Miz

I'm a three-hour train ride from London and would see all of these if I could, and if my lady would let me spend the money!
But I've waited a decade for a Giacchino concert (and that was before his last decade of music!) so I'll go with that one.

Don't underestimate Speed Racer, or let the tone of the film put anyone off the reach and power of the score.

Don't underestimate Speed Racer, or let the tone of the film put anyone off the reach and power of the score.

Don't underestimate Speed Racer, or let the tone of the film put anyone off the reach and power of the score.

It was even more ropey in Shadows of the Empire. Arf.
 
As for this score: many thanks to the Star Wars Oxygen team for show 38. The sound editing in the beginning was promising but the speaking and banter pretty cack-handed. However, there is more surprising nuance in this score: Guardians of the Whills theme appears to be modelled on a one-off motif from Tales of a Jedi Knight - Learn About The Force, ANH ("Come with me to Alderaan"), with the shared significance being that Obi-Wan was a Jedi-in-hiding, a carrier of old sacred knowledge. The other decent reference mentioned is the beginning of Stardust being modelled, in instrumentation and tone, on Hologram, ANH, because in both a messenger carries knowledge of the Death Star to the heroes.
 
All in all I'm impressed by Giacchino's use of original trilogy motifs and themes on every scale and with varying prominence, throughout the score. The lack of complexity in some of the writing (particularly action), the lack of ambition in the themes, and, arguably, a certain incoherence to the whole, all seem to be products of the tight schedule. The faith to the Star Wars universe is actually quite incredible, and naysayers need to dig into this score to find that faithfulness and respect. Otherwise, their lack of faith is disturbing. I don't think Desplat would have been able to draw half as well on Williams' canon, or manipulate it with such creativity.
 
I just wish the momentum of AT-ACT Attack's scintillating Rebel fanfare, instead of reverting to chaos, kept firing on all cylinders...
 

It was even more ropey in Shadows of the Empire. Arf.
 
As for this score: many thanks to the Star Wars Oxygen team for show 38. The sound editing in the beginning was promising but the speaking and banter pretty cack-handed. However, there is more surprising nuance in this score: Guardians of the Whills theme appears to be modelled on a one-off motif from Tales of a Jedi Knight - Learn About The Force, ANH ("Come with me to Alderaan"), with the shared significance being that Obi-Wan was a Jedi-in-hiding, a carrier of old sacred knowledge. The other decent reference mentioned is the beginning of Stardust being modelled, in instrumentation and tone, on Hologram, ANH, because in both a messenger carries knowledge of the Death Star to the heroes.
 
All in all I'm impressed by Giacchino's use of original trilogy motifs and themes on every scale and with varying prominence, throughout the score. The lack of complexity in some of the writing (particularly action), the lack of ambition in the themes, and, arguably, a certain incoherence to the whole, all seem to be products of the tight schedule. The faith to the Star Wars universe is actually quite incredible, and naysayers need to dig into this score to find that faithfulness and respect. Otherwise, their lack of faith is disturbing. I don't think Desplat would have been able to draw half as well on Williams' canon, or manipulate it with such creativity.
 
I just wish the momentum of AT-ACT Attack's scintillating Rebel fanfare, instead of reverting to chaos, kept firing on all cylinders...
 

I think that would've been a strength if the themes had their own strength. Correct my music-theory newbness, but he's not into long-line melodies, uses lots of short intervals and repeating phrases in his themes - and they seem to get simpler and simpler. I wish he'd had longer to create, because none of these new themes or their presentation really grab me. And they're merely serviceable in-film. That title card cue could've done with a minor key, or more scattered and challenging orchestration, surely?
 
Personally I enjoyed the inclusion of familiar themes in the score alone and within the film - they were more subtle than they could've been. The tremulous ANH theme for Vader's body-horror shot; the Death Star motif in its hammy glory; Vader's theme (right choice considering the plethora of Imperial imagery); 'Alliance Assembly' shuttle run seemed a true fan's callback; Leia's theme, just; the Rebel Fanfare and the many passages that use its interval and key - the drop from hyperspace fanfare is great (what reason can a Star Wars score fan have for not enjoying that statement?). The only exception I would add is the Force theme: hurried or partial renditions don't do credit to the franchise's most profound piece of leitmotif. Trust Goes Both Ways'  early bungled statement (missing the meter of the phrasing, I believe) still rings sore but I think it just about suits the editing of the take-off scene it accompanies - I wonder if a more satisfying straight-through rendition would've done the same job though.
 
As for all the huffing and puffing about this score: I can understand us geeks' sensitivity to a supreme and beloved set of scores getting blended, shoehorned or mashed into the simpler style of a less-sophisticated composer. The fact that Williams' legacy, and Desplat's potential, are implicated in this score goes a long way to explaining the harsh opinions aired here. There is also a demographic - say, not-quite film-score lovers, but fans invested in 'geek-media' and franchises - who like Giacchino and appreciate his involvement. Their noise about (as one forumite put it well) the 'Golden Boy' will leave a sour taste in the mouth of those who just don't like his music, especially as it is splashed upon the Star Wars universe.
 
I wish he'd had longer to score Rogue One, as I think much of the music would be improved, but honestly, I don't think the overall score would've been a huge amount better. I'm a big fan of Giacchino but musically-literate people here have helped me see his technical shortcomings. I still enjoy plenty of his music.
 
What I'd like less of here is people bluntly stating their opinions (positive, but more pertinently, negative) and thinking they're contributing to a discussion.
 
What I'd like to read more of is actually discussion about the actual music. Argue it's strengths and shortcomings, in detail, so that I can understand what makes a composer good at what they do. Explain to me how Williams can create magic where Giacchino cannot and I'm going to learn from this board and you people - please critique my musical understanding of the score as I have attempted to analyse it. Verbally shit over what you don't like and you'll be as banal and boring as the Rogue One title card fanfare. Ha.

I think that would've been a strength if the themes had their own strength. Correct my music-theory newbness, but he's not into long-line melodies, uses lots of short intervals and repeating phrases in his themes - and they seem to get simpler and simpler. I wish he'd had longer to create, because none of these new themes or their presentation really grab me. And they're merely serviceable in-film. That title card cue could've done with a minor key, or more scattered and challenging orchestration, surely?
 
Personally I enjoyed the inclusion of familiar themes in the score alone and within the film - they were more subtle than they could've been. The tremulous ANH theme for Vader's body-horror shot; the Death Star motif in its hammy glory; Vader's theme (right choice considering the plethora of Imperial imagery); 'Alliance Assembly' shuttle run seemed a true fan's callback; Leia's theme, just; the Rebel Fanfare and the many passages that use its interval and key - the drop from hyperspace fanfare is great (what reason can a Star Wars score fan have for not enjoying that statement?). The only exception I would add is the Force theme: hurried or partial renditions don't do credit to the franchise's most profound piece of leitmotif. Trust Goes Both Ways'  early bungled statement (missing the meter of the phrasing, I believe) still rings sore but I think it just about suits the editing of the take-off scene it accompanies - I wonder if a more satisfying straight-through rendition would've done the same job though.
 
As for all the huffing and puffing about this score: I can understand us geeks' sensitivity to a supreme and beloved set of scores getting blended, shoehorned or mashed into the simpler style of a less-sophisticated composer. The fact that Williams' legacy, and Desplat's potential, are implicated in this score goes a long way to explaining the harsh opinions aired here. There is also a demographic - say, not-quite film-score lovers, but fans invested in 'geek-media' and franchises - who like Giacchino and appreciate his involvement. Their noise about (as one forumite put it well) the 'Golden Boy' will leave a sour taste in the mouth of those who just don't like his music, especially as it is splashed upon the Star Wars universe.
 
I wish he'd had longer to score Rogue One, as I think much of the music would be improved, but honestly, I don't think the overall score would've been a huge amount better. I'm a big fan of Giacchino but musically-literate people here have helped me see his technical shortcomings. I still enjoy plenty of his music.
 
What I'd like less of here is people bluntly stating their opinions (positive, but more pertinently, negative) and thinking they're contributing to a discussion.
 
What I'd like to read more of is actually discussion about the actual music. Argue it's strengths and shortcomings, in detail, so that I can understand what makes a composer good at what they do. Explain to me how Williams can create magic where Giacchino cannot and I'm going to learn from this board and you people - please critique my musical understanding of the score as I have attempted to analyse it. Verbally shit over what you don't like and you'll be as banal and boring as the Rogue One title card fanfare. Ha.

So they've tried to eliminate all Williams references from this presentation of the score, presumably to make it eligible for an Original Score award.
 
But Cargo Shuttle is based entirely around the Alliance Assembly theme from ROTJ! It's my favourite oblique reference to an old theme in the score...so far. Either whoever edited these doesn't know the reference, or does and assumes the judges don't. Teehee.

Contentious point: Giacchino's game scores are generally musically better than his film and TV scores.

Vader's Theme for Vader.
 
'The Empire' ANH theme for Stormtroopers.
 
The Death Star theme for the Death Star.
 
Throw in some more themes for a new baddie and we're done!

I'm alike in only being attracted to the final 3 tracks, at the moment. But the rest of the score, though not instantly appealing to listen to on its own, sounds like it would complement the film's drama and action well. I'll find out more when I see it.
 
I do object to the rubbishing of a score because it isn't a 'good-enough' stand-alone album; we have to remember that's not the music's job. For most people, any film score is not interesting or suitable to listen to apart from a film. Some composers deliver up some stunning albums. I listen to most scores as invidividual tracks and playlists, but Tomorrowland, Up and John Carter are all albums I listen to fully. Do we often feel that because a composer happens to have delivered a good 'album listen' before, that a new score should be assessed on its ability to live up to those experiences? I think not. I count myself lucky when a score sounds great as an album - I do not count it as an inferior score to those others, if it does its job just as well in the film. It's a bit like Clemmensen measuring film scores against his narrow standard of "thematic-developed , leitmotif-heavy, narrative-based, largely-symphonic" scores that Star Wars epitomises.

Vader's Theme for Vader.
 
'The Empire' ANH theme for Stormtroopers.
 
The Death Star theme for the Death Star.
 
Throw in some more themes for a new baddie and we're done!

Vader's Theme for Vader.
 
'The Empire' ANH theme for Stormtroopers.
 
The Death Star theme for the Death Star.
 
Throw in some more themes for a new baddie and we're done!

Heh.
 
Listened to Secret Weapons Over Normandy this morning, and I got inklings that the shrill brass and tumbling melodies could really suit a good old-fashioned X-Wing battle; and that Medal Of Honor's ground-battle tempo could have a good run-in. I'd like the Rebel theme to take centre stage and even be developed forward (not truncated like so many reboot/soft-reboot/sequel scores tend to). Not that I want a recycled sound, I'm sure (given time) he could make this soar while keeping depth...but it's not a given.

There's a rich sideline in Lando, Chewie, Fett, the Falcon and the 'scum of the universe'. It would be weird for them to cast him as Indy too, though.

No, it's the same as the lead-in to the 'main' (choral) theme as in previous credits.

I've found Tomorrowland is a grower; it has much more momentum and character to latch onto than Jurassic World.

Lost had that deliberate pacing and sense of space in spades - some said too much and found it a drag, but it is the anti-thesis of that 'nervous hyperactivity' we see in his action films. Abrams directed the pilots and executive produced the rest; I think he is confident about a more reflective style when he wants to be. Some of our favourite trailer shots imply TFA could exhibit this.
As for Lucas, his concept of Star Wars is very different to most fans' (and non-fans') idea of Star Wars. He envisaged a Tolkien-esque universe of complexity, mythos and obscure language and, as many now know, it was his team that rounded it out to create the successful franchise. It's no wonder him and fans don't see eye to eye. I've always said, judging by his unbridled vision put forth in the prequels, his attitude to Star Wars is the same as an 8-year-old boy's. In a toy shop.
Avatar was made a for a wider audience than that! The film's weaknesses have squat to do with James Cameron's opinions on sustainability. He's not trying to shame Earth's population, but calling (in whatever way) for a change in the over-consumptive and destructive habits of our global civilization (which accounts for only some of Earth's humans - mostly, it has to be said, North Americans, but definitely Europeans and Australians too). Veganism, in parts of the world where factory farming is practiced, goes a long way towards doing that; whether you find vegans pretentious, or your perception of their diets uninspiring, has little to do with those facts.
Anyway, the saddest irony about Avatar's 'philosophy' is that the audience leaves the film glowing with a sense of satisfaction because, in the film, we have sided with the natives and the natives have won. Then we carry on with our lives in which we benefit very much from the destructive and immoral plunderers, raping some far-off land for our benefit. Plus, the massive amount of computer-dependent production has created further demand for the precious metals within all those computers and tech, ripped out of places we don't hear about.
Cameron would have been braver to end the film with the annihilation of the natives. A braver move still would be to end the trilogy in that way, but the suits would never have it, and even if he could fund that depressing and very accurate finale himself, I don't believe he would have the guts.

He's solid and his action writing is powerful, with a tight use of electronics. He captured every Bond he worked on better than Newman has so far.

This score was a grower for me. I thought the main themes quite simple and childish at first, but they've since deepened in scope and they are threaded well through the score. As I'm a fan of scoring my own life (using earphones), and not just judging a score by sitting in my house listening to it, I've found some perfect scenarios for enjoying the big, bright pieces of this score: sitting in a field with the sun setting behind glowing cloud, watching jetplanes approaching and soaring overhead, and birds weaving among the clouds. Also, cycling downhill through beautiful, or just open, environments!
Also, I think this one of Giacchino's most Hermann-esque scores to date. The atonality or edginess in Jurassic World (and even Lost) doesn't quite carry the same character and poise as some of the tracks here: Texting While Driving, Sphere and Loathing, and others. Enjoying this score much more, trying not to wear it out too quickly!

This score was a grower for me. I thought the main themes quite simple and childish at first, but they've since deepened in scope and they are threaded well through the score. As I'm a fan of scoring my own life (using earphones), and not just judging a score by sitting in my house listening to it, I've found some perfect scenarios for enjoying the big, bright pieces of this score: sitting in a field with the sun setting behind glowing cloud, watching jetplanes approaching and soaring overhead, and birds weaving among the clouds. Also, cycling downhill through beautiful, or just open, environments!
Also, I think this one of Giacchino's most Hermann-esque scores to date. The atonality or edginess in Jurassic World (and even Lost) doesn't quite carry the same character and poise as some of the tracks here: Texting While Driving, Sphere and Loathing, and others. Enjoying this score much more, trying not to wear it out too quickly!