Saxbabe

Might as well respond since this was dragged up. Good topic. JNH is nuts about Beethoven. He has a bust of him in his studio, and can play Beethoven at will on the piano from hearsay. McNeely adores Herrmann and JW. One of his last blog posts was a gleeful one about JW's Hook. I think a lot of film composers admire Stravinsky. And Prokofiev (who shows up occasionally in scores as well!) Shostakovich maybe. And Howard Hanson has been an influence before. Current composers seem to like the minimalists, because the influence is definitely there. JNH has some of that going on in Signs. Penderecki perhaps too. And we know Goldenthal is into Corigliano right, as that was his teacher...what about Corigliano himself? (Question for scissorhands!) I wonder is the tail "wagging the dog" too these days. Because I think many classical composers seem to be into film composers, from their music, and also even confess to it. I had read before that Johan De Meij much admires JW. And the composer/conductor Esa-Pekka Salonen loves Hermann and Goldsmith. John Adams is into Takemitsu, and I would think others as well.

Yeah, Dvorak and Sibelius would be grand. Love those tone poems. Give them fantasy, something very adventurous, also romantic... Or a Western would work, I always thought the opening theme of Sibelius' Kullervo sounds like a Golden Age Western score. In fact, part of this piece should be used for a movie sometime. That would rock. One of my big all-time favorites. We'd never have any rejected scores from his pen though, we'd be lucky if he didn't burn them himself before they made it to film...

I would order these two in a heartbeat, but there is, literally, no money right now, so I hope they won't sell out too fast! It's fantastic to find out what the new Hermann recording is - when I met McNeely in Houston in May he said that something was "on the way" and I was curious if it could be this score! The amount of care they put into these rerecordings is enormous, so I very much look forward to hearing it. Yeah, it's a shame our dollar is so weak right now. That and also filesharing (!) he said were the main factors that hurt the money situation for the rerecordings. (Oh BTW, check out his awesome blog post about JW's Hook there! http://web1.joelmcneely.com/blog/music/200...erendipity.php)

Dang, you beat me to Stravinsky! Samuel Barber would be really interesting. And of course, Ravel.

Well, I've finally decided to graduate from pencil and paper, and now have Sibelius 5. I am starting to set about a project for that holidays that I have wanted to do (when I did finally get software), which is to work on a larger-scale transcription, namely for wind ensemble. Orchestra to wind ensemble, that is. Some of the wind ensemble JW transcriptions are really nice. I don't remember who did them, but I have once played a Star Wars Suite and Suite from Jurassic Park that were extremely good and first got me interested in that sort of thing. But only now after I had orchestration, did I really decide to jump in. A long time ago, I messed with Finale some (LONG time ago), but never really became fluid in it - and so far I think I like Sibelius better, but still it seems to take me forever to enter a line of music. What I am thinking about doing, first, is making a reduction, maybe like 3 grand staffs, one with woodwinds, one with brass, and one with strings - laying out the voicings in concert pitch - because it's driving me mad transposing and mentally trying to sort out where everybody lays in the chord, all at the same time. I was wondering if anyone else here has worked on large ensemble transcriptions or arrangements before? And how you approached it? There is a program called Photoscore, that is supposed to be able to read the music from a scanned page, not sure how well it works, but something like that would be an immense time-saver, especially in something like an arrangement - right now I wish I could twitch my nose like in Bewitched and the score would magically be input into Sibelius, to have a basis to work from... Thoughts? Tips?

Yes, I'm inspired to give Dinosaur a spin again too, after reading this thread! I dearly love that score, Egg Travels was the cue that first got me into JNH. And Wyatt Earp and Hidalgo I must dig out too...JNH scores have the great quality about them of still being enjoyable after tons of listens (like JW). (BTW, Tim, love your Bernstein quote and avatar!)

I hardly have anything to add! You guys have mentioned the scores that definitely comprise his very best work, I would only add a couple more of interest... One very notable one is Grand Canyon, a urban drama score with classy, gritty use of electronics and electric guitar, and an fantastic ending fanfare. Another is The Postman, which is in the same vein as Wyatt Earp, a broad western type score. And Devil's Advocate is also quite good, spooky, dramatic, atmospheric. Just wanted to say - nice to see other people love Outbreak! A Little Resistance is really an awesome cue, especially the last minute is impressive. Another favorite there is the cue Finding the Ship. The brass playing (the horns!) in that score is phenomenal, real let-'er-rip stuff. What makes JNH great: I think he's very versatile, he writes well-crafted music with interesting details, even in his scores that aren't his best there are things to appreciate about the writing. He can be a master of subtlety. And when he is at his best, he's superb - especially in stuff like the Shyamalan scores where he's given more freedom and time, his fantasy scores...swashbuckling scores...etc. It's mindboggling to me why his works aren't performed more by orchestras, or why concert suites of some of these fantastic scores haven't been created!

Ooh, well, we like Opera more when they are not singing! The Wagner orchestral overtures and preludes are among some of my absolute favorite music ever. But the Ring cycle as a whole is amazing, when I was younger I would have considered it a life dream to make it to Bayreuth someday to see them in their originally conceived environment. Which really would be cool. And I also love the John Adams operas, as a whole, extremely thought provoking and intelligent. I would like to see more live opera, but it is very expensive!

I was curious what the Lahti hall looked like, but I found this picture, very pretty: Yes, I love this CD! With the Tapiola Sinfonietta...those are beautiful works and gorgeously played. I didn't realize there were two brothers, both so equally talented! But then again, musical talent seems to abound in Finland. It is extraordinary the amount of great performers, conductors, and composers that have come out of the country, especially in the last 20-30 years. They are a big presence in the music scene, even two of the large American orchestras are right now headed by Finns. I was curious, what has contributed so much to the exploding musical culture in Finland, is it a large part due to the Sibelius Academy? I noticed that most of the famous Finnish musicians have all been schooled there. Sorry, OT, but I find Finland rather interesting musically. I would like to visit, someday...it is certainly a beautiful and fascinating country.

I wonder if Jaakko Kuusisto is perhaps the brother of the amazing violin player Pekka Kuusisto who plays and conducts on my Ondine CD of Sibelius chamber music...hmm... Sounds like it was a fantastic concert! Any pictures?

Atlantis is really good. Treasure Planet is awesome. Treasure Planet has brilliant and very detailed orchestral writing, Atlantis is gorgeous and grand. I still like Dinosaur better than both of those though. I honestly haven't listened to much recent JNH stuff, besides Lady in the Water (a lot), and Freedomland once (nice, but nothing extremely distinctive). I hope Waterhorse will be very good, but well, the jury's out, we'll see. I think I would rather him not be so popular (4 years ago I was saying the opposite!) and do less projects in a more intensive way - when a great opportunity comes along like this, I worry that he doesn't have the time to devote to really crafting something, as opposed to just getting it written. Can't anyone else (ie. younger composers) do urban dramas? I know JNH does them well, but some sophisticated sound design, by whoever, would do for those... I hope that his best scores aren't behind him. I would hate to see someone so obviously talented rest on their laurels once they reached the top. I'm a little worried too about him being unduly influenced by Zimmer too due to their close friendship. In any case, I look forward to hearing the score (and of course, seeing the movie!)

Wow, that is so great! I never thought about them pulling from the film music world for an encore! That group is fantastic, that program was created to give underprivileged kids in Venezuela something to aspire to, and they've become somewhat the darlings of the classical world right now. It really is an inspiring achievement. Here they are in some West Side Story: Dudamel is really something, he's been named the new L.A. Philharmonic conductor, at only 26 years old - if he is reaching out to the film music world, and specifically JW already, that's a good sign.

Sounds like it will be great, the Lahti Symphony is very, very good... But too bad you guys are all going to different concerts...it would have been neat to see a pic of the Finnish JWFans!

Well, I guess I am the exception here, being a GIRL.... Yeah, you have to have a lot more in the relationship, I mean, two people have to be really compatible, but still the shared musical interests would be so important, for me, because it's a big part of who I am. Here from the other side of the coin, I find it's very hard to find guys with the same interests (in real life, that is). If they do, to any extent, and are sweet, and any modicum of cute, they are very definitely taken. And if they're not taken, they're verrry far away. So I've just given up on the whole thing for now. So, it's not everything..but if you have it in common, for a music lover...that would radically add to the happiness, to be able to share in so much great music, that's an incredible thing to have.

Hey all...I uploaded the video from the 2003 opening of Disney Concert Hall to YouTube, one of the clips I had never seen before, with JW accompanying Josh Groban on the piano: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3h2Y4Lp1w4 His piano playing is incredibly beautiful there...that clip gives me warm fuzzies.. From the film night: Soundings: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saQxoUe8dCI Intro for Soundings, Spielberg and Williams: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swVGEzgVjXA JW conducts Raksin's Laura w/ Brian Stokes Mitchell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwYI1VyJpgM And the lovely Audra McDonald with a hilarious song from the film West Point Story: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LZ_4ya7cPA Herrmann's Scene d'Amour and Death Hunt, LA Phil and Salonen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWKu78ztvkY Other cool stuff: The Rite of Spring (Danse Sacrale, the other parts are there too) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOMt-MiI018 Yo-Yo Ma working up a sweat with Lutoslawski's Cello Concerto: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iudtvUpu3f4 John Adams discussing his Dharma at Big Sur with excerpt of finale: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Lp_GJGM0D0

Plus it was performed by the Berlin Philharmonic, who simply beat the BBC players by a mile (and Fenton even spiced up the brass lines on some cues for the occasion). I've never been that excited about Planet Earth though. It's got a few nice moments, but overall seems mostly a lengthy experience. Nothing like the two Blues, which I couldn't get out of my player for weeks. Yeah, if they do a reworked score for Earth, with the Berlin Phil, I'll go for it... Deep Blue is a joy to listen to not only for the great music but the gorgeous playing...the title theme is to me one of the best things he's ever written. I agree with you Marian, Planet Earth has some interesting moments that recall the "Blues" but never quite reach their majesty. The series was awesome though, and I'm glad he's gotten a few awards for the music because he's really a talent IMO. Are we getting Earth released here in the US in theaters? I'd like to see that on the big screen.

I don't have the full Miraculous Mandarin either, just the suite, the recent LA Phil recording. That made me very much want to hear the complete ballet, it's really neat (and wild) music. I've been listening to Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra lately which is just great. The Finale is my favorite part. Mahler 2nd: Man, what an INCREDIBLE piece of work. The Finale is transcendent, and the other mvmts are fantastic too, the opening of the symphony, the devilish Scherzo, great stuff. I personally love his 5th and 6th symphonies, ooh and the 3rd, gorgeous and apocalyptic stuff with super brass writing, the Finale of the 6th (with the 3 hammer blows, as intended before Mahler got superstitious) is incredible. I always think of the parallels between he and Strauss when I hear that because of that frequent use of a major chord turning quickly to minor as in the opening of Also Sprach Zarathustra. I have heard Zander's recording of the 6th, it's very good, and the discussion disc is excellent, those are on Telarc and highly recommended to learn more about the symphonies. Lots of good information and clearly presented. Sibelius 2nd: So beautiful and ultra romantic, it actually reminds me in the sweeping Finale of Tchaikovsky's Romeo and Juliet Overture. Sibelius was a truly amazing composer, one of my very favorites right now. His 5th is also a must hear, this is the radiant Finale: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLOig_N14Dg And Kullervo and the Lemminkainen Legends are awesome too, colorful and lusty early works both based on the Kalevela. I enjoy hearing the large male choir singing in Finnish, and you can't beat a story where the hero accidentally makes love to his sister...

Williams' concert music is "classical" music. That's what concert music by film composers is. As for the type of classical music, it's contemporary classical, which is defined as written post-1975. Or some is even 21st-century classical, a new definition for music written post 2000. Music from the Classical era would be say, Haydn or Mozart, music written generally in the late 1700s. Film music is just...film music. Because it can be anything, jazz, pop, rock scores....a good deal of it (yay) happens to still be orchestral, which is influenced by western classical orchestral music. It is kind of a hard definition though, I mean where do you put Prokofiev's Alexander Nevsky? Because he's a very famous classical concert composer, sometimes it is lumped in with his classical work. It's still film music though (and great film music) to me, which just describes the medium it was written for.

Well, there was a time back there when Joel McNeely was seen as the natural heir to JW, around the time of Young Indy and SOTE, and he wrote at that time some really nice action scores, and children's Disney adventure movie stuff that showed solid and interesting good old-fashioned orchestral writing...he still has done some real gems for independent films and animated Disney, but I wonder if he's been so typecast in the intervening decade that it isn't too late for him. I'd still love to see him keep doing (quality, I hope) live-action movies, he always writes such consistently good, enjoyable scores. Bruce Broughton is another, that has written some amazing scores, with superb orchestral writing, but I feel like is also in the "might've been" camp now. Through no fault of his own! He's done some great scores for TV shows and movies (HBO's Warm Springs is gorgeous), and is still an awesome composer. I think, and have always thought he and McNeely are so underused. Is this dealing with who Spielberg is going to work with in the future? It'll be JW until he dies like 25 years from now...so enough discussion about that... But the next to achieve that kind of stature? Yeah, definitely JNH IMO. But Silvestri is incredible too. A lot of it depends on their future luck with projects and director collaborations. I think Alexandre Desplat has written some very well-crafted and provocative scores so far too, I always look with interest at his new projects. Giacchino will be interesting to watch as well.

Very funny, Steef!

Lot of replies already...some of it with classical is just getting a chance to hear works by certain composers, you end up liking things you wouldn't have expected. The radio, YouTube, those are good places to explore. I haven't gone wrong with anything recommended to me by my fellow board friends, obviously JWFans seem to have good taste! The thing is, "classical" isn't necessarily either stuffy "long-haired" or odd avant-garde stuff anymore, the newer contemporary music tends to be very fun and filmic, and influenced by jazz and film music and a million other things these days. Basically just get out and dive in, the worst that can happen you don't like something, but you can really hit upon some rewarding things. Film music and classical from the last century go hand in hand - depending on what scores you like, it's easy to think of some classical you would probably also enjoy.... I didn't listen to much Mahler, Strauss, and Bruckner, until recently because I thought oh, they are difficult, but I found that far, far from the case, their works are just long. All three, their brass writing was huge and impressive, dramatic, highly recommended for film music lovers. You know the fanfare thing from 2001, that's called Also Sprach Zarathustra and there's a whole piece that goes with that, about 20 more minutes worth, which is just fantastic. Bruckner and Mahler on full blast would rival any action score, and it's gorgeous, massive stuff, which can be very dramatic and emotional. There are just a lot of touchpoints to use as somewhere to start if classical is something you'd like to get more into. For example, The Village is influenced by Vaughan Wiliams's violin writing to my ears, and Signs uses minimalist techniques (use of the one repeated motif) that reminds me of Phillip Glass. Also you have to remember that films are even commonly temped with classical music, so the similarities are sometimes intended - there is a cue in SW (someone like Neil could elaborate) that is very Rite of Spring-ish, for example. Herrmann was influenced a lot by the modernist atonal techniques of his day and synthesized this with romanticism and his own compositional ideas, which makes him quite fascinating. Bartok, Hindemith and others, really cutting edge modern writing. Shostakovich, Stravinsky, and Prokofiev, are big precursors of action music, with lots of rhythmic drive and just great writing, turn to Messiaen's Turangalila Symphonie for some sci-fi type writing, and some late Penderecki, Symphony No. 2 definitely a good one. Brassy, anguished, total drama. Also very enjoyable are of course the recent cases of classical influenced very much by film music, many big colorful brilliantly orchestrated pieces from the early 90s onward. Michael Daugherty and Richard Danielpour come to mind as the first to mention there, I promise, if you like film music, you would like their orchestral pieces. I'm currently in love with Toward the Splendid City, it is just incredible. Also Urban Dances is a lot of fun. For Daugherty, try Metropolis Symphony, based on Superman, the story that is. A few others, John Adams is maybe the best known living American composer right now, and really a master, I know some here are also fans, his music is wonderful. He has been influenced by jazz, pop, etc and is a must-listen. Very accessible, but also a lot going on in his music. Almost anything of his is awesome. Esa-Pekka Salonen has been influenced by Adams, but since conducting the LA Phil for a long time has picked up a healthy dose of sci-fi and action type writing with a lot of rhythmic drive, also a familiar name for the great disc of Herrmann music they did. LA Variations and Wing on Wing both great discs, I prefer marginally the latter. Michael Torke is influenced by jazz, and Beethoven, and also John Adams, his Color Music is very exciting and catchy.

Been meaning to start this for a while...ever since I happened to run into two fellow JWFANs blindly on other music communities due to a common interest in contemporary and classical music in general, obviously a lot of us here also really like this music which has been such an influence to film music, and now is even influenced by film music. So here we can discuss all things classical, composers, eras, works, recordings, recommendations, concert experiences - anything! I know a few of us here are musicians in orchestras themselves or play classical regularly which is also neat to hear about. Band or "wind ensemble" music can fall under the auspices of this thread, something many of us in the States are or have been involved in. Something else that might also be fun is to recommend some works that film music lovers exploring classical would like. (Steef, I promise we can think of some gooood ones.) I know that some of my very favorite stuff currently has been recommended to me by fellow JWFans! I guess I'll start with some favorites by era: Baroque: Vivaldi, Bach, Handel Classical: Haydn (love!), Rossini, Mozart, Clementi Romantic: (an era with a lot of influence on film music) Early: Beethoven, Schubert, Berlioz, Mendelssohn, WAGNER Middle/Later: Bruckner, Mussorgsky, Tchaikovsky (huge favorite), Dvorak, Rimsky-Koraskov Turn of the Century (arguably my favorite period, all of these I adore): Mahler, Sibelius, Strauss (Richard), Elgar, Holst, Vaughan Williams, Ravel, Debussy, and on, and on...Charles Ives, Percy Grainger, Malcolm Arnold 20th Century (another hugely important period for film music): Shostakovich, Stravinsky, Prokofiev... Bartok, Barber, Schoenberg, Hindemith...this could get long...Gershwin, Copland, Bernstein of course...lots of different styles Contemporary/Modern Classical (almost needs a separate thread): Older: Olivier Messiaen, Gyorgy Ligeti, Witold Lutoslawski, Einojuhani Rautavaara - cool "out there" stuff - Luciano Berio, Pierre Boulez, Elliot Carter, Karlheinz Stockhausen Newer: Have to go with easy on the ears here, these are highly recommended for any film music lover and some have written film scores - Phillip Glass, John Corigliano, Michael Nyman, Steve Reich...the next work as sort of "group", colorful is the best description here - John Adams, Richard Danielpour, Christopher Rouse, Esa-Pekka Salonen, Magnus Lindberg, Kaija Saariaho, Peteris Vasks, Michael Torke, Michael Daugherty, Christopher Theofanidis, Jennifer Higdon And lastly: Wind Ensemble: Johan De Meij, Eric Whitacre, Philip Sparke, Ron Nelson, Frank Ticheli, John Mackey, David Gillingham...the Karel Husa stuff is amazing Whew, good for a start, will mention some favorite works later! Anyone else also count these among some of their favorites?

It's an awesome piece. And I heard from a friend that the conductor is really sharp, one to watch out for, I would certainly go.

I totally agree with Marcus. I think they are anything but boring! I feel he's most himself in his concert works, as we get a glimpse into what he writes when he's completely free. He has developed a strong and unique contemporary classical voice, mixing atonal experimentation with romantic conventions, and you can definitely hear still his filmic style, so they seem very interlinked rather than schizophrenic to me. It's interesting that a lot of contemporary "classical" music is getting away from the random beep-bonk-bing and swinging back towards tonality and synthesizing the old and new, in fact a lot of it is even now influenced by film music! Which I think is a great turn of events - new classical music doesn't have to be unaccessible to be "artsy" and "valid" anymore, as was the thought 20 years ago. This can only bring more people to new music I think, film music is even becoming a bridge into contemporary classical for some people. So JW's introspective yet at times filmic concert writing fits in very well in this landscape. I certainly look forward very much to each new concert work. His Violin and Bassoon Concertos are real gems, the Horn Concerto is great fun, but I was just revisiting the Tuba Concerto, and I think it's one of his most "filmic" and accessible, if that's what grabs you most. It really is beautiful and one to get a hold of. It's rather Jaws Out to Sea-ish in the last movement and has some gorgeous, elegant writing for the solo tuba in the middle. Besides that, I just could not be without the Yo-Yo Ma disc, the cello pieces, like the Elegy, are just melting. And Soundings is truly fantastic, showing an extremely creative JW, translating the visual into aural, I just love the idea of making Disney Hall "sing"! The video, where he discusses seeing the metal curves of the building and imagining what sound would be created if you could "bow" or "play" the architecture, brilliant. Awesome use of electronics! Really, I think his concert works are just as important or even more, to get to know him as an all-around composer. Can't wait to hear his new Duo Concertante.

Don't think this has been posted: JW's Tuba Concerto will be performed September 27th by the USC Thornton School Chamber Orchestra, on campus at the Bovard Auditorium. The soloist is David McLemore, winner of the school's 2007 Concerto Competition. Nice choice of piece! http://web-app.usc.edu/ecal/custom/32/inde..._category=Music Led by resident conductor Sharon Lavery, the program also features Haydn’s Symphony No. 101 ("Clock"), and Alberto Ginastera’s Variaciones Concertantes. Lots of JW at USC this fall, lucky students... I love the Tuba Concerto, with beautiful, haunting writing and an amazing last movement, quintessentially JW. This piece also reminds me often of Jaws!