Jeff

No you wouldn't. If you knew Sanskrit and could speak it, you would feel empowered to sing along with DotF on your CD player, and your friends would be impressed. But you didn't know it was Sanskrit. You just thought it was some made up chanting for the sake of the song. In that case, you'd be stumbling around, sound terrible, and feel very awkward. When I'm by myself in my car, I try to sing "Hymn to Red October." But I was never very good at Russian, so I'm terrible at it. Around people, though, I wouldn't dare. Maybe you're right - I actually do know Russian and love to sing along with Hymn to Red October. Now that I've been enlightened, maybe I will have a new appreciation for Duel of the Fates (although I was obviously being truthful about what I thought was a "made up chanting"). Now allow me to back out of this lion's den and pretend I never started this discussion.

Well there you go - I didn't know it was Sanskrit. But I bet most people don't know that.

Don't get me wrong, I like it - but keep in mind that relative to the rest of the movie-going public, we're nerds. I'm not sure what language the lyrics are supposed to be, but it's reminiscent of the Star Trek and LOTR languages that some people actually learn. To normal people, that is pretty cheesy (not in the same way "Somewhere in My Memory" is - maybe cheesy is the wrong word?). I prefer the wordless vocals of "Battle of the Heroes." All I know is, I would feel pretty awkward singing the words to Duel of the Fates out loud.

The way the girl sings it makes it more real and a little more magical. Cheesy? Yes, absolutely. But it's possible to like something that's cheesy. I agree that most Williams songs with lyrics sound cheesy. I would include in that anything from Star Wars (Duel of the Fates, Ewok Celebration, and Jedi Rocks), even though I still like those songs.

Now there's an overstatement. Giacchino scored one scene very well and he's automatically the best composer in the world? I think he's shown talent in his orchestration that puts him a cut above most others, but Star Trek has something odd about it that screams of director influence. I think there's too much of that going around to really tell how good someone can really write. I never said he's the best composer in the world, I just said he deserved the Oscar (admittedly I was a bit hyperbolic). I have no opinion of him outside of Up because I've never listened to any of his other scores.

Nobody wins an Oscar by default! Ok, maybe in short topic foreign language animated documentary, but not for best score. Even if I'm wrong, certainly Up did not win by default. I'm by no means a Giacchino defender (I had no idea who he was until very recently), but the first 15 minutes of Up practically deserve a lifetime achievement award when paired with the images on the screen.

I am perfectly satisfied with the one track I have from Danny Elfman's Dick Tracy - I think it is a suite or maybe it's the main titles. Either way, it has all the main themes, including what I would imagine is the love theme. I was watching the film a few years ago and fell in love with that theme, so I bought it. But I have no need for the rest of the score. By the way, I think it's useless to try to boil any Star Wars film down to one track. Asteroid Field is at least in my top 20 tracks (and that's a huge compliment), but there are just so many good themes and cues, I don't think I could choose one to epitomize the franchise. Not even the Main Theme.

I don't usually look forward to scores. I take an interest in a score once I hear it if I like it, even if it's John Williams. I probably shouldn't have even voted because my response was mostly, "meh." The only reason I'm a little excited for Harry Potter is because I'm hopeful there will be more of the stuff I love from HP 1-3 in Deathly Hallows. I only voted for Pirates 4 because I had to vote for something for my vote to register!

I voted for ESB and AOTC. Both decisions were difficult, because most of my favorite JW tracks of all time are end credits or finales, including (in no particular order): - Leaving Hogwarts (SS) - End Credits (E.T. - I also love the chase and farewell) - End Credits (TLC) - T-Rex Rescue and Finale (Jurassic Park) - The album version of Birth of the Twins through the End Credits (ROTS) However, I chose ESB because virtually every note from the light saber duel till the end is absolutely thrilling, and I adore the love theme leading into the End Credits. This is probably my favorite JW score and favorite 3rd act overall. The ending of AOTC kind of mirrors ESB, which is probably why I like it so much. It's slightly behind ESB but it's still stellar in my opinion. ROTS would be a close second - Battle of the Heroes is brilliant, period. Scores like JP, SS, and ROTLA are among my favorites overall, but not for their third acts (even though they have excellent finales). ROTJ and ANH are probably in my top 5 favorite 3rd acts. P.S. Why do you think it is that the Star Wars movies have such good 3rd acts? I would say it is simply because action movies tend to build till the final act which gives the composer better material to work with, but shouldn't that be true with most movies?

I love all the tracks so I can't pick my favorites, but I will highlight three that come to my head: 1) We Don't Wanna Grow Up - I like the playful piano melody that makes its debut at the beginning of this cue and is used in other places later on. 2) Banning Back Home - I'm surprised how many people mentioned this one. It's very different from typical Williams style, yet that type of sound was heard so frequently in the early 90s. It could have been the soundtrack to an Oscar Meyer commercial from the period (or it may have been playing in an elevator). I like it because it's a little cheesy, but fun. 3) When You're Alone - This is probably the only track I listen to out of the context of this score - sometimes I'll shuffle it into a non-soundtrack playlist. I'll even listen to it twice in a row on occasion. It's kind of mesmerizing, somewhat sleep-inducing, but it always makes me smile.

Data, your post is like a thought bubble from my head when I was first reading the poll. Except substitute, "Jurassic Park" for "Star Wars." It just happens that Jurassic Park was the first John Williams score I stumbled upon, mostly because that movie came out when I was the right age to care about movies or music. Star Wars followed very closely, then Indiana Jones, all before I hit high school. By that time I was a John Williams fan. I grew to love lots of JWs other music, including Harry Potter (I'm actually more of a HP fan than a JW fan, but it's close - and more for the books than for the music). I like individual works by other composers, but I would never be drawn to a score simply because it was written by a particular composer, other than John Williams. So I voted for Jurassic Park, because I wouldn't be here without it (though I wouldn't say "The Jurassic Park films," just the first one.)

Even though I am a score enthusiast, I don't usually notice the score too much when I watch a movie. If I do notice the score, it probably means there's something wrong, because the score shouldn't steal the show or disrupt the viewing experience, only complement and enhance it (IMO*). I noticed the score for Inception in the trailers, but I think that was deliberate. In the film it didn't stick out too much to me. What I do remember of the score was good. The fog horn motif kind of reminds me of Dennis Steals the Embryo, but not in a plagiaristic sort of way. In short, I think it's an innovative but appropriate score. (*P.S. This rule isn't always true for JW scores because I often enjoy them more than the movie itself.)

Hook taught me "effortlessly." Oh, the wonders of cinema. And I get what this thread is talking about, but the only example I can think of for me is the opening line of the Black-eyed Peas, "I got a feeling." When I think the notes in my head, they never are exactly the ones they sing. The intervals are difficult to strike blindly.

I think what makes the ending "beautiful" is that there is ample evidence for several possible scenarios, i.e., 1) Cobb was dreaming the whole time - and there are several people whose dream the film could have been, 2) there were portions of reality but Cobb never woke from limbo at the end, 3) Cobb woke from limbo and we take the ending at face value. What separates this from a "ridiculous, predictable trick," in my opinion, is that it wasn't simply a cop-out. True, similar devices have been used to get the audience thinking at the moment the screen goes black. However, this wasn't just a lazy, "throw a tantalizing final shot at the end" on Nolan's part. He must have painstakingly worked over this script and every shot to make sure there were enough clues to support each of the possible scenarios without completely disproving the others. It is a difficult balance to make a story just convoluted enough to generate deep contemplation without letting it collapse under its own weight. I think this story strikes the perfect balance. The top was so vital to the film, it begged to be used in the final shot. Nolan basically had a choice - show the top fall over, or cut just before it did. I think that although letting it hit the ground would have made a lot of people happy, it wouldn't have fit the mood of the rest of the film. In short, I like the ending. I also love how you can just watch the movie straight through and take it at face value without getting too confused. It's only when you start to rethink the whole movie at the end that your mind gets blown.

I think there are a lot more layers to the film than first meets the eye. In the initial viewing, I agree it is fairly straightforward and easy to follow. But then after it's over you're forced to rethink everything you saw. I just spent some time reading a message board discussing the film and there were dozens of issues brought up that I hadn't even thought of. I think it's genius when anyone can make so many people talk about something as trivial as a movie in such depth - and no one seems to agree on anything. I love it.

I don't remember that in the film. In fact, I seem to remember Leo saying something entirely different, something about how strange things in dreams don't seem strange until you wake up. QuestionMarkMan is right - aside from being explicitly stated by one of the characters, a key internal law in the film is that the dream world needs to be relatively normal so the projections don't react like "white blood cells." But you're also right about Leo's line, but both apply in different ways. And I didn't feel like it was a copout - every fantasy world needs its own set of rules to keep us anchored.

I'm glad I saw Inception before I read this discussion. For those of you who haven't seen it, let me balance the scales a little bit. Inception was incredible - I was already intrigued by the premise when I saw the first previews months ago, but the execution was even better than what I imagined. It felt long but not boring - I was on the edge of my seat with my jaw on the floor for the full 2 1/2 hours. I have never been a fan of Leo but I think he did an excellent job - even better than Shutter Island (which I thought was good but too predictable). The rest of the cast was great as well - especially Ellen Page and Joseph Gordon-Levitt. The effects were mind-boggling and seamlessly incorporated into the live action - I've read that Nolan avoided CGI but I don't think this movie could have been made even five years ago. I was immersed in the alternate reality of the movie for the entire time. Far from considering walking out, I forgot I was even in a theater. The plot was intellectual and clever - it's not like The Sixth Sense, where there's one big kicker at the end. It has a coherent plot with a definite narrative, but there are multiple twists and ample opportunity for head scratching. It's kind of like Ocean's 11 if it occurred in The Matrix with the form of Mission: Impossible. It had a greater impact on me than any of those movies and I'm itching to see it again so I can comprehend what I saw. In short, the average person (as opposed to a trained critic) can go into this movie with hyped expectations and still be blown away. I would be surprised if the film was not nominated in at least 3 categories for the Oscars (actors, effects, screenplay come to mind). I think it deserves to be in the Top 10 for Best Picture (especially if Avatar could make it last year - which was a blockbuster as well), but obviously many will disagree.

I love this post. To someone like me who knows nothing about Star Trek (outside of the most recent film), it's pretty hilarious. I think I just got a taste of what outsiders think when they see my posts on HP or Star Wars.

Harry Potter absolutely deals with themes of human nature and society. LOTR may endure because its form is closer to true "literature" or art. Harry Potter is very accessible and lighthearted which causes many to mistake it for pure entertainment. That doesn't mean it has no lasting value as a means of enlightenment.

Potter will still be relevant in 50 years. People like me will introduce it to their children when they reach the right age, and it will stay alive like the old Disney movies. The books, hopefully, will be the base of that relevance, but I don't think the movies will disappear. Our grandchildren will grow up on Potter like I did on Bambi and Pinnochio. Those of you who are not Potter fans may not have been at the midnight book releases or the midnight showings of the films - if you had, you would have seen absolute fanaticism that rivals or perhaps surpasses LOTR, certainly, and maybe even some of the Star Wars films. I'm sure there were more than a few Gandalfs on the streets on opening night of ROTK, but there were dozens of Hermiones, Snapes, and Dumbledores at the small suburban book store where I purchased Deathly Hallows.

You're probably right. It would be amazing but we should probably keep our hopes down so we're not bitterly disappointed. There's probably 1 in a million chance he'll do it.

Is that to say it would clear Williams' schedule for DH2? Is Tin Tin the 3rd score you're referring to? (excuse my ignorance)

You may be right about the inferno sequence, but I thought the suspense was well executed and needed for the adults in the theater. And I had forgotten about the stinky pete story - I think it's best not to watch the first and second in this series before you watch the new one, because they do tend to revisit the same themes and plot points, just with a fresh approach. Overall if I had to choose one to watch again tonight, I'd choose the 3rd one. That doesn't mean it's better than the others, though.

I definitely understand where you're coming from. (I actually cast my vote for Transformers.) I thought you were, but there's always hope. I've never examined the score but I liked the movie.

You definitely need to manage your expectations when you watch a film. If you're going to pay money to see something, you need to have a good idea of what you're paying for or else you're going to be disappointed, i.e., wasting money. I saw all of the movies on the list except Terminator and Wolverine, and I enjoyed all of them for what they were because I had reasonable expectations that were fulfilled. However, trying to be as objective as possible, I would probably rate those I've seen this way: 1) ROTS 2) AWE 3) KOTCS 4) JP3 5) ROTF I think the only reason ROTS or KOTCS got any votes is due to mismanaged expectations, i.e., people unrealistically hoped for something as good as or better than the original in the series, even after having no such luck twice in a row (give or take, depending on your opinion of the other films in each franchise). I have a hard time believing that an objective observer would find ROTS to be a poor film in its own right. It may not be great, or nearly as good as the original trilogy, but it's still quite an amazing achievement in filmmaking. The same could be said, to a lesser extent, of KOTCS (I think it's flaws or more glaring, even though I still like it quite a bit). If the Star Wars films had been released in chronological order, I don't think there would be as much backlash against the prequels. (Friends of mine who have viewed them for the first-time in that order didn't find the original trilogy to be nearly as inspired as most of us find it. We're all biased!)