IvanP

I think we will have a new Luke centred theme. The "Luke, rebel hero" theme has sort of been repurposed for all rebel heroes, and I don't think it fits the new Luke. He'll need a new "Luke, jedi master" theme. I'm looking at Jedi Steps. It's probably more about Luke than Rey.
 
It's a powerful moment of music (possibly best in the movie) and yet it only appears at the very end. I expect it'll become a major theme in the next movies, now that Luke is back (is he coming back? or is this his Dagobah and he's not going anywhere?)
 
Are we seeing a merging of elements of Yoda and Vader in this?
 
Here's a sketched transcription of Jedi Steps (it's not perfect, especially inner voices, but it's the rough idea). I stopped before the force theme entrance, because that part is obvious.
http://imgur.com/rvT4ppe
 
Opening is clearly a transformation of Luke's theme, played slower, a few notes left out (every second note, in fact)
If you need to see:
http://imgur.com/KENwdIU
 
We get some gentle marching G minor chords in the vibrophone, with little runs in the background. Very pensive, but indicative of marching or walking. (She is climbing the steps - true)
Somewhat evocative of the imperial march. (just imagine the 16th triplets after 3 and on 4)
 
Our jedi steps melody is simple and evocative. Descending fifth. upwards reaching two eight notes, arrive on a new chord and repeat the pattern.
There are similarities to imperal march:
The last two eight notes of each bar - not identical, but same contour (like the part of Rey's theme mentioned by IvanP)
The harmonies - g minor to Eb major, i to VI (inverted). If it were i to vi (minor!) that would be an absolute dead giveaway, so it's just a hint or possibility. At this point.
http://imgur.com/f7muHwH
 
It repeats in the flutes, and as the phrase ends, the brass enters with a new idea. and this one is 100% vader. It has the dotted rhythm, it has the flat vi minor chord on beat 4. It has the low brass. There is no way that this is not vader. 100% vader.
http://imgur.com/NSHLIzS
 
The horn has a transition bar (maybe a fragmented alteration of Luke's original theme, but less signficant) and comes back with the Jedi Steps melody. The horn plays it once then repeats it down the octave and it gets considerably darker and more menacing.
after that, the force theme enters and we know how it goes.
 
So that's the vader, now where did I get Yoda?
The opening of yoda's theme is gentle pulsing quarter note chords, about the same tempo, with harp flourishes in the background. Very similar texture but different harmonies.
The contour of yoda's melody: descending major triad on the first three beats, then a higher note on beat four leading to a chord change on the next bar.
The contour of Jedi Steps melody: descending perfect fifth (quarter note, half note) on the first three beats, then two higher eight notes on beat four leading to a chord change on the next bar.
The contours are not identical, but comparable. The harmonies are different (Yoda I to II major, Jedi Steps i to VI6 major). There could be something, but that's not very compelling in itself. There are slightly stronger similarities when you look at Yoda's death from RotJ, but it still feels like grasping at straws.
http://imgur.com/rmoiJFf
 
Next similarity, and this is the one that grabs me. The two bar vader quote is a similar rhythmic pattern to the second part of Yoda's theme, with the dotted figure on each downbeat, and in both cases it shows a marked change in character from the first part of the theme. In Yoda's case it gets considerably brighter and more jubilant, but in Jedi Steps it goes the opposite direction. Sad and plaintive sinks deep into menacing darkness.
http://imgur.com/jlyqYz4
 
Yoda meets vader. Does this get used elsewhere in the movie? It kinda sounds like it could be a generic evil/mystery motif whenever there's a shot of the imperial fleet or starkiller, but I don't think it is. It could just be the mystery of the situation. A hooded figure, a mythological figure, standing alone on an island being approached by a girl who has only heard the legends.
 
and one more thing, is there any Rey in here? I'm struggling to see it if there, is except for one thing. The tremolo'd harmonies between the first ands econd phrase of the Jedi Steps melody. g minor, and the strings move, and they seem to go to a sus2 type chord, or an incomplete ii with tonic pedal, or whatever you want to call it. G minor -> G A C -> G minor. That's the same as the vibes/piano riff in Rey's theme, the one that sounds a bit like Dies Irae. The upper two voices are moving in thirds and the bottom voice pedals on the tonic, leading to that exact chord pattern. It could be on purpose, or it could just be there because it sounds nice (it really does)
 
Has anyone spotted any other uses of this thematic material in the movie, besides the final scene?
 
The thing is, I feel like it's missing connections to the original Luke theme. Maybe it's not him, maybe it's the island/temple they are standing on. But the whole movie leads up to finding Skywalker, not just finding some temple.
 

Thank you everybody! I has been a while since I last posted, but I see that there is still a huge enthusiasm around

The fact that Rey's Theme is the more elaborate of all the new themes makes me think that in the conversations with JJ Abrams (btw, if he's truly around this board, he is welcome to confirm this hehehe) this was probably one of the "only" things that were sure in the story outline. Or it wouldn't make sense to have such an elaborate theme (even in an infant version, as Anakin's theme in the prequels) than the rest of the new themes, wouldn't it?

Also, Kylo Ren is slightly elusive, but a little more clear than the rest. Considering his fate to be, it is normal that his theme is not as intensely presented as Rey's. We'll see in the next chapters for sure!

So, my opinion (which is just a personal one, not science based or supported by musical analysis) is that the only outline of the story that had for sure, for the next installments, was based around the story of these two characters...almost only. That would explain why the themes are somehow in an infant state...as if they need to "awake" (pun intented) and the thematic difference between TFA and the other chapters.

That's why my theory of hidden message is there. Music supports that, and the fact that these themes are much more carefully crafted than the others.

So, why the others aren't? Because they might not know yet, or at the moment of initial production (they might even be waiting for reports on what made good TFA and what not to change things in the next ones...major studios DO that everytime with Franchises).

The Prequels themes (specially Anakin's and everything surrounding Palpatine) were meticously crafted, because Williams had already all the answers, that's why the prequels score are much more complex than the OT.

There are even some Plagueis / Snoke questions regarding the similarity between Snoke's theme and the ROTS Opera Scene.
It is obvious that the aesthetics are the same as the ROTS Palpatine-Anakin Opera Scene.
But Snoke's theme is no more than a drone in TFA, without any musical implication other than filling the scene and using a sort of "macabre" male choir sounding to a bad guy, something that has been featured in all the Star Wars Trilogies. But it doesn't seem to explain anything more. Apparently, Snoke was initially conceived as a female character.

Andy Serkis even said he didn't have a clue on the character he was playing...besides a bad guy sitting on a podium. That would support my theory that Williams didn't have an answer either and could only play it safe...it was the perfect moment to depict a bad guy (think Voldemort's theme in the 1st Harry Potter movie...the bad guy had a backstory, and so had the music). If Williams didn't do it, it wasn't because he couldn't figure out a theme, but rather because JJ Abrams wouldn't tell him or have yet all the answers...

Again, that's just my personal theory.

Rey's theme, on the contrary, seem to have lot more implications embedded

Hi! A long time since I haven't posted anything, but and, after a few listens to the Soundtrack, my ear was itching...so I thought I could summon the Nerd in me and have some fun while analyzing some stuff that caught my ear...

And...I think John Williams might have been giving more answers than "meets the ear"... at least when it comes to Rey's origin.

What do you guys think?

Attention, possible spoilers for Episode VIII!
 

Thank you everybody! I has been a while since I last posted, but I see that there is still a huge enthusiasm around

The fact that Rey's Theme is the more elaborate of all the new themes makes me think that in the conversations with JJ Abrams (btw, if he's truly around this board, he is welcome to confirm this hehehe) this was probably one of the "only" things that were sure in the story outline. Or it wouldn't make sense to have such an elaborate theme (even in an infant version, as Anakin's theme in the prequels) than the rest of the new themes, wouldn't it?

Also, Kylo Ren is slightly elusive, but a little more clear than the rest. Considering his fate to be, it is normal that his theme is not as intensely presented as Rey's. We'll see in the next chapters for sure!

So, my opinion (which is just a personal one, not science based or supported by musical analysis) is that the only outline of the story that had for sure, for the next installments, was based around the story of these two characters...almost only. That would explain why the themes are somehow in an infant state...as if they need to "awake" (pun intented) and the thematic difference between TFA and the other chapters.

That's why my theory of hidden message is there. Music supports that, and the fact that these themes are much more carefully crafted than the others.

So, why the others aren't? Because they might not know yet, or at the moment of initial production (they might even be waiting for reports on what made good TFA and what not to change things in the next ones...major studios DO that everytime with Franchises).

The Prequels themes (specially Anakin's and everything surrounding Palpatine) were meticously crafted, because Williams had already all the answers, that's why the prequels score are much more complex than the OT.

There are even some Plagueis / Snoke questions regarding the similarity between Snoke's theme and the ROTS Opera Scene.
It is obvious that the aesthetics are the same as the ROTS Palpatine-Anakin Opera Scene.
But Snoke's theme is no more than a drone in TFA, without any musical implication other than filling the scene and using a sort of "macabre" male choir sounding to a bad guy, something that has been featured in all the Star Wars Trilogies. But it doesn't seem to explain anything more. Apparently, Snoke was initially conceived as a female character.

Andy Serkis even said he didn't have a clue on the character he was playing...besides a bad guy sitting on a podium. That would support my theory that Williams didn't have an answer either and could only play it safe...it was the perfect moment to depict a bad guy (think Voldemort's theme in the 1st Harry Potter movie...the bad guy had a backstory, and so had the music). If Williams didn't do it, it wasn't because he couldn't figure out a theme, but rather because JJ Abrams wouldn't tell him or have yet all the answers...

Again, that's just my personal theory.

Rey's theme, on the contrary, seem to have lot more implications embedded