I think most people just want simple tunes and cool beats out of their blockbuster music, and that's the main thing Zimmer and RCP have over a lot of the recent orchestral scores coming out. It has more in common lately with what people like out of a good pop/rock album, and what's surprising or even wrong about that? I feel like that's actually completely the appeal of John Williams and Danny Elfman's most well-known stuff too, as well as the enduring popularity of Ride of the Valkyries, O Fortuna etc.
I agree with most -if not all- you wrote.
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1. I don't blame Zimmer. I think music -including film music- can and should be as diverse as possible, with Zimmer just doing something different than -let's say- Williams or Goldsmith. That's perfectly fine. When I said he 'hijacked' epicness, I don't mean he did this deliberately or something like that. It's just a hyperbole.
2. (Where's 2?)
3. Yes, yes.
4. 'Christmass sounds' refers to orchestral music in general. It's a common association from millennials.
5. Yes.
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7 minutes ago, publicist said:
What exactly do you want to say (i ask again)? Orchestral score like you mention are uncool since we got 'The Rock' in 1995 (at least).
I see The Rock as a game changer as well.
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10 minutes ago, Blumenkohl said:
If Danny Elfman had written a good score, this wouldn’t be a problem. It’s irreedeemable crap, he shat over his own theme, John’s theme, and even the Wonder Woman theme.
By comparison, the popular reaction to TFA was hugely positive. It’s one of the best selling film scores in the last few years.
This forum has to get it through its head that just because you have an orchestra and more notes on the page than average doesn’t mean your music is good.
I agree with your last statement (who could think or reason otherwise?), but I think it's not about whether Elfman's score is good or bad, but more that its 'old school'. The negative reactions from within the film music community are based on a lack of coherence, etc.; the lukewarm reception from general filmgoers however seems to be much more based on the overall sound a traditional symphonic score produces. I do take into account that the DC films were mainly dominated by RPC stylistics these past years and that this change may have been a tad too much. TFA didn't have that problem.
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1 minute ago, publicist said:
You honestly think a few 16 year olds on Youtube will launch million-men marches on Disney to make Star Wars sound like Wonder Woman? Come on...
Not yet, but I can see it happening to a certain extent yes.
That wasn't really the point of my post though...
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16 minutes ago, Stefancos said:
I think it's mostly because the score is such a departure from the RCP sound of the previous Zach Snyder DC films and Wonder Woman though.
That plays a part for sure, but it dawned on me that TFA was also met with disappointment since the modernistic rearrangements of Williams' themes from the trailers weren't part of the score and that score wasn't a departure from Star Wars lore.
Now again I'm talking about a large part of the film going crowd, not everyone. I know we were highly pleased by TFA and wouldn't want that trailer crap on the album or in the movie, but I'm talking millions vs. thousands here.
For millions, the trailers had an 'epicness' that traditional scoring can't achieve.
Cutthroat Island used to be 'epic'; now it's Junkie XL.
- Not Mr. Big and Pieter Boelen
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9 minutes ago, Stefancos said:
You didnt realize this has been the case for about a decade or so?
Yes, but only until this week I wasn't aware the average Joe could identify and put into words the difference between an RCP-score and a more traditional score. Never read anything negative when Silvestri scored The Avengers for example. Thought people just wouldn't be able to point out the stylistic differences. In that sense Justice League was a turnover moment for me as it is the first time I've seen an 'old school-score' take a beating for being exactly that: old school, which people nowadays label as 'Christmas sounds'.
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I was recently struck by the general outcry of negative response to Danny Elfman’s score for Justice League.
I’m aware that Elfman’s score hasn’t received a warm welcome within the film music community, citing its lack of cohesion and generic approach, but the ‘general outcry’ I’m refering to is coming more vocally from the average filmgoer, people in their teens and 20’s, an audience that has no historic connection with traditional symphonic scoring -or film music for that matter- and have been molded by cinema since the dawn of the new millennium.
The same people that were disappointed by the soundtrack of The Force Awakens, because the ‘most epic music’ wasn’t on it, refering to the music from the trailers.
Somewhere along the way Hans Zimmer and his RCP-henchmen have hijacked ‘epicness’ and redefined it for a new generation.
This has become fully apparant after reading the talkback on Elfman’s score for Justice League. I know that talkback on the internet in general should be read with the right amount of sense, reason and caution, but in this case I feel the overwhelming negative reactions do indicate something: the times have clearly changed.
“It might work in the film but didn't really enjoy it, although there are definitely some great parts. It might take having seen the film to enjoy it more. Elfman seems to be more of a classical movie score kind of guy while Zimmer has a more modern and experimental sound of his soundtracks, at least the ones I've listened to.”
“Holy shit. How can you take an epic Wonder Woman theme that was perfect......and fuck it up. Its like Wonder Woman on ice........FUCK”
“There is no Hans Superman's Theme in that soundtrack?!? WTF! This is to much melodic! We want percussions like Zimmer And XL did! That's becauce of Joss Wedon all of that shit! Snyder was going to keep Zimmer and XL... Im very sad! Even the Wonder Wonder Theme is not very good as it was in the previous movie! Im a fan of superman and he's new theme (Zimmer) is not in the soundtrack! WTF!”
“Christmas sounds.”
“This senile old narcissist ruined everything, this is the worst soundtrack in WB. He is using parts of avengers theme, hulk theme, spider-man theme and those old and obselete 70s and 80s themes and they dont belong here, and he is totally ignoring already established themes specially far superior MoS Superman theme. Instead of finishing trilogy on high note this fucking idiot 'composed' soundtrack like we are still in the 80s. Fuck you elfman and fuck whoever brought you to do this.”
“WTF IS THIS!? Im sorry but burn this soundtrack. Looks like Danny just ruined JL I haven't heard a good track yet. Theres no feel 😥”
“Warner execs, Disney shills, Joss Whedon, Geoff Johns and Danny Elfman ruined a great franchise. Bravo. You killed the JL.”
“Give us back Zimmer and JunkieXL, Fuck Elfman”
Now this is just a grab out of the plethora of reactions given by people that are indicative of the same notion: the symphonic film score -at least for this kind of film- is becoming a thing of the past.
The lukewarm reception to Elfman’s score doesn’t limit itself to the filmgoing public that turns these franchise installments into multi-million dollar hits (or flops), but is also expressed by esteemed critics.
“Meanwhile, gurgling away in the background is Danny Elfman’s score, which grabs at John Williams’s 1978 Superman theme, Elfman’s own Batman motif from the Tim Burton years, and Hans Zimmer and Junkie XL’s Wonder Woman cello riff, in a panicky fumble for something, anything, the audience might recognise or like. The result, as if it even needs to be said, is an incoherent din, and a total mismatch for Snyder’s images.”
It seems that the time when big blockbuster spectaculars were dominated by a symphonic sound is over. The modernistic approach of Zimmer has become the popular norm.
And undoubtly the soundtrack of The Last Jedi will be a letdown since the music from the trailers won’t be on it.
A traditional film score is considered old-fashioned, too melodic and –the most striking description perhaps- ‘Christmas sounds’.
Oh boy.
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I feel like a troll, but I'll answer this question seriously ok?
Blue.
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A - Top 5 Steven Spielberg movies scored by John Williams:
1. E.T. The Extra-Terrestrial
2. Raiders Of The Lost Ark
3. Close Encounters Of The Third Kind
4. Jaws
5. Schindler's List
B - Top 5 John Williams scores for Steven Spielberg films:
1. E.T. The Extra-Terrestrial
2. Schindler's List
3. Raiders Of The Lost Ark
4. Close Encounters Of The Third Kind
5. Jaws
6. Jurassic Park
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37 minutes ago, Stefancos said:
Ive seen it, it's awful. Really awful American rubbish.
The music is good though.
Because of the music and the animation I see it winning...
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6 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:
There is an animated short category.
And critics watch and review all sorts of things.
I could see this winning actually...
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Isn’t it a bit odd that a soundtrack hasn’t been announced or isn’t avalaible for preorder just a little over a month before the film’s release...?
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1 hour ago, Jay said:
Yep
Uhm, 22 hours ago you wrote:
QuoteI kinda feel like there's enough time now for JW to write and record a RP1 score, since that film doesn't open until March. What else is JW doing between now and then? It seems like AS has been busy with Avengers 4 recording lately. How far along is he with RP1?
Oh well.
Close Encounters of the Third Kind - 2017 2-CD La-la Land edition!
in JOHN WILLIAMS
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Thanks..!