publicist
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Posts posted by publicist
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The problem why these ratings never work is the different frame of reference, so to speak.
Numerous people don't know enough of the oeuvre of discussed artist, but go on with fervour and rate it anyway. It's not so inane like similar threads regarding Morricone, but it's bad enough when the rating grounds are scores from 1995-2004.
(plus 'STar Trek - TMP')
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See, out of those scores listed, only Patton is exceptional to me. Maybe his scores just work better in film, because I'm bored by Alien and to a lesser degree, the Omen. I still place him pretty high up on the list of composers, just because he has had some fantastic scores, and he's one of the most respectable composers of the last 100 years, I just don't understand why people consider him THE best is all
The always reliable 'why is Goldsmith great'-thread....why don't you just hang it onto on of the two dozen threads with the same topic?
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Yes it was manipulative, cliched and comic book-ish but I felt its execution was done well enough to warrant a thumbs up.
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The evils of capitalistic economy - all those billions of $$$ and what's the result? Films like *The Patriot', which must have sucked badly even at the first pitch meeting.
This is certainly the last paycheck Williams i've heard. The moment when the final battlefest arrives and Williams puts on the happy olympic mode with all the pompous fake-heroism, you'd think some DeLorean has transported you back to the days of 'The Dirty Dozen', where it still was OK to have bright marches playing while hordes of people are slaughtered.
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I've heard several Wisemans, including a compilation.
There may be british pastoral music in her oeuvre, but Barry, it certainly ain't.
'Arséne Lupin' is a good-natured Williams/Elfman-bombast-combo, which is miles better than these usual Hollywood knock-off's. There's a waltzy feel to it, which makes it at times a good companion piece to stuff like 'Harry Potter'.
'Lighthouse', 'Wilde' and 'Hans Christian Andersen' sport a rich symphonic tapestry, which Barry wouldn't(couldn't) touch with a ten-foot-pole.
'Wilde' has one of those european perfumed dramatic themes which recall 'Seven Years in Tibet'...so if that gets your hormones boiling, go for it.
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She is a female version of John Barry.
Which in translation means you have heard NOTHING of her, because that link is certainly the most outlandish one could make.
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'Unbreakable' is certainly the most beautiful.
'Lady in the Water' and 'The Village' come next....great themes and a stunning atmosphere to match.
'Signs' only interests me for about 15 minutes, although it's a very good score. Just not very thematically driven. 'Sixth Sense' is good, but not special.
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My favourite tracks so far are 'Charades' and those following it. Here Newton - Howard's hypnotic mode is in full blossoming.
It lacks the sublime quality of 'The Village', but throws some hollywoodized adventure scoring into a rather nutricious meal. Although the gratitious fanfares of people like the 'Filmtracks' guy speak volumes about the lowered expectations of the common soundtrack connaisseur in general: the heralded second coming this ain't. It's a bit too comfortably rooted in routines already established.
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I'm still interested in the supposed 4-hour-cut of 'Kill Bill'.
But to compare the 80s with the 90s would mean you have to take the zeitgeist into context. This was an era when a film like 'Rambo II' was considered worthy of serious debate.
I guess we can find a denominator in the fact that 80 - 90% of stuff produced was mediocre to bad. The 20% pearls were just of a different kind. As for throwing things like 'Adaption' or 'MR' into the ring, well, then i can count 'Death in Venice' as 80s, too? Or 'Star Wars'?
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Alternate End Title (Born on the Fourth of July)
Is an alternate of 'BotFoJ' available? How does it compare to the official version?
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That seems highly unlikely.
Horner recorded 'New World' in August, WWilliams did not start to work on 'Munich' til late autumn. Even IF Zimmer was approached (which i never heard serious proof of) it was certainly not for that reason.
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'Munich' was a taut 70s thriller, buried in a patronizing preachy-talky PC-style, making it tedious and overlong.
That someone as vulnerable as a 30-year old father would be chosen as head for such an operation, in tandem with the ridiculous Michel-Lonsdale-plotline, is simply asking for a bit much suspension of disbelief. The suspense scenes were great, though.
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Some idiot simply slapped 'Terror in Bed' and 'The Curtains' over the 'Poltergeist III' scene.
What kind of satisfactions are gained by these shenanigans is beyond me...but obviously, there are those who see it necessary.
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Oh yes just assume everyone here bases their decision on mainstream stuff and that we haven't even bothered to sample other works outside of American cinema.
I do not assume, I SEE IT, always when there's a discussion about movies and their cultural inference etc. takes place. It's dripping from almost every sentence. Of course, people may have watched the lone 70s crime thriller with Belmondo or 'Il Postino', by chance, but apart from that the american stuff reigns...mightily (nicely demonstrated on the 'Superman returns' thread).
As for sampling gazillions of Morricone music, i thought people by now would have figured out more easy ways of getting into possession of some tracks or scores...apart from buying them for 18€ a piece.
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The Cassandra Crossing
Twilight's Last Gleaming
Rio conchos
Lonely are the Brave
High Velocity
Coma
These scores are anything than boring middle-of-the-road stuff. There is a difference between 'i can't grasp it' and 'it's uninspired'.
Maybe there's too little Prokoviev and bloated Hollywood showmanship in it...wrong board, then.
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I'll give the Morricone-doubters the benefit of the doubt: they simply have no clue what they're talking about.
It's totally understandable that messageboards populated with rather young folk indoctrinated by the american film market lack a certain knowledge about european cinema and film history in general. It's common. But maybe, JUST MAYBE, they simply should pop in a movie like 'Queimada' or 'Citta Violenta' or 'Giu' la Testa' or the countless other things Morricone did.....and stop re-watching the Death Star explosion or the Desert Chase or whatever blockbuster gets viewed the zilch'd time this week.
It may sound a bit bitter, but i find it truly disheartening that so many people miss out on the european stuff. Morricone is only mentioned in conjunction with
a) The Mission
B) The Untouchables
c) some spaghetti westerns here or there
d) the 'terrible' organ music in 'Mission to Mars'
So, let there be light! Try to experiment a wee bit more and you'll find a lot of premium stuff in this vast output of his.
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FYI, 'Alexander Nevsky' only got a 3-note-danger-motif...which Horner ripped mainly for 'Battle beyond the Stars'...and maybe some 'Star Trek', i never listened carefully.
The Rachmaninoff is the most logical choice, since Horner is a VERY russian-influenced composer....these 4 notes transformed 'Troy' into a big laugh for me....and for that, i have to be thankful to Mr. Horner.
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For what it's worth, in the main title Raymond Scotts 'Powerhouse' crops up alongside Nino Rota's 'Amarcord'. The scott was used in numerous Warner cartoons.
More interestingly, the love theme remembers me of Billy Joel's 'Leningrad'....the melodic line (and a long one at that) is very similar.
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It's semantics-time, again.
Why has it always to be 'brilliant', 'magnificent'....'MASTERPIECE' etc.etc.
Why not just accept that a lot of the cited scores have a fair amount of functional underscore, which by no means can be considered brilliant, as much as you'd like it to be.
If not, make a convincing case why 'Escape from the Basket' or 'The Greenhouse Effect' are brilliant...
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'Avant garde' has more than one meaning...
And i certainly would say that a concert work by Rodney-Bennett is as distinctive as one by Williams....which is the only way of evaluating these things. I hardly could compare 'Episode III' with a Boulez piece...
If this comes of as overly critical of Williams, it's really not. I like him, too. But i get alarmed if the old 'Beethoven and *insert random classical composer here*-routine' is used to elevate Williams to some lofty heights, only because some people love to jerk off while listening to 'Hook'...and yes...that's polemic,i know it.
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I love scores like 'Dracula', 'Images', 'Close Encounters', 'Indy II' or 'Empire of the Sun', 'Born on the Fourth of July' (and some others) deeply...
But that doesn't mean that i have to rate Williams as the musical avant-garde of the 21st century. In my book, quite good is a great compliment.
Adequate...well, i think that sums up my opinion of scores like (i.e.) 'Patriot', 'Far and Away', 'Stepmom', 'Spacecamp' and recently 'Munich'. They're far from 'bad', but i certainly wouldn't rate them above...let's say 'Cobb' or even 'Mary Reilly' by the always underestimated George Fenton.
But of course, if 'Pirates of the Carribbean' is your benchmark, then Williams has a lot of steam ahead...
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Modern composers with a distinctive style (and around Williams age, mostly) could be Boulez, Messiaen, Kagel, Henze, Ligeti, Stockhausen, Cage, Glass, Rodney-Bennett or even Kilar...i find his music distinctive, but it bores me.
Film composers? Tom Newman, Goldenthal?
If you really discount these guys, you're simply a wimpering Williams fanboy and nothing more. Newman certainly has done more to establish new trends in film music, lately...as has Hans Zimmer, but let's not go there...can full of worms...
And...if you really think 'Treesong' or the likes proof Williams superiority....well, i can't help you then. His film music ranges from quite good to adequate, but i`m somehow afraid you're ready to prove that every note Williams produces is touched by the fairies.
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In an ultra-secret private concert for Beverly Hills residents only, Goldsmith once fulfilled his lifelong dream of conducting a concert of a 'Star Wars' suite, which ran for roughly 9 hours and had everything from a 12-minute piece called `Boba Fett's' fugue to a 20-minute-piece called 'Jar-Jar's Adagio', arranged by Goldsmith himself out of admiration for Williams' Prokoviev-imitations.
It was attended by John Williams, James Horner and The President of the United States.
There you have it.
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Yes.
The prime candidate would be 'Mr. Baseball does HongKong'.
Actually, i wouldn't say Williams has NO style, that was just a random example of the beloved 'provocative thesis' people like to throw around to provoke any reaction.
But to argue with 'show me any composer with a more distinctive style than Williams' is reeeaaally stretching it.
To idolize someone doesn't mean that you have to act like a retard. Williams uses a musical palette which comfortably ranges in the established styles of 19th and 20th century music without overly challenging them. And that's great, because he's good at it.
A solid to great craftsman with a keen ear for melody...that Williams leaves a stamp on the musical heritage like Herrmann is just wishful thinking (if you discount the ratio of Silva-Samplers or the likes featuring them). The point is, i think, that the most famous Herrmanns provokes psychological reactions from the listener, whereas most of Johnny's big hits are of an overtly showman-like nature (and please don't cite those lonely counter-examples like 'Images')
And what anything of this has to do with being nice or nasty still remains a mystery...
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Williams' politeness and decency prove him to be so much more of a man than those of his colleagues who fail to control themselves. I mean, Herrmann was a wonderful composer, but his attitude held him back, not only professionally, but artistically. Williams is a gentleman, and his art proves it. We are what we write, and write what we are.
That's bold, really.
I mean, let me contradict it with this thesis: Williams is an opportunist, who gets all the big gigs because he never locked horns with anyone. It shows in his music, which is tasteful and well-arranged, but lacks style.
I'm missing something: Why is Goldsmith great?
in General Discussion
Posted
The same could be said to a lot of Williams releases. No film composer is immune to that. And no, not every film requires Straussian tone poems. And even if it is hard to grasp, 'Logan's Run' is no less an accomplishment than 'Star Wars'. Just on a totally different scale...