Tim Muirheid

You know - that is a great point. While listening to both TPM and AOTC the Force theme sounds strained, more punctuated, as if it hurts the orchestra to play those notes, hold them the exact count and blow on to the next riff. The exception would be that wonderful Anakin/Qui Gon music pre and post Pod Race where the Force theme sounds like a throwback to the original trilogy. I'll chalk it up to the genius of Williams that as the Prequel storyline shows the disentegration of the Jedi their specific music becomes less flowing, more disjointed and overall exhausted. TIM (who always starts whistling the Force theme from too high a pitch and is embarrased when dropping an octave to complete the tune)

Well, now I'm pissed!

It's not the worst score - it simply SOUNDS the worst of the SE CD sets! Seriously, though, I will want to wait until we see/hear Episode III for possible themes to insert into the 'final' version of ROTJ (apart from the Anakin/Padme theme, of course). There is potential for Palpatine/Sideous activity that might conjure up a new or reworked theme that could resonate when Luke confronts the Emperor. OR could Williams do something completely clever and take that wonderful choral cue when Luke finally jumps on Vader ("Sister! You have a twin sister"...), rework it slightly sinister and use that as new score for Episode III as the bad stuff happens to Anakin, et al? This way it could resolve to the good in ROTJ. THAT'S what we should be doing - banging the drum to have good existing music written into the final prequel, not the other way around ... Other rumored 'what ifs' that MIGHT require new music: - Padme flashback? - dead Jedi 'blue glow' curtain call scene prior to End Credits? Why not add everyone: Qui Gon, Mace, that big headed Jedi, the one on the Jedi council who looks like the Aliens from Close Encounters, those chick Jedi's, and of course newly CGI Yoda? TIM (thinking that the harp solo on 'Darth Vader's Death' redeems any and all perceived flaws with the Jedi score)

Ok - upon another listen I agree subtle was probably the wrong word. I'm not much for that 'atonal' probe droid sequence but I really like the cue from 2:45 where you get the brass overload IM statement. 'Full bodied', Michael Mattesino called it in the SE liner notes. Still, my point was the precedent was set for Lucas to grab the concert arrangement and call it score during editing. TIM (whose 5 year old daughter can't watch TPM without asking "Is that the Queen or her decoy"?)

I would suggest that your statement above validates the actor's performances as to the material they are given. Obi Wan is written not as Alpha Jedi but as second fiddle to nearly everyone. First, in TPM he is Qui Gon's boy, set against the older, more established Liam Neeson (who was pure casting genius by Lucas - very believable, very confident in his role as a rogue-ish elder Jedi). Second, in AOTC he is overshadowed/upstaged by other 'father figures' (Sam Jackson, Yoda, Christohper Lee, even that smart-ass Jedi librarian lady) who give the orders and ask Obi-Wan to do the grunt work. The role is written for McGregor to play the older brother rather than the sage Jedi knight (pronounced with the French style K-NE-G-HIT, by the way ). Hayden's genius is that he looks ready to twist off more often than not which makes his eventual morph into Vader that much more believable. If McGregor played Obi-Wan with the persona of Neeson or Jackson or even Frank Oz it wouldn't work. Ben Kenobi is a foot soldier, taking orders from a higher authority, even past the day he glows blue, always in the shadow of some greater Jedi. TIM (who is concerned about THE PRICK's name and signature line) :biggrinflip:

Actually when you look up the crew credits for TPM and AOTC you find: "Re-Recording Mixers Gary Rydstrom" et al. He is part of that Lucasfilm/THX sound mafia that works with lots of high profile projects. Your point about the sound efx:score mix is well taken, however. I was amazed at how loud AOTC was in both my viewings (a conventional big screen and a DLP showing). As I waited to see the DLP presentation I could clearly hear, through the yacking and chattering of the audience, the rumblings from the underway AOTC showing in the next theater. If this is going to be the case then I would suggest William/Lucas come to an arrangement whereby the number of minutes devoted to score is reduced to something along the lines of the original Star Wars (about 88 minutes). This may sound heretical on this Board but it eliminates the retracking of overused/unused music not intended for this specific sequence. Bottom line - composer and director agree on where there should be music, what is should be and stick with it. If in doubt go with less music rather than director play virtual composer. TIM (reading Tyson v. Lewis updates from ESPN.com as he types)

Yes! - IMHO the music makes that film much more watchable. TIM (who wishes his Church would incorporate that music from the Second Star of Bethlehem scene)

The original Alien film has a really good score. In places it is very subtle and beautiful which makes a nice contrast to the visual and sound efx carnage of the film.

Well - two things to keep in mind: 1. In at least one ESB scene Lucas tracked in the the Concert Arrangement of Imperial March over more subtle Williams score. Sort of a prelude to what he would do in TPM with 'Duel of the Fates'. When Darth Flannel finds a piece of music he likes he usually whips it to (near) death! 2. When is a theme actually two themes? It's important to realize that in ESB Lucas/Williams establish the Imperial March as both Vader's personal theme as well as the overall theme for the Empire (when typically played in a more martial, controlled style). When the theme swaggers, solos or tempo lags it usually means Vader is onscreen doing evil. When played with unified orchestral bombast, or a quick loud snippet of the theme, its usually means a fleet of Star Destroyers or a squad of troopers just came on/off screen. There are occasional exceptions but this is how I keep the two separate in my mind. Since these two variations can be totally independet of each other depending on scipt it means more score time allocated to essentially the same notes. TIM (who still wishes Williams could have found a way to salvage the original Imperial motif in the original)

Actually, I was thinking about suggesting the podrace music that ended up in the Gungan battle scenes from TPM! :roll:

Yes! Play that scene with a slow brass solo of the Imperial March when Ben is talking about Vader and then that mournful horn solo of Anakin's theme (from the End Credits of AOTC) when Ben is speaking about 'his friend', Luke's father. TIM

Hasn't Lucas mentioned in one of the DVD documentaries for TPM that Williams kind of jumped the gun when writing 'Duel of the Fates' in terms of capturing how GL anticipated the music for Ep III would need to sound? If so shouldn't we expect lots of DOTF (after its relative absence in Clones)? TIM - thinking that the unused 'Binary Sunset' alternative take from the Special Edition soundtrack of A New Hope sounds very ATOC-ish ...

If I remember correctly the reference was something to the effect of 'the evil Senator Palpatine' from the original Star Wars novelization (ghost written, I think, by Alan Dean Foster). Back during the 'Journal of the Whills' nonsense and all that.