Bellosh

I think you're right that you can't measure in degrees of conflictedness.
 
But I prefer to think in terms of what's compelling to watch. Luke searching for answers for how to fix the past and inadvertently abandoning his friends doesn't hit me as hard as Luke deliberately abandoning his friends because of the guilt he feels for a fleeting moment of primal and war-like violence. The shame he displays - not only as a result of the moment, but also in how he selfishly justifies the abandonment - is compelling to watch. It's a commentary about how when we (as individuals and as a society) mature our binary ideas about right and wrong become only more muddled and difficult to navigate. The greatest triumph of Luke was removing the burden of shame and redeeming himself with a final, powerful act of nonviolence to counter his earlier struggle, and stand for what is right in the face of the oppressive forces of war and hatred. That, to me, is a story worth telling, especially now.
 
Again, I get why people didn't like it. But it worked very well for me, and helped to push the boundaries for legacy franchises beyond hammering the nostalgia button.

But also a lot less conflicted.

I think it should’ve been handled by having Luke be on that island as a part of this long isolated journey he has been on to gather more knowledge to ensure that he actually learns from the mistakes of the past, so he doesn’t have another situation where the Jedi temple self-destructs itself
 
He feels bad that he walked away from Han and Leia during their time of grief but does it because he believes it’s better to not get bogged down in lamenting what he lost and instead move forward to get ahead of the forces of evil - that is the Jedi way after all
 
Something that Luke does constantly and is an actual weakness for him is willingly going off on his own, and it would be interesting to explore how that affects him when it’s for an extended period of time. That way it retcons the look Luke gives Rey at the end of TFA into being brought back down to earth temporarily as he’s forced to face the world he has largely been ignorant of, which brings back feelings of guilt. Luke cares about his friends deeply, and he has to wrestle with the conflict of his moral duty as a Jedi and his strong personal attachments - can the two actually be reconciled?
 
There you go, a conflicted Luke that’s far more in line with the character established in the OT and isn’t someone who has given up because he failed once

Hermit Luke and his arc was one of the best things about TLJ. That's how you do something new with a bland character who's been around for decades. While I would have loved seeing the original trio interacting with each other their tragic separation and lack of reunion is a more compelling story IMO. It hits extra hard after Fisher's death.
 
I can totally understand why it divided people, but for me it's the fulcrum of the whole trilogy. Had Trevorrow's (flawed, but infinitely superior) script for the third film been realised I genuinely think the sequel trilogy would have gone down much better than it did.

One of the rumors I remember before The Last Jedi came out, was that right at the start of the movie the first orders traces Luke to Ach To and Luke and Rey fight Kylo Ren and the Knights of Ren. Id much prefer something like that to hermit Luke!

as soon as i knew the emperor was back....i immediately lost every ounce of excitement.  I couldn't believe it to be honest.
 
THE SCORE IS LOVELY THOUGH!

I mean, I actually think its a really good setup...

Do yourself a favour: keep it that way.

I definitely disagree.
 
Can i ask you though, with actual sincerity....how do you think RJ should have handled Luke with what was hinted at the end of TFA.  I'm not trying to build a straw man argument here, I'm just honestly curious.  I'm not looking to combat each point.
 
again, i'm not a crazy fan of TLJ, haven't even seen Rise of Skywalker.

I agree, it was JJ who painted RJ into a corner where he had to justify why the hell Luke decided to exile himself on a secluded island, abandon all his friends despite knowing their plight, and explain how Snoke/KR/The FO hadn't already located Luke years prior (on account of how force-sensitive he is).

But if you think about it. If Luke was on the island and just using the force all the time, the First Order would've found him already. Either Snoke or Kylo Ren could've used the force for that.
 
So it makes sense that he cut himself of from the force, otherwise he would've already been found.

TFA and JJ decided to hint at Luke being a recluse in a far away system.  Unless JJ & RJ decided on this before TLJ????  I don't follow most of SW so I wouldn't know, but I doubt it.
 
RJ handled Luke EXACTLY how the character was portrayed at the end of TFA, and handled it well.  Whether you agree or disagree with how, that's ON TFA!  You don't all of a sudden hint at a character being miserable and alone on a planet and then midway through he becomes 'return of the jedi luke'.  Regardless, his force projection was an incredible send off to the character that TFA MADE!
 
IMO, Luke should HAVE NEVER BEEN IN THE SEQUEL TRILOGY.  He should have just been mentioned as the Jedi 'god' he truly was.  He should have been a myth to all these new characters.  The sequels shouldn't have had ANY original characters.  It should have gone it's own way without relying on old characters to make us feel good in our movie theater seat.

Abrams definitely set-up Luke being reluctant to rejoin the conflict. Johnson just took it further with cutting himself off from The Force and with the backstory of him having contemplated killing Kylo.

TFA and JJ decided to hint at Luke being a recluse in a far away system.  Unless JJ & RJ decided on this before TLJ????  I don't follow most of SW so I wouldn't know, but I doubt it.
 
RJ handled Luke EXACTLY how the character was portrayed at the end of TFA, and handled it well.  Whether you agree or disagree with how, that's ON TFA!  You don't all of a sudden hint at a character being miserable and alone on a planet and then midway through he becomes 'return of the jedi luke'.  Regardless, his force projection was an incredible send off to the character that TFA MADE!
 
IMO, Luke should HAVE NEVER BEEN IN THE SEQUEL TRILOGY.  He should have just been mentioned as the Jedi 'god' he truly was.  He should have been a myth to all these new characters.  The sequels shouldn't have had ANY original characters.  It should have gone it's own way without relying on old characters to make us feel good in our movie theater seat.

For me The Rise of Skywalker is the worst of them all. It just never clicked for me. Never even had a real engaging sequence. At least Attack of the Clones has fun action sequences and interesting things that happen (often visually). But TROS... it all looked like everything we've seen before. And don't get me started on all the other issues that movie had. And people like to hate on Last Jedi... to me that one at least felt like a movie.

Thinking about it, I think my biggest problem with the sequel trilogy (beyond ending with one of the actual worst movies ever made by a mainstream studio) is that ultimately they weren't about anything really.  Even the worst MCU movies are always about something (like Thor: The Dark World is about complicated family relationships and how to process losing a family member, whether you think it does those things well or not!).  RJ certainly attempted to make it about something more than JJ, but if anything that just makes the trilogy even worse.

I've always thought about it in a similar manner

TFA and JJ decided to hint at Luke being a recluse in a far away system.  Unless JJ & RJ decided on this before TLJ????  I don't follow most of SW so I wouldn't know, but I doubt it.
 
RJ handled Luke EXACTLY how the character was portrayed at the end of TFA, and handled it well.  Whether you agree or disagree with how, that's ON TFA!  You don't all of a sudden hint at a character being miserable and alone on a planet and then midway through he becomes 'return of the jedi luke'.  Regardless, his force projection was an incredible send off to the character that TFA MADE!
 
IMO, Luke should HAVE NEVER BEEN IN THE SEQUEL TRILOGY.  He should have just been mentioned as the Jedi 'god' he truly was.  He should have been a myth to all these new characters.  The sequels shouldn't have had ANY original characters.  It should have gone it's own way without relying on old characters to make us feel good in our movie theater seat.

TFA and JJ decided to hint at Luke being a recluse in a far away system.  Unless JJ & RJ decided on this before TLJ????  I don't follow most of SW so I wouldn't know, but I doubt it.
 
RJ handled Luke EXACTLY how the character was portrayed at the end of TFA, and handled it well.  Whether you agree or disagree with how, that's ON TFA!  You don't all of a sudden hint at a character being miserable and alone on a planet and then midway through he becomes 'return of the jedi luke'.  Regardless, his force projection was an incredible send off to the character that TFA MADE!
 
IMO, Luke should HAVE NEVER BEEN IN THE SEQUEL TRILOGY.  He should have just been mentioned as the Jedi 'god' he truly was.  He should have been a myth to all these new characters.  The sequels shouldn't have had ANY original characters.  It should have gone it's own way without relying on old characters to make us feel good in our movie theater seat.

i have no problem with his arc in TLJ....i just can't fathom blaming RJ for it (TLJ has plenty of flaws)
 
What did people want?  Luke just saying "yeah i'll help" right away?  Where's the conflict.  Unfortunately TLJ is about Luke way more than it should have ever been.  We didn't need Luke anymore.  It was all to make us feel warm and happy with another original character.  But that's the fault of TFA....it relied far too much on fan-service.  Which is why conceptually, the prequels will always be better.

I particularly love the expansion because we get more of the "militaristic" Dunbar theme that's first heard in the opening credits but more fleshed out in cues like "Spit and Polish"

I particularly love the expansion because we get more of the "militaristic" Dunbar theme that's first heard in the opening credits but more fleshed out in cues like "Spit and Polish"

Great release of a great score, get it while you can!

I wasn't. I like the LLL complete edition far more.
 
Yavar

Worse than THE RISE OF SKYWALKER?
I think not!
At least it was directed by someone who gave the appearance of knowing what he was doing.