-
Posts
1,144 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
1
Posts posted by Jacck
-
-
3 minutes ago, lemoncurd said:
Help!!!! Horn motif in Train Heist, 2:18 - 2:25. I've heard it before. Don't know where. Not saying it's an intentional quote. But it's something. I can't put my finger on it. Anyone???? Thanks!!!!!
It's a Bond (David Arnold / John Barry) meets Goldsmith mashup! Probably due to the temp track.
As for the notes played by the horns, it could really be any generic, octatonic, spy-film motif. (I don't think it is a motif).
-
35 minutes ago, rough cut said:
I’m sure it was more than a demo.
Given the sloppy performance, and that Powell basically needed it to do the score, I'd say no. It's a courtesy work done in an afternoon. Next.
- Falstaft, Joni Wiljami and Ricard
-
3
-
4 hours ago, MikeH said:
That trumpet lick is the most insane thing I’ve ever heard Williams write for brass.
You haven't heard his Trumpet concerto.
Separately, The playing in "Adventures of Han" is horrible. Brass, especially. They sound seriously bad compared to the London players.
-
The whole thing's a mish-mash. Including Alan Silvestri (Marauders Arrive and others), David Arnold (Train Heist), Randy Newman, Don Davis (Into The Maw), Zimmer (Corellia Chase), Powell (imitating Chicken Run, HTTYD), and Williams (obvious). A whole load of 'chicken in the pot', there.
Why do some of Powell's harmonic cadences just sound... wrong? Can anyone explain what the fuck 1:30 [cadence at 1:35] in Flying with Chewie is? This is basic shit. I mean, at least Powell does a better job than Gia. But really this is just a poor state of things from a compositional perspective.
-
36 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:
The Crait thing, he's most likely talking about that bit from "Adventures of Han" that sounds similar and gets referenced in that sequence.
I figured that Williams included the adapted Crait-like passage in the "Adventures of Han" demo as a way of providing Powell with an action-oriented motif to allow for aesthetic continuity. The impression Powell gave from the interviews was that he was keen to take any material that Williams could provide.
Separately, on the action music - I don't share the view that the score is particularly 'RCP-esque' (save for the PotC harmonic bullshit in Corellia Chase at around 2:00). I think it just lacks restraint and sophistication. It's basically a "child in a sweet shop" style of writing. Although I'm sure that suits the film fine, by the sounds of it. Makes for a bit of an exhausting album listen, though... And Luke's Theme gets fucking butchered beyond belief in this score and stretched in ways it was never meant to. Cringey bad.
Second half of Flying with Chewie is derivate HTTYD2 Romantic Flight material, but with weaker thematic ideas, and thinned out orchestrations that make it sound like cheesy TV award show music. Don't get the aesthetics??? Weird. Jarring.
The Reminiscence Therapy 'thing' was executed far more successfully, and coherently (less jarringly) by Williams very recently.
I think the kids will love it though! -
6 minutes ago, Lewya said:
Oh dear, the score is HORRIBLE - Williams's pastiche mixed with Zimmerish RCP/MV tropes - slamming percussion and seemingly endless ostinati over most of the score. Also utterly tasteless Karl Jenkins's Adiemusesque choral mush thrown in. Powell dropped the ball. It may be a small improvement over Rogue One though, but that doesn't say much at all i'm afraid. I don't get what people are hearing in this. Williams's sole track is on the other hand is very good, it is obvious that nothing Powell did lives up to it. I am deleting Powell's score right away, saving only Williams's track. Why not hire someone competent, like say Goldenthal?
U ok hun?
-
I just did a thought experiment...
If, say, Giacchino were as self-deprecating as Williams, then that would be totally fair and acceptable, as he most certainly could do a better job the next time...? Therefore, this invalidates my initial theory, as I wouldn't believe Giacchino's self-deprecation to be due to 'vulnerable narcissism', but rather an accurate reflection of reality! This leads me to the irrevocable conclusion that Williams must indeed be a victim of his own success!
I will send the flowers to his agent.
*brain fart*
-
2 minutes ago, Bespin said:
He had is lot in life, he lost many children, but like many people from this time.
We can't point sadness for naming the "biggest problem" of a composer... it's a common point to all of them I think.
Suffering is common to everyone! That's why this thread is so silly
-
33 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:
JW was the best of the undead.
If only that were enough for poor Johnny boy!
32 minutes ago, Bespin said:We talk about Tchaikovsky, I know his story. I just say to point "THE" big problem of a composer, is a strange way of views.
Yes, he could be both gay and narcissistic!
That might have caused him the requisite amount of suffering that could have lead to him becoming as great as Beethoven or Mozart! The therapy robbed him of all those valuable years of suffering, you see. If not for all this calm, he could've created a serious work by now!
-
1 hour ago, filmmusic said:
yet he seems to be so balanced
Is being self-deprecating being balanced? It is more balanced to say "I am good at A & B, but not so good at C", than it is to say "I'm not terribly good at this. I just hope I do a better job next time!". The latter is what Williams says. Here he is revealing his buried feelings of inadequacy through micro-resentful self-deprecation!
He can't integrate not having reached the grandiose heights of other, more serious composers whom he idolises (e.g. the ones he mentioned could do a proper job with Schindler's List to Spielberg).
Oh, how he must lament!
12 minutes ago, Bespin said:That's a strange way of seeing things.
Well, it isn't always terribly easy being gay, 'cause of culture and whatnot! Certainly in the past.
-
I think it's just that years and $$$ worth of contemporary psychotherapy have enabled him to manage his... *glances at DSM*... giant narcissistic ego in ways that were previously impossible for serious composers to achieve!
-
Damn it's already sold out !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ☹️
-
Any love for Sense8?
-
Just now, RadJ said:
It could be intentional of course, I'm not saying it definitely isn't. I completely agree it sounds exactly like that bridge part of Battle of the Heroes.
So unless Williams suffered some temporary loss of agency while writing, it follows that he intended to reference BotH.
-
Just now, RadJ said:
I don't think there are any intentional quotes of Battle of the Heroes in there. But I agree it sounds like it
I believe you are most definitely wrong. Listen again.
-
I would be more interested in having a debate as to whether, for example, 02 Ahch-To Island alludes to a fragment of Battle of the Heroes in the bass at 0:57, as I mentioned. That is far more subjective!
The referencing in Main Titles and Escape is blatant. Most definitely intentional, beyond doubt.
-
4 minutes ago, Loert said:
I mean, it's an allusion if anything. It's not a direct quote.
Yes, of course it is varied. But Battle of the Heroes it is, nonetheless.
-
12 minutes ago, Chewy said:
Am I missing something?!
You can't hear it? It's as clear as day!
-
1 minute ago, Damien F said:
Having seen the movie, I'm certain the theme you describe as Militaristic Resistance’ theme is for Luke on the island.
Thank you! I wasn't sure what to call it having not yet seen the film.
-
- Popular Post
I started an analysis for shits and gigs, and to distract me from perpetual existential crisis. Here's the first half:
Star Wars: The Last Jedi OST Review / Musical Analysis
Introduction
Mixing / Mastering
What initially stands out for me is the mixing and mastering of the album, which hits you straight away upon listening to 01 Main Titles and Escape.
The entire album is heavily limited, mixed meticulously, and makes use of modern mastering techniques such as multi-band compression. There’s no doubt that this is the loudest original Star Wars album release to date. Aesthetically, the techniques used create an epic, large, punchy sound, with bass rolls and strikes that caused my ADAM A8X monitors to boom beautifully, and the trumpet highs of the fanfares and action pieces to almost pierce the ears, were they not being hugged by a warm, analogue-sounding bus compression. The percussion hits are particularly explosive when they occur! Sometimes the limiting gets a bit too close to brick-walling for my personal liking, with sections sounding as if they’re fighting for headroom.
Track-by-track analysis
01 Main Titles and Escape
The track of course starts with the iconic Star Wars / Luke’s Theme fanfare. The performance is very similar to the TFA performance, if not identical. What does sound different is how punchy it is. The main titles segue into a homage to the mysterious piccolo solo that featured in the same way in ESB. This is my favourite of the main title segues, so it was a pleasure to hear it played here with such articulacy.
The track quickly enters an urgent-sounding, militaristic section, with a pounding, rhythmic bass pedal, and fast fanfaric brass/winds, reminiscent of RoTS / BoTH material to my ears. The track is frenzied, with shifting textures constantly as the story develops.
Kylo Ren’s Theme makes its first appearance with a bang at 1:57, orchestrated identically to how we’ve heard it in TFA. I’ve noticed that Williams seems to give the ‘B section’ of Kylo Ren’s Theme a bit more room to breathe in this score – I’m referring here to the ominous rising bass phrase – it’s a bit more fleshed-out and developed throughout the score.
The cue continues in various (likely edited) directions, before a triumphant rendition of the Rebel Fanfare erupts at 2:40. Other theme appearances are a lively and triumphant Poe’s Theme at 3:01, March of The Resistance at 3:17, an allusion The TFA ‘Falcon’/Chase theme at 4:20, orchestrated wonderfully, Battle of the Heroes at 6:15, and others (I think there may be a new Luke on the Island Theme that occurs at around 4:03).
Overall, the orchestration is absolutely stellar. Reminiscent of the end-reel action cues for TPM. Rich, detailed, colourful, and innovative. Shout-out to the Superman-esque bass ostinato! Very exciting track. The feel is dominant, urgent, frenzied and triumphant, told in Williams’ usual story-telling drama style.
02 Ahch-To Island
This track begins with The Jedi Steps theme introduced in TFA. The cue alludes to a fragment of Battle of the Heroes in the bass at 0:57. This cue is incidental, with various swells and developments. The orchestration sometimes uses colours Williams’ seemed to have previously reserved only for Potter or more whimsical/magical films. The cue builds up to a full, wonderful rendition of Rey’s Theme at 2:42. Luke on the Island Theme re-occurs in what I believe to be a clearer rendition at 3:35. Parts of the cue are slightly coloured akin to the mid-reels of RoTS (e.g. Anakin’s Betrayal), in my opinion.
03 Revisiting Snoke
Ominous underscore. Williams has got them monks again doing their thang. Expect tremolo swells, and relatively subtle renditions of Kylo Ren’s Theme (both parts) as well as The Imperial March. Again, some innovative orchestration here. Epic & lively ending involving Kylo Ren’s Theme.
04 The Supremacy
Starts with sleuthing underscore that develops gradually. March of the Resistance appears 0:48, which gets developed with increasing urgency. The cue becomes more frenzied, as Williams’ famous action 2-4-3-5-1 (minor) ostinato gets used excitingly. Great string-work develops, which is really a development on the Kylo Ren chase music established in TFA, and reminiscent of other Williams action cues (e.g. The Moon Rising in A.I.). The craftsmanship in the string writing is striking (a bugger to play, though).
The cue takes a turn at 2:03, where we hear Princess Leia’s Theme played over ominous, dissonant harmonies. Shortly after, we hear another, more uncertain and intimate solo harp rendition of Princess Leia’s Theme before the orchestra continues to boldly develop the narrative, interspersed with references to the Force Theme.
The cue ends with a fragment of Rey’s Theme.
05 Fun with Finn and Rose
The track begins with the first appearance of a gentle rendition of a fragment of Rose’s Theme. It’s a simple melody, but quite memorable, with a Celtic, feminine aesthetic that I felt Rey’s Theme also had.
At 0:52 we get a light-hearted rendition of the B section of The March of the Resistance, which develops a bit and involves the A part too. Princess Leia’s Theme re-appears with clarity at 1:35.
Overall, mostly incidental underscore here. Shout out to the innovative, fresh ending – where did that come from, Johnny?
06 Old Friends
The cue begins with a subdued rendition of The Force Theme, which gets a full play-out before the tone develops into something more light-hearted and impressionistic, with Luke’s Theme peppered in. Princess Leia’s Theme again appears delightfully and magically at 1:12.
The second half of the cue is more sparse, with a fragment of Rey’s Theme, ominous sounding gestures leading to Kylo Ren’s Theme, and more whimsical Williams story telling. At 3:00 the new Luke on the Island Theme returns.
Again, there is some wonderful eerie orchestration and colours here. I think it’s great that Williams is still innovating.
07 The Rebellion is Reborn
The cue begins with a lovely and full rendition of Rose’s Theme – triumphant and broad, before developing into a fragment of Rey’s Theme. The Luke on the Island Theme returns, interspersed with Rose’s Theme.
The track has an exciting and optimistic feel. It ends with a fantastic, bold, optimistic outro using Rose’s Theme. I imagine pushes the narrative forward very well.
08 Lesson One
Starts light with fluttering strings and winds, before a gentle performance of Rey’s Theme. The cue develops in interesting directions, making use of The Force Theme.
The cue becomes very dramatic at around 1:28 with an ominous ostinato-like figure being played by the strings. The cue swells to a gigantic, cliffhanging end.
09 Canto Bight
Begins with a lovely fanfare with some interesting harmonic stuff going on.
Prepare yourself for the source music which references Aquarela do Brasil, but don’t let the steel drums put you off. This track actually turns into something very creative, funny and funky – reminiscent of Jazzy stuff from Tintin, CMIYC, and The Knight Bus.
I love the boogie-woogie bass synth - it's coloured so amusingly. Pretty hilarious.
10 Who Are You?
The track begins mysteriously, with a mention to Rey's Theme. The tone becomes more ominous. More underscoring involving sparse, eerie gestures. Great dissonant harmonies and colours are crafted by Williams. At 2:10 the energy suddenly increases, starting with a short rendition of the Rebel Fanfare and Luke's Theme.
11 The Fathiers
This is a fun action piece. I immediately pick up on a 'swashbuckling' feel here at the beginning, reminiscent to some of the Tin-Tin material. The cue is full of exciting gestures, horn rips, swirling violins, off-beat xylophone hits, healthy doses of Boom-Tzzz and rapid-fire trumpets. At 1:02 a fragment of Rose's Theme briefly appears. At 1:28 Rose's Theme appears again, but this time it really lifts magically and gets a chance to soar.
The track has a great energy - exciting, optimistic, almost whimsical in parts in a Potter-esque style. Williams effortlessly develops the narrative with his usual key changes and rhythmic variations. There's a lot going on here.
12 The Cave
Low harp-pedal and ominous gestures begin this dissonant cue, immediately creating an uneasy feel. The dissonances and timbres are slightly reminiscent of the Dagobah material from ESB, in my opinion. The cue continues for a while oscilating between moments of rising, orchestrationally-innovative gestures and eerie silences.
At 1:35 a flute solo emerges, non-vibrato, quite haunting - still and questioning. The cue proceeds with a kind of romantic string elegy with fragments of Rey's Theme, before arriving at a subdued ending.
13 The Sacred Jedi Texts
Begins with a plain rendition of The Force Theme, before transporting to a mysterious, questioning, swirling statement. Yoda's Theme appears briefly at 0:31, before a loud transitional fanfare. The Force Theme makes a loud, dramatic and desperate appearance 1:00, which I found to be very powerful.
We hear a lovely string elegy at 1:43. Another stock appearance of The Force Theme a bit later.
The cue ends with the concert arrangement of Yoda's Theme at 2:39.
... more to come
-
3 hours ago, publicist said:
Wrong analogy. Calling it #shopworn', #derivative, #unoriginal etc. is just stating a fact, even if the choice of words may color it opinionated (tough shit). It may be brilliantly composed, enjoyable and so on, but the basic fact remains, as well as the fact that the more pedantic fans always have a pavlovian/allergic reaction to the mere mention that this is a road more than well-travelled by Williams.
Yes, but that misses that you come across as entitled when you complain that one man's work sounds a bit like some of his others, as if you expect him to magically shape-shift into an entirely different being (whose music you would likely enjoy even less.)
-
On 5/31/2016 at 10:43 AM, bollemanneke said:
to each his own, but I prefer the female version of The Eegles are coming to René Fleming's take. It just sounds unnatural to me.
That's fine, but:
On 5/29/2016 at 4:38 PM, bollemanneke said:these, what do you call them, counter tenors, men who think they're women
Counter tenors != men who think they're women. That's a judgement you've made based on some negative beliefs.
-
Obvious troll is obvious.
-
On 5/29/2016 at 4:38 PM, bollemanneke said:
Because women sound more beautiful! Because someone in my family likes listening to these, what do you call them, counter tenors, men who think they're women? That sort of put me off.
How presumptuous of you to claim that you know what these men think.
ACROSS THE STARS - Williams / Mutter collaboration album
in JOHN WILLIAMS
Posted
I just came to express my absolute adoration for this album! Such wonderful new arrangements and performance. Sublime! ❤
The use of articulations in Hedwig's Theme are brilliant; the voicings in Luke and Leia. The cadenzas. 😍