Mattris

Again you feel the need to diagnose me, @JTW. Let's have a look at you. Perhaps on some level you've realized the weakness of your position on the topic of Star Wars, especially compared against mine. Rather than attempt to strengthen or clarify your position, you've continued trying to diminish mine. You are clearly desperate to make me look bad even though my unique perspective has already been proven right on multiple fronts. You might hope that aligning with those 'against me' will finally dissuade or demoralize me. Rest assured, it won't. To summarize: You have presented no logical reasoning, no credible/corroborated evidence based on facts. Your entire thought process is driven by hardened opinions, having assumed so much for so long. You have no record of correct narrative/character predictions. You have never quoted from the Star Wars canon, excerpts that could bolster your interpretation of the story. You consider Star Wars "a kids movie" but have offered no insight, no interesting takes, and can't even tell me what you think the story is. You think the current makers of Star Wars don't understand the IP. You have no proof of any controversies happening at Lucasfilm, nor any proof of cancelled projects or fired film makers. (News reports aren't proof. Project announcements are not proof of pre-production or that said projects were ever intended to have been made.) You think those personally hired/appointed by George Lucas have been betraying their mentor/former boss, actions that could diminish his work and legacy. You don't like Star Wars beyond the OT, going so far as to dismiss its further installments from the overall story. The fact that your simplistic, pessimistic Star Wars conclusions are held by many people means absolutely nothing. All told... You shouldn't be surprised when you realize that your stance on Star Wars was weak, naive, and proven to have been objectively wrong. But you probably will be.

Just in case you missed it, Chen... In my fourth post on the previous page, I logically deduced how the Saga needed to continue past Episode VI, especially after the prequels gave context to the OT: After being instructed by the very individuals who weren't able to foresee - or do anything to prevent - the utter destruction of the Jedi Order and collapse of the Republic they served, why was it expected by the audience that former farm boy Luke Skywalker - along with his sister (Princess) Leia who sought out one of the individuals for help - would have been able to create a lasting, prosperous New Jedi Order and New Republic? (This, after their victory over a galactic empire by way of mere good intentions, violence, and mysterious magic powers.) In other words, what did the next generation of characters learn or experience throughout their journey that made clear that the story ended Happily Ever After... and would have not continued with the same things happening again with the subsequent generation? The answer: Nothing. The sequel trilogy showed what the audience should have expected: The same/similar events happened yet again. The story must continue still. The primary definition from Oxford Languages: al·le·go·ry /ˈaləˌɡôrē/ noun a story, poem, or picture that can be interpreted to reveal a hidden meaning, typically a moral or political one. Star Wars is precisely this, yet the 'reveals' are still to come.

I answered your three questions from pg. 187 regarding my perspective on Star Wars. Why don't you answer mine regarding the story of Star Wars? Until then, you'll get no response from me. What are you afraid of? "You will be. You... will be."

I expected those responses because I know the Star Wars audience's attention has been naturally drawn to the visually-stimulating, exciting action/adventure elements of the story. (I was for a long time.) So the audience's focus is understandable, especially for those who view the IP as escapism... a simple story of good vs. evil that clearly ends 'happily ever after'. But I view these elements as a distraction. The true purpose of Star Wars has nothing to do with space ships, lightsaber duels, or physical wars. It's really a spiritual battle.

Yes, politics... hence, allegory.

"That is why you fail."

Hint: Star Wars is not about space ships, lightsaber duels, or physical wars. A more serious question: If Han, Leia, and Chewy were the "bait", what exactly did Vader's "trap" entail? Chirrut Imwe (in Rogue One): There is more than one kind of prison, Captain. I feel that you carry yours with you wherever you go. Eedy Karn (in Andor): Everything says something, Syril. I've tried to make you understand that, but you've resisted. My interpretation of the Star Wars story is based on the fact that its foundations rest in mythology, allegory, and fairytale. Based on where the story progressed, multiple stated theories of mine have been proven accurate. They were formulated based on the only primary evidence that exists: the literal contents of the official canon material, dating back to the 1976 Star Wars novelization. Your interpretation is surface-level only - primarily the OT - with the assumption that Star Wars has changed for the worse. If you have any evidence of this, I haven't seen it. It's not me who is delusional.

Nah, I'm just testing my thoughts and theories with (presumably) real people. This response to my point and direct question causes me to think you do understand the logic but just don't want to give me credit... a consistency in this thread. Unlikely. I'm using the totality of the literal words of the Star Wars canon to interpret the story from the point of view that it is, by definition, a mythological allegorical fairytale. Your conclusions are based primarily on the assumption that your surface-level interpretation of the (single trilogy) story is correct and that the seemingly endless string of reported chaos at Lucasfilm over the last decade bolsters your overall assessment. Mind you, the sources of these 'reports' are unconfirmed, as are their allegiances. In truth, these presumed 'behind-the-scenes controversies' are most likely falsities put forth to distract the masses. But that won't stop people like you from believing them, will it? Surely, so many couldn't have been played as fools. That's impossible! Like it or not, my arguments over the last (nearly) five years have withstood scrutiny. Criticisms of my approach - and those of the Star Wars story itself - based in the underestimation of those in charge have been dismissed as a illegitimate, illogical, and most importantly, unproductive. Those who continue to proclaim 'Star Wars is bad now... or, at the very least, has taken a turn for the worse' is a fruitless endeavor and antithetical to the very purpose of this story which was created to instill hope and happiness to its audience. I remember I was saluted here after the (not so) shocking TROS teaser trailer dropped and after certain specific theories of mine were confirmed in the film itself. Mark my words, I will be saluted again... sooner or later. While I don't require such admiration from strangers who habitually doubt and disagree with me, I appreciate the debate and will get a laugh out of it. The fact that I'm alone here in my perspective makes me unique, Nick. That's all.

The only thing I'm trying to 'convince' anyone here of is that I have a more insightful - and ultimately, beneficial - interpretation of Star Wars than those here who tease me... those who claim that 'the Star Wars sky is falling', that George Lucas is being betrayed by the very people he hired, that trilogies can be ignored, that the current writers and executive creators have no plan for the story, and/or that Star Wars is a lame, escapist story with no intended meaning beyond its surface level: Families should stick together and ultimately, violence is the answer. Do you not understand my logical reasoning as it pertains to the progression of the story past Episode VI, as depicted in the sequel trilogy?

Ironic. It's you who shouted ~200 words at me. In a tiny fraction of that, why don't you write out what you think Star Wars is about? What do you think are its intended takeaways?

The saying certainly applies to the cyclical story of Star Wars. After being instructed by the very individuals who weren't able to foresee - or do anything to prevent - the utter destruction of the Jedi Order and collapse of the Republic they served, why was it expected by the audience that former farm boy Luke Skywalker - along with his sister (Princess) Leia who sought out one of the individuals for help - would have been able to create a lasting, prosperous New Jedi Order and New Republic? (This, after their victory over a galactic empire by way of mere good intentions, violence, and mysterious magic powers.) In other words, what did the next generation of characters learn or experience throughout their journey that made clear that the story ended Happily Ever After... and would have not continued with the same things happening again with the subsequent generation? The answer: Nothing. The sequel trilogy showed what the audience should have expected.

Of what am I "ignorant"? How am I an "immature child"? What about real life do you think I don't understand? I asked you for specifics. Try again. No, what I see in the literal canon material - dating all the way back to the OT scripts and novelizations - tells me what I theorize is so. A few years after ROTJ, Sir Alec Guinness said about Star Wars, "I hear now people disparaging the work, and I say, 'No, no. It's been done with great care and imagination. There's more to it than you think.'" The accomplished actor said he initially dismissed the work as 'science fiction' but spoke with Lucas and took the part, likely because he was told of the work's deeper meaning. Who are you to call me of all people "delusional"? What theories have you been right about? What Star Wars insight or interesting takes have you shared? A recommendation to ignore two entire film trilogies - everything but the OT - and to interpret this mythological allegorical fairytale based on its surface level, as would a small child? No thanks. I'll continue on a path that will actually benefit me as I continue to grow as a person... as we all should strive to do. (Such was the stated purpose of this story.) I'm positive that I "comprehend" a great deal more than you about Star Wars and its relevance to "real life". You've clearly hit a dead end and are lashing out in ignorance and frustration. Then why are you here, clearly concerned with it? I'm beginning to think you don't have it in you to type out what I've asked you repeatedly: WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE STORY OF STAR WARS?

George Lucas is not a 'Lucasfilm employee or contractor'. From my extensive contributions in this topic, I've already proven that I have 'expanded my interpretation beyond a relative surface-level'. Even with a swath of corroborating canon excerpts and logical reasoning, so many here doubted my theories (Emperor Palpatine's return, Rey's relation to him, Snoke being a puppet, Ben Solo being manipulated, clues to all this within John Williams' themes for these very characters, etc.). But I was right in my predictions. Regardless of what you and others truly think of me - or merely what you post publicly - nothing will ever change that. Moving forward, just imagine what else I might be right about... Perhaps you should examine yourself: Taking the time to aggressively 'diagnose' someone who has a different take on Star Wars than you... and appears to be on the right page. What exactly in my writings makes you think I'm "an ignorant immature child who doesn’t understand real life"? Why should someone so informed - and proven right - as me give your dismal, worthless, surface-level Star Wars take a smidgeon of credence? How exactly would that benefit me... or anyone? On the contrary, if you think the Star Wars story and implied message isn't more than what you see on screen, "you are emotionally and intellectually immature." George Lucas has spoken about Star Wars many times over the decades, making it clear that there's more to it than the audience has picked up on. Seems you're another one of those people who talks a big game in response to me but seems to be incapable of answering the most simple question, one that you really should have ready after so many bold Star Wars claims and assumptions throughout this forum. So I'll ask it again: What do you think is the story of Star Wars? Oh, so knowledgeable and humorous you are, Chen. But without a lick of wisdom.

1. Kathleen Kennedy, the executive producers, writers, and directors of the canon works (films, shows, novels, games, comics), all members of the Lucasfilm Story Group, Dave Filoni, Jon Faverau 2. My interpretation is that the story and grander intent of Star Wars has remained consistent, even with the newest installments. There was always a grand plan, and Kathleen Kennedy is seeing it through. Any who believe otherwise have an objectively incorrect interpretation of the story... and might be putting too much stock in the Lucasfilm-designed artifice meant to keep the masses distracted from their real plans. 3. Considerable thoughtfulness was required to escape the doldrums of disenchantment and ignorance. I managed to expand my interpretation beyond a relative surface-level. I believe in this 'space soap opera children's story' because I think it was intended to teach its audience valuable life lessons and universal truths... not only to 12-year-olds. Why do you think Star Wars doesn't have a message based in grander areas of thought or belief? George Lucas has been abundantly clear that he designed his story from these-type works of the past. Perhaps you can let me know what so many have trouble with: What do you think is the story of Star Wars?

Nah, I prefer to test and show the limits of your Star Wars comprehension. I must say, I missed your making light of my 'wacky' theories and predictions. But in doing so here, you concisely demonstrated one of the biggest misconceptions of the Star Wars audience: the assumption that the OT was "the main course" with all other Saga Episodes as unnecessary 'dishes' than can be largely - if not, entirely - dismissed. When you are eventually shown the sheer scope of your folly and failure, I think you'll need more than a drink. You may just feel the need to go home and rethink your life. Fortunately, Rian Johnson said he'll be at the bar if you need him. Nah, it'll be the pay-off of all the set-ups.

The Star Wars Saga tells one story. George Lucas was clear that his work was created to showcase valuable life lessons and universal truths. By 'the end' of their adventurous experience - portrayed in the Original Trilogy - what lessons and truths did this boy and girl learn that would lead the audience to trust that they would have created and led a lasting and successful Jedi Order and 'New' Republic after such institutions had been relatively recently destroyed, as shown in the Prequels?

No, one's opinion is derived from their interpretation. (For instance, considering Star Wars primarily a work of 'escapism' would be the basis of one's interpretation. Calling the story - or any particular volume of it - 'good' or 'bad' would an opinion.) Only George Lucas and select Lucasfilm employees/contractors are aware the objectively correct interpretation of this story. I'm very sure I am also, having gone on a years-long journey of enlightenment. What do you think is the story of Star Wars? What do you think I think it is? You're not the only one.

I'm not denying anyone's opinion. I'm stating that an objectively correct interpretation of the story exists, designed by George Lucas and continued by Lucasfilm.

We'll continue without you, then. @Chen G., I think you're smart enough to know that being well read doesn't necessarily yield an astute - or objectively correct - understanding of Star Wars. I liken your snobby stance to the countless Star Wars fans around the world who think their passion or high number of film viewings means they 'get it'... certainly better than 'the new Lucasfilm'. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. One either has a firm grasp of the story as George Lucas intended - and how Lucasfilm have progressed and will, eventually, complete - or one does not. (Time will tell.) My questions are open to everyone, of course.

Here we go again... In Star Wars, what things are implied to have been stronger than blood? Do you agree with this sentiment? Which Skywalkers? What war crimes? What is the 'get-out-of-jail-free-card' you speak of? Why do you say the six-film series is on-the-whole cohesive? What story did it tell? What was its purpose to have been made and shared with the world? Since Star Wars is, by definition, an allegory, what do you think were George Lucas' intended moral and political takeaways? Why don't you consider Episodes VII, VIII, and IX as part of the "series"?

The concept of destiny is profound. It dictates that, when challenged or injured, some may overcome, succeed, and/or live. Others may wither, fail, or die. But crucially, it raises the notion of preconceived purpose... that all individuals have a part to play, perhaps geared toward a grander eventuality beyond one's personal life. In stories like parables, allegories, and fairytales, this is especially true. It was Voller's destiny to be removed from his pursuit of Indy... and to reappear later in the story, only to ultimately fail: the destiny of all Indiana Jones villains. It would make sense that his train incident was portrayed so violently to draw attention to the relevance (and strength) of destiny as the primary narrative device of the overall story.

With five Indiana Jones films to go on, it should have been realized and expected by now that the villains perish near 'the end' of the stories due to their greed and lust for power. Within the context of the film's complete story, Voller had to survive his little train incident so that he would eventually travel back in time, only to die without attaining what he sought. Simply put, the events throughout this story were meant to be, making sense of the film's title 'The Dial of Destiny'.

No. It's what George Lucas had the medical droid say to Obi-Wan and Bail Organa: "Medically, she's completely healthy. For reasons we can’t explain, we are losing her... We don’t know why. She has lost the will to live." The medical droid made this statement no doubt aware that Padme's vitals were heading in the wrong direction. It should be noted that two massive reasons were presented in this scene that support a conclusion that Padme would have had a desire to live: - She had just given birth to healthy twins. - Speaking of Anakin, Padme's final words were, "There's still good in him. I know there is..." It simply doesn't make sense that someone as strong-willed and hopeful as Padme would suddenly 'lose the will to live' when she had so much to live for. Of course, there is another explanation for her inexplicable death, one that fits with the overall narrative. On a similar note: We know that Obi-Wan infamously told Luke that Darth Vader "betrayed and murdered" his father. We then found out later on that this was not exactly true... well, perhaps from a certain point of view. Star Wars is a allegorical, mythological-based fairytale. Instead of taking so many things in the story at face value, perhaps you should be paying attention to its subtleties and truly thinking. "Your eyes can deceive you. Don't trust them." Don't worry. I'll take care of it. I'm always happy to help the impaired.

No, I already said I'm dropping the topic and going back to blathering about Star Wars.

I don't think redemption means the same thing anywhere and everywhere. Regardless, you should be able to define the term if you're going to make a blanket statement like that. I'm not 'implying' you don't understand this simple story. I'm outright stating it. The fact is, there are many elements of Star Wars that have not been given a definitive explanation or resolution. Think about it. What elements of Star Wars have been given a definitive explanation or resolution? What are its themes, takeaways, and lessons? Now nine episodes in, what exactly was/is the story? The ambiguity and mystery of Star Wars make the story intriguing... and keep the fans discussing, complaining, and coming back for more. They should keep coming back... because it's not even close to being over. I know that Ben Solo didn't kill the students. The Rise of Kylo Ren shows us. No, it's only what the medical droid supposed to Obi-Wan and Bail Organa. Not everything said by the Star Wars characters can be true because different characters say conflicting things. Sometimes, a single character will make contradictory statements within the same film. What characters say, do, and think depends on their intent, knowledge, and point of view. This is Drama 101... and critical to understanding Star Wars.