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Everything posted by Mattris

  1. How do you know it's boring if you haven't read it? How else do you plan to obtain enlightenment? With the Sequel Trilogy, many are already claiming "amateur storytelling". Perhaps they just don't understand the trajectory of the Saga and that this continued story is consistent with the previous episodes, with and abundance of clues that foreshadow events to come. The truth is, Lucasfilm conceived a plan for the Sequel Trilogy and stuck to it. The risk they took was in the manner of its presentation: Playing peoples' expectations and preconceptions against them... then executing the finale, blowing everyone away. The events that will conclude the Saga will be unexpected to most, not because the story didn't make sense, but because people didn't think these film makers had it in them to truly surprise and impress. Some of JJ's recent statements: “Some people feel like we shouldn’t revisit the idea of Palpatine, and I completely understand that. But if you’re looking at these nine films as one story, I don’t know many books where the last few chapters have nothing to do with those that have come before. If you look at the first eight films, all the set-ups of what we’re doing in IX are there in plain view.” “This is about bringing this thing to a close… if years from now, someone’s watching these movies, all nine of them, they’re watching a story that is as cohesive as possible.” “...we are not screwing around.” I'm curious, what about the writing do you think is JV-league? Do you have an idea of where the story is headed? If not, perhaps it's your discernment and understanding of Star Wars that is JV-league.
  2. Luke's Theme featured prominently means that Luke is returning... in the flesh. "No one's ever really gone."
  3. If anyone will be welcoming Star Wars fans to the "real world", it will be me.
  4. Yes, we were @Arpy. In regards to Lucasfilm's handling of Star Wars, @Jay has made it clear that he wants any questioning- or negative-toned messages to be posted in this thread. Any such talk is regularly moved here... especially quick once I join the conversation, even though I am no longer disenchanted. It's already quite difficult to avoid the controversy, negativity, and confusion surrounding current Star Wars projects. But after TROS is released, it will be all but impossible. On this forum, any confusion will only be exacerbated if whole chucks of discussion are constantly being moved.
  5. As someone that consumed a majority of the new canon material and pieced-together the (abundance of) clues as to where the story is headed, I can assure you: It will not be "easy to ignore" Episode IX. This entire conversation was moved here to the 'Star Wars Disenchantment' thread. Allow me to welcome you to the meat of the Star Wars discussion on JWFan. You are right to question Lucasfilm's plans, motives, and messaging regarding Star Wars. No doubt, something is afoot... and something's coming.
  6. The Last Jedi was provocative as a very deliberate (and teasing) set-up for The Rise of Skywalker - not just "for provocation's sake". The film's climax couldn't have been that "the Jedi should indeed end" because that wasn't the message the film ended with. Yoda told Luke that the Jedi need not adhere to "a pile of old books". And Luke told Ben, "I will not be the last Jedi." But Rey will continue to 'come to terms' with other aspects of her life, which will indeed be powerful and actually meaningful... in due time. After 'The Opera Scene' in Revenge of the Sith, the end of the story cannot be Return of the Jedi. A long-term-planning Sith Lord as powerful as Palpatine, who spoke of creating life, being afraid to loose power, and cheating death would not have invited the Rebels and a Jedi to kill him... and not a have a Contingency plan to eventually return. (And, as per the canon materiel, he did.) George Lucas said himself that if a Sequel Trilogy was made, Palpatine would return. Nothing will be undermined, as it makes perfect sense. To destroy a single Dreadnaught Star Destroyer, Poe put the Resistance fleet at risk, and lost the entire bomber squadron. He disobeyed a direct order from General Leia and was demoted. After what had just transpired - and given the circumstances, Vice Admiral Holdo had no reason to trust Poe. "Loose lips sink ships." And that exactly what happens, as DeeJay overhears Rose and Finn talk with Poe about the evacuating transports... and informs the First Order. The lesson was: To be a respected leader, you must pick your battles wisely and exhibit selfless qualities. By the end of the film, Poe had earned back Leia's respect. "Don't look at me. Follow him." I think nearly everyone has misunderstood the Sequel Trilogy. Those who believe this trilogy was made for maximum profit have missed the plot... literally. Along with so many others, I think you will find that you have misinterpreted the Sequel Trilogy. I'm confident that something very different is coming that will give new meaning to the Trilogy... and Saga as a whole story.
  7. I do not leak. I learn... and theorize. I thought the full trailer might have been released yesterday... but it will likely premiere next Monday. But yes, I think that line (by Emperor Palpatine from Return of the Jedi) will be how it ends. A predict similar line will appear in The Rise of Skywalker... and I think I know who he'll be welcoming. Regardless, I certainly managed to welcome everyone back to this thread.
  8. "Welcome... I have been expecting you."
  9. Nice try, @Score, but just seeing the movie will not prove anything, as you could easily claim, "The ending to the Saga made sense... but they didn't plan it." What specific - or general - evidence will you believe to conclude that Lucasfilm had a plan for the Sequel Trilogy from the beginning? Also, you failed to address Lucasfilm's conflicting messaging regarding their 'plan'... or lack thereof.
  10. @Score I posed two questions: 1. What evidence would you believe that indicates Lucasfilm had a plan for the Sequel Trilogy from its inception? 2. Do you understand why Kennedy, Johnson, and Abrams have released conflicting messaging on this matter? (Or... Why do think they released conflicting messaging regarding a 'plan'?) Instead of answering, you advised me to "just wait a couple of months!" and said "There is absolutely no logical way to know it beforehand, because none of us witnessed the meetings between the creators". Witnessing meetings is not required to use logic based on the evidence at hand. The evidence I presented was wide-ranging, and all of the events and statements that I recalled - from the films, canon, and real-world - are true. You also said "basically anything else can be done and justified within the context of the story." This is not the case, as JJ Abrams is limited by what has occurred in the previous films... and technically, the new canon material. He can not do "anything", and he even issued a statement: "If you look at the first eight films, all the set-ups of what we’re in IX are there in plain view." I never said that I "can decipher with absolute certainty" or that I "expect them to do exactly what I think because ... logic dictates it". I used the information (facts) at hand to construct a basic theory for how the Saga might end. Quite frankly, I don't think a more "satisfying" (JJ's assurance) or shocking conclusion to the Saga can be written, but I certainly would welcome it. We shall see. And yes, I do have a "plausible conclusion" to the story of my theory for Episode IX. Answer my two questions, and I'll post it. Short answers are fine.
  11. What evidence would you believe that indicates Lucasfilm had a plan for the Sequel Trilogy once TFA had completed pre-production? Do you understand why Kennedy, Johnson, and Abrams have released conflicting messaging on this matter?
  12. No, @Chen G., it's you who are not getting it. My argument has no holes. Logic dictates that the filmmakers had a plan for the Sequel Trilogy from the beginning. The specific plot elements (and lines) in the films and canon are the evidence. They couldn't have been 'making it up as they go' since all of the dozens of canon works link together... impossible if there wasn't an over-arching plan for the principal characters and story, elements of which the Lucasfilm Story Group provided to the canon writers for elaboration. After reading my logical explanations, what makes you think the filmmakers didn't have those plot elements in their minds as they were making The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi? Skepticism and contradiction are not valid arguments.
  13. Then you, like so many others, have been fooled. I expect Episode IX and its aftermath to be quite the journey to enlightenment... after the long road of ignorance, denial, and deceit.
  14. Had Lucasfilm stated that they had a plan early on, the mystery and intrigue would have been severely diminished... and that's not JJ Abrams' style. Their current claims directly contradict their earlier ones. That's part of the trick to keep the audience confused and distracted. They were either lying before ('No plan.') or they're lying now ('We've had a plan.'). All real-world evidence points to the former being the case. My cIaims are based on factual evidence. After all that I've presented, @Chen G. , why continue to deny the obvious?
  15. That's just it. Early on, they did not want to claim credit for their plan. In fact, they made it a point to say they didn't have a plan... on multiple occasions. This - on top of the 'fact' that TFA was a 'basically remake of ANH with a Mary Sure character' - led to significant pubic confusion and discourse. This was their strategy from the start of it all: People (fans) would believe their lies ('No plan for the Sequel Trilogy.'), and later think their 'We actually had a plan all along.' claims were a lie. All evidence indicates that this is part of the 'grand plan' to keep the masses confused and upset going into IX... at which point they'll be blown away, having not seen any of it coming. (That is, unless you were able to decode their swath of clues, rewarding those who took the time and effort to consume the canon, ponder the films' events/lines, watch their interviews, Twitter feeds, etc.)
  16. Sure, the early canon novels feature tons of clues. Star Wars: Aftermath: Empire's End is a Star Wars novel by Chuck Wendig, published on February 21, 2017. It is the third book of the Aftermath trilogy, set after the events of Return of the Jedi. Immediately after the The Rise of Skywalker teaser was released: The book features Palpatine before his 'death', as well as details of his Contingency. The second book in the trilogy, Aftermath: Life Debt (published July 12, 2016), also contains pertinent Palpatine backstory, scenes, and references.
  17. It should be obvious that "logical and simple" have not been Lucasfilm's modem operandi as of late. The fact is, you have no idea how "these movies are made" and have presented no evidence to support your 'no plan' theory. (Pointing to George Lucas' approach doesn't count.) On the other hand, I have presented a vast array of evidence of a "master plan at work". You might want to do more than 'skim my arguments'. Abrams' and Kennedy's latest comments make it clear that they did have a plan, so actually "you are the one making extraordinary claims and the burden of proof rests squarely and solely on your shoulders." Also, I did not say this story had "been planned out for 40 years" - only that this trilogy's story and primary characters were planned during the pre-production of TFA. What you call "wild speculation around every comment" from those making current Star Wars, I call decoding their intentionally-presented clues. My approach is merited, as Daisy Ridley said in a produced bit for Good Morning America after Star Wars Celebration: 'Our comments now don't seem to make sense, but later, you'll be like, Oh, that's what they meant by that!' So claiming "the comments these people make to the media aren’t usually true hints at anything, they’re just random nonsense meant to get people excited about the movie" has been specifically addressed and squashed by the lead actress. So not only are they giving us clues to their plan, they're telling us that they're giving clues. Yes, "this stuff" is marketing. Shame nearly everyone thinks the stuff means nothing when these film makers are utilizing grossly unorthodox methods at every turn to draw attention to their trIXie plan for the Sequel Trilogy. This includes Bob Iger saying that George Lucas felt "betrayed" when his Sequel Trilogy treatments weren't used... in his book released just 3 months before release of Episode IX. If you think Lucasfilm's approach to marketing "is to sell more tickets", you are completely out of touch, as a significant percentage of Star Wars fans would be happy to scrub this trilogy from canon if they could. I say that Disney/Lucasfilm expected fans' ignorant/upset/confused frame of mind - even counted on it - as the unexpected grandeur of Episode IX will only smack the unsuspecting audience that much harder. "Here’s a tip for you." Criticizing my use of "big words" only makes you look petty. John Williams used "cornucopia" while introducing his Harry Potter music back in 2002, so pardon me for using it in this forum.
  18. @rough cut Do you have any evidence that supports the 'no plan for the Sequel Trilogy' theory? Saying George Lucas didn't have a plan for the OT doesn't count. Without evidence, Chen claims that the especially intriguing lines of dialog in TFA - as they occur during major scenes - had no intended meaning... and that John Williams wasn't told anything about the story or characters of the trilogy (in order to reference in his score) because, he insists, there was no plan for the Saga-ending Sequel Trilogy, even when a cornucopia of evidence (including basic logic) points to the contrary. Chen also said it was "absolutely adorable that think Kylo was always planning on betraying Snoke" and that "its cute that you want to treat them as some great pieces of set-up for the final film, but they're really not" without providing evidence. I said that George Lucas was a master at crafting stories. Screenwriting, a major issue of the Prequel Trilogy, is not the same thing. The Prequels could have been significantly better films had the scripts been polished, a different young Anakin cast (His second choice would have been perfect!), no Jar Jar Binks (or any foolish characters featured), and Episodes II and III utilizing much less (obvious) green-screen and significant reliance on CGI.
  19. Well, let's see. My position is supported by... - Palpatine and Darth Vader being mentioned - or heavily featured - in every form of canon material (dating back to the earliest volumes). - The fact that a prominent saga-spanning story through-line exists, with a substantial amount of evidence from the films and canon material that elaborates and ties-in to the films. - The fact that Palpatine was the primary villain in the third installment of the other trilogies. - The death of Snoke in VIII, making way for Palpatine to be the primary villain in IX. - Hints of the Emperor and Vader's themes within Rey's Theme, as well as the scores. (With The Emperor's Theme played prominently, note-for-note in TLJ during a major scene.) - The fact that no explanation for Rey has been presented, while it has been heavily implied that Anakin was Force-created by Palpatine (and even explicitly stated by Palpatine in an pre-shooting script for ROTS). - The unfulfilling deaths of Han and Luke. - Simple logic: With so much at stake - including professional legacies, billions in (potential lost) revenue, and the support of a massive, passionate fandom - the film-makers would not have approached a trilogy of this magnitude film-to-film without a basic story and the character arcs and motivations locked in. - Rian Johnson and other Lucasfilm employees infamous for antagonizing and trolling disenchanted/confused fans. ("Manbabies", "assholes", "We don't care.", Fanboy Tears mugs, etc.) - Lucasfilm allowing the mainstream / access media to run with generalizing / false narratives (The upset fans are racist and sexist!) without issuing any form of appeasement or reassurance. - The very latest comments from Lucasfilm President and trilogy Executive producer, stating that they planned Palpatine's return and left 'set-ups in plain view' in the films. - The fact that writer/producer/director JJ Abrams is well known to be the keeper of the 'Mystery Box', with major surprises and twist endings in all of his projects. - The shooting title for Episode IX was trIXie. (They even bragged about making 'trIXie' shirts for the cast and crew.) - The title of the final film of the saga is The Rise of Skywalker. "If they had the bloody thing figured out, why would each film need pre-production time? Why would they need to write a script for each film individually?" Simple: Disney/Lucasfilm pre-established that the films would be released two years apart, with a vast amount of canon material to be released in the interim. No need to rush the production of the films and make them all in one go. Focusing on each film, one at a time, two years apart, allowed a less hectic approach so they could make sure they achieved their story-telling goals. Kathleen Kennedy's 'making it up as they go' comment was simply a lighthearted call-back to a line from Raiders of the Lost Ark. It is not proof that they hadn't conceived the basic story outline and main character arcs. Lucasfilm just hadn't worked out the plot details, minor characters, or scripts. And the films did not have "different filmmakers each". It was just JJ and Rian Johnson, with JJ receiving Executive Producer credit on all of them. (In all likelihood, Abrams and Kasdan conceived the basic story outline for the trilogy, with Johnson adding new characters and details for the middle film that he directed. Then with a two year break, JJ was always planned to return for the final episode.) Making the Sequel Trilogy "cheaper" was clearly not Lucasfilm's goal. Nor was presenting the trilogy in this manner designed for maximum short-term profit. With an incredibly divided, unenthusiastic, and confused fandom going into IX, this should be obvious. @Chen G. You were wrong when you said Williams just "shows up, sees reels of film, and starts composing. He doesn't read scripts and doesn't attend story meetings: he only scores what's in front of him on the screen". You were wrong about Palpatine returning and it being a good idea. You will be proven wrong about underestimating Abrams ('No plan.') and Williams ('No clues within Rey's Theme.'). I'm shocked that you claimed that the musical similarities in Rey's Theme are "like saying that the words Empire and Jedi are etymologically connected because they both feature the characters e and i." What an ignorant, uneducated claim. Mark my words, you will be proven wrong about everything.
  20. Or maybe it's not above Rian Johnson to lie when he said 'he could do whatever he wanted with Episode VIII after not meeting with (Executive Producer) JJ Abrams'. (Or perhaps Johnson spoke extensively with JJ over the phone or email.) The interviewer wanted a definitive answer, and Kathleen Kennedy gave it to him: Episode IX was always going to include Palpatine's return. This aligns with this recent statement from JJ Abrams: "Some people feel like we shouldn’t revisit the idea of Palpatine, and I completely understand that. But if you’re looking at the nine films as one story, I don’t know many books where the last few chapters have nothing to do with those that have come before. If you look at the first eight films, all the set-ups of what we’re in IX are there in plain view." This confirms that my selected (intriguing) quotes from TFA, TLJ, and the canon material were included quite deliberately as "set-ups" and proof of their plan. Episode IX will reveal their meaning. With so much at stake, Abrams and Kennedy were never going to leave the story of the Sequel Trilogy up to chance, with three separate writers and directors. I'm sorry, but with all of this information at hand, only a fool would conclude otherwise.
  21. @Chen G. Do you believe Kathleen Kennedy when she confirmed that 'Palpatine was always planned to be in Episode IX' ?
  22. @Chen G. Do you think that Rian Johnson was allowed to kill off Snoke - in the particular way that it occurred in the film - without oversight or approval from Kathleen Kennedy, JJ Abrams, or any Disney executive?
  23. Who here is being irrational?
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