Richard Penna

B Good piece, but comes from a very dodgy album (construction, not musical worth).

Yep, I'd agree there. I'm liking it more and more with every listen, and themes seem to be appearing constantly in new places. I'd say, maybe along with Signs it takes a little getting into, definitely not as accessible as Lady in the Water (and I hope the upbeat passage in the middle of Be With You isn't meant to be a theme, because it sounds a bit MV-ish in its simplicity), but at this point I can safely say IMO this is a solid and worthy entry into this collaboration. With the SFoC reference, I'm, talking about how he mixes the cello with the rest of the orchestra, and the slightly 'damp' sound it has. There are also moments like around 1.40 in Jess Comforts Elliot where the way the strings gather together is orchestrationally very similar. That part of the cue I'd say is almost a much more positive 'brother' to "Humanity Goes On Trial" in that it's also meandering around a little motif but one instrument never quite dominates.

Music does not have to be complex to be good. But that's not relevant here - I have to disagree completely with your first point - why do you say LotR cannot compete?

I think it's a combination of every Shyamalan score he's done to date. It has, as you said, the 'vein' of the Sixth Sense, the solos in the style of The Village, the moodiness and *crash* of Signs, the orchestral outbursts of Lady in the Water, and some quieter piano passages like Unbreakable. Plus I heard a little bit of Snow Falling on Cedars in the orchestration. It's a bit unlike the other ones, but it's a good score IMO.

That first clip didn't blow me away, but I'm hard to please with CGI. I'm seeing the movie in IMAX next Friday so that'll be the ultimate test

Who was the 'they're equal' vote? Have we underestimated you Koray?

Yeah, I've listened to it twice so far. It's very subtle and dark, but towards the end of the soundtrack it starts to pick up a little bit. It's a good score, but not better than Lady In The Water or The Village. I also prefer I Am Legend, which is a knock-out score IMO, and is much better than Michael Clayton. That is precisely my initial reaction after one listen through the album. However, the film clearly needed a different score to Legend or Water Horse. I plan to give it more attention over the next few days though - there is some very complex stuff going on in many cues, and it will probably also take a viewing of the film to completely appreciate. Like QMM, that middle section of the End Title Suite caught me completely off guard. Maybe an unreleased cue he decided to include? Wouldn't be the first time he's included film/alternate versions of cues in the credits.

We already know how biased this place can be. For the record, I chose option 1. I enjoy several Zimmer scores more than my least favourite Williams efforts.

1. Harry Potter 1 2. A.I. 3. KotCS

Well, Mark, I think that those scores can compete with the best Williams, Goldsmith, or anybody else has ever written. I wouldn't describe myself as any more of a Rings fanboy than I am a Star Trek or James Bond or Steven Spielberg fanboy. I happen to love all of those things. Unlike yourself, however, I don't feel the need to resort to insult whenever I'm confronted with an opinion that runs contrary to my own. By the way, you're writing a post on a website called jwfan.com -- if you're not a fanboy, you be sure to let me know what exactly you are. Perfectly put. And I'm in the same boat. Any more members you feel like insulting for enjoying this music?

It is true that a huge amount of unreleased music from Eps 2 and 3 is available if you know where to look, but that's not the point. Point is that these executives who cancelled these apparently planned releases clearly didn't realise the reason why the PM:UE sold so poorly. When you get people like that in charge of releasing music, I think it's no wonder we never get any decent releases these days.

It is indeed baffling why Lucasfilm continually refuses to properly issue these scores. I sometimes wonder whether it's Lucas, trying to protect humanity by not revealing the glorious recording sessions he was entrusted with, thus forcing a comparison with the twisted results on screen. Or maybe he just doesn't care about the proper presentation of music. No shortage of evidence for that. Plus, I read a while back that he apparently doesn't care for DTS which is why even the Indy DVDs (a franchise he should be placed under a large rock for) only have 5.1. It's clearly his way or the highway.

I don't get the love surrounding Blood Diamond or The Fugitive either. but hey, that's what makes this place interesting, we all like different things. The only score in which I don't care for his action music is Hidalgo. Specifically, the cues The Race Begins and The Trap. They both have a hugely cartoonish quality to my ears, and mirror the serious cheese I see in the film. The former is just a little loud and abrasive, although it gets better with the string part. Having said that, I think the quieter music in that score is wonderful. I think the only real problem with JNH, is he hasn't yet done an absolute breakout score. He's working far too fast, doing like 4/5 scores per year, when I wish he'd spend maybe 6 months on a successful, major film and come up with an absolutely 5 star effort. I think he's come close, but either the film isn't major, half the score is cut, or he doesn't have much time.

I'd define water Horse as a fantasy score. Why get so hung up over the definition of an action score anyway? A person who doesn't really care how scores are classified as long as the music is good? Funnily enough, the final scenes in Water Horse I'd say are ones in which the quality of the music generally surpbunses what's actually happening on screen. A prime example of attention to detail in the music severely diluted. Not trying to say the film is bad, but you often hear a piece of music which you imagine scoring some amazing shot, and when you see the film, it's buried under dialogue or SFX. It's kind of like that. Driving to the Loch for example, evokes a huge Scottish expanse with the camera panning over. Instead, we get a conversation in a truck... see what I mean? (edit - now I understand that rubbish with the word 'bun' earlier. What the hell?)

Nice finale, I think it needed the 2 hours. Did a good job of explaining a lot of things and the final revelation was a pretty big shock. I'm a bit concerned that the whole moving the island thing was going a bit too far, even for Lost. I'm keeping the hope that they've got an absolute whopper to end this whole thing and that everything will eventually be explained.

Definitely. The last 4 cues of The Water Horse are a favourite sequence of mine at the moment - the sequence has everything. Jamesyboy has hit the nail on the head regarding his action music. I really do think there's material in some of those scores that could rival Williams' orchestrational complexity, and while his themes might not always be complex, they're damn memorable. I also think Howard is a rather good album producer. With the exception of The Village, they always have a good flow, include all of the key material, and very often include entire/comprehensive finales. King Kong and Water Horse I believe contain every bit of music in the film from the start of the respective main sequences until the credits, whilst providing good coverage of the rest of the score. Williams should take some lessons. The clip of The Happening sounds great, and the score is out tomorrow! The album also looks good and lengthy, and amazingly, we have another 8 minute credits suite - I wonder if Howard is finally seeing the light? Wonder if it'll leak a few hours early

Man, I didn't know there were so many a$$holes in the film music world. And I second the 'Wow with A.I.'. He's always been a little weird, what with talking in the third person, but I never saw that much aggression from him.

Yes, the Doctor seems to be rather freaked out by that, plus the fact that she . It's just like Moffat to come up with the idea of ghosting - a really haunting idea, and heaven knows what the little girl has got to do with all this...

He's not the only one, Badelt's theme from Poseidon rips L&L off as well. No it doesn't. You are misunderstanding RCP. They don't steal from other composers, they steal from each other. How am I misunderstanding? I'm not saying that Badelt went and listened to L&L and thought "hey, I'll nick this" (although it's possible obviously), just that the two themes contain large similarities.

So was I (or somewhere in the US anyway). Wouldn't have gotten up to Manchester, UK anyway.

Most of the time yes.

He's not the only one, Badelt's theme from Poseidon rips L&L off as well.

Mutt's theme. Endlessly hummable.

There are plenty of lines that I felt didn't work in this movie, but that line wasn't one of them - I don't see anything wrong with it.

I'm fairly happy with the film, although it has many flaws in my view. It clearly wasn't sensible to expect anything as great as the original movies, but what we got was a solid 2 hours of entertainment. I'm warming to the score a lot more, although it still doesn't quite reach the expectations I had. It's a superb Johnny score, but lacks something that would make it a true Indy score.