Mattris

Nothing is wrong - I stated many times that the new ‘ultimate’ cover is beautiful. Possibly, what you interpret as “wrong” is simply curiosity about the design process. I would have hoped that that came across, but apparently not. Here’s hoping to clear up any misunderstanding.
 
Unless I’m looking at the wrong link, it’s clearly not the logo in the teaser trailer.
 
Screenshot:
 

 

Visuals - yes. Logo - no. It was more common to use different logos/fonts/colors in the 70s and 80s and possibly the 90s… actually the yellow Hook logo on a local/foreign market poster is a good example of this. It’s the kind of thing you rarely see today. Of course this was a time before branding and building global franchises had become the full fledged refined science that it would - but today the standard is to try to contain brand consistency. And a side step from that practice is curious to me.
 
A logo is the unique signifier for all that a brand stands for and is not lightly tampered with as it is the “flag” for the brand it represents. So changing or updating a logo is very rare, unless we’re talking about a re-branding, a modernization or a spin off, where it’s usual to tweak the original logo a bit to make it feel modern and appealing to a new audience.
 

If you are referring to a black logo with a gold edge (as per the ‘ultimate’ edition) that was used for the original marketing during the early 90s which Him Titus might have used as reference - I couldn’t find it. I humbly submit that all I did was a couple of google searches, but I couldn’t find it. If you have an image, please share it because that would be exactly the kind of “source” I was looking for.
 
But just to repeat myself: I like the design of the new set from a pure design point of view - subjectively it is more appealing than reworking a 35 year old poster (but once again, I love that poster and I love the ‘expanded’ artwork).
 
As I have pointed out I have nothing but respect for Jim Titus, which was mentioned not only in the previous post but also in many posts throughout the years. My point now was to scrutinize the new cover from a marketing/branding point of view.

Just quickly done this in MS paint, which works better for me -
 

 
 

Comparing the ‘expanded’ artwork with the ‘ultimate’ artwork is really Jim Titus vs Jim Titus.
 
I really thought the ‘expanded’ artwork was perfect, the way Jim had taken the original poster art and adjusting it to the square shape of a CD booklet was such fine work. It’s so well done, the kind of adjustment you don’t really notice unless pointed out to you (which Jim did on his Behance. BTW, Jim, if you happen to read this - thanks for sharing your work process, I revisit this page often, it is so interesting to read about the different projects and how they develop. You are the man!).
 

 
If one we’re to objectively critique the ‘expanded’ cover one might say that it’s a bit cluttered and busy to look at, but that is hardly the fault of Jim - rather that it it is an inherent quality of Drew Struzan’s original artwork (which I love BTW). However, it is a perfect representation of the original movie marketing, adopted for a CD cover.
 

 
I must confess, the ‘ultimate’ cover, I found harder to love at first sight. Jim had no easy task here - how do you improve your own work which was already perfect? And to try to top a work that absolutely breathed Hook down to the last pixel?
 
To make it blue, black and gold is an inspired but bold choice - the end result certainly looks beautiful - but, I am curious about how the discussion went to take the artistic choices in this direction? I can’t really remember the movie as being particularly blue - all though the ‘ultimate cover’ does have a “fairy tale night” quality to it which I guess kind of connects it to the movie.
 
Nor was blue a stand out color in any of the old marketing material (full disclaimer: from what I can find on google) but there seems to have been blue posters in some of the countries, so there’s that. Also the BD cover was kind of blueish?
 

 
Further, it’s an interesting choice to not use the iconic red Hook logo. It’s a bold move putting it in black on an already dark background. It looks almost like a black hole floating in space, barely perceptible but there none the less. Of course the golden outline makes it legible and elegant.
 


All in all, I’m a little bit on the fence about he ‘ultimate’ cover. On one hand, it’s gorgeous to look at, and really appeals to my sensibilities in terms of artistic choices. From this subjective point of view it is an improvement over the ‘expanded’ cover. On the other hand, perhaps it strays just a little bit too far away from the original source material.
 

 
Perhaps the decision was made to make it as distinctively different as possible from the ‘expanded’ set? That seems likely, but I can’t wait to hear the reasoning behind it.
 
On another note, it’s interesting to see that for the promo material of the ‘ultimate’ edition, the black logo wasn’t used. Nor is the traditional red logo. Instead, a hybrid logo which only highlights the ‘H’ in red is used, a logo that harkens back to the 90’s but had limited use from what I can gather.
 


I get it, on Jim’s new poster the logo color scheme is chosen so that the logo ‘pops out’ from the background and stand out to the viewer. Still, I always appreciate when art direction is such so there’s consistency between products and marketing material.
 

 
Nevertheless, this CD will stand proudly on my shelf, and it looks gorgeous. I can’t wait to flip through the booklet to see all the eye candy and attention to detail that Jim has in store for us - as he always has.

Fuck yes. Particularly with WB shutting shop it's astonishing that we were able to get JP and HP done to the standard that they were. Imagine if LLL had only done the first Potter score to start with and we were waiting for PoA (the one we all wanted most) and then WB did its thing. Disaster scenario there.
 
Although 'worry' and 'BFG' don't quite compute for me. I think there are many scores by others that need expanded treatment a lot more than that does right now.

Glad I ordered it today and not get an "out of stock" for several months until the next batch
 Yeah that's quite alarming and frankly off putting to know. Maybe The Patriot has been sitting there for approval for the last 10 years.
 
Luckily were near the end of the road for Williams releases of important scores , and Indy and SW probably won't be by specially labels, but I worry about stuff like Tintin,BFG...
 
It feels almost like a miracle we got Harry Potter and the Jurassic Park scores out of the way.  

I saw Hook in the cinema back in 1991. But at the tender age of 11, a lot of the themes (in the movie, not the soundtrack) went over my head (Tinkerbell turned regular human size? What on earth was that all about? 😂).
 
I discovered John Williams “the composer” not many years later, in 1993 I think it was (in connection with Star Wars, of course). I was certainly aware of movie themes before that but that was the year when I discovered that all my favorite themes from my favorite movies originated from the same man. And I discovered that soundtracks were a thing. From then on, I’ve been on a life long journey to discover as much as possible of the maestro’s wonderful compositions.
 
Back in those pre-internet days, it was a slow process, compared to anything today. The only way to find out if JW had scored a movie was to A) to watch the movie (also a task into itself since my family didn’t have cable and weren’t big on renting movies), or B) to flip through the scant “soundtrack” selection at the local record store and discover which composer was attached to which movie. There were maybe 10-20 soundtracks all in all to choose from (and not just JW - I mean the total selection consisted of 10-20 soundtracks)!
 
I can’t say for sure at what age I discovered that Hook was John Williams, but it was quite “early” in my fandom. 15 years old? 16? But it was in there with the first slew of John Williams soundtracks I spent my allowance on.
 
Star Wars, Superman, E.T., Jaws, Jurassic Park, Hook…
 
Listening to Hook I fell in love instantly.
 
I am looking forward to listening to the score again and rediscover all those musical moments I once fell in love with. Not to mention all those gems to be discovered in the bonus track section. The set really looks fantastic - for what it already is and was - but also in its new presentation and in all its completeness.
 
Great job done to all involved, especially since it seems to have been a long time coming. Can’t wait to hear the story behind it!

It doesn't get more ordered than this! lol
 
 
JWFan.com:
 

 


 
 
He does...with Goldsmith's "Chinatown" theme playing in the background.

I avoided Hook when it first came to theaters. I guess it looked like Spielberg was selling out for big name actors and schmaltzy production, but for whatever reason I gave it a bah humbug. 
 
Then I got the Sony Boston Pops Williams on Williams album and holy shit, what’s this magic?  Is The Banquet (The Never Feast) underrated?  The concert version surely deserves more love than it gets with that wonderful brassy opening and big crashing finish.  I was sold. (Hooked?)
 
Naturally I picked up the OST and realized what a fool I was for ever letting my JW fandom diminish due to my gut reaction to the film itself. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen the whole film. 
 
Then there was the Napster era of discovering the boots in horrible quality. That was fun. 
 
And here we are two expansions later.  I may not have been as upset as some with the last expansion, but it looks like this is going to prove again how much this score has to offer. 
 
 

Have we remarked yet on how beautiful the album art is? The album cover is perfect for a definitive edition with its near-regal color palette and uncluttered layout. (Not that I had any problem with the previous expansion's art -- I've always loved the way that cover was put together.) And from the LLL spash art for this release, it's amply clear we're going to get visual resplendence on all of the (many) pages of the booklets! (Is that splash piece available in larger resolution anywhere??)
 
There's something intangible but essential added to the enjoyment of music when you see it nestled in a beautifully designed package. It's a big part of the reason I collect CDs, and in this regard, LLL is the standard-bearer. Jim Titus, we owe you a huge and heartfelt thanks.
 
EDIT: The facebook page for this release has the splash art in larger size.

Maybe this thread should be renamed to the Indiana Jones Disenchantment Thread 

And now he's come to spread his toxicity to JWFan (where before now there was absolutely no toxicity whatsoever, it was completely friendly and everybody loved, respected and agreed with one another)!

If each release here was missing whatever in the hell we're missing from the Concord Raiders (I honestly couldn't tell you at the moment)....I doubt most of us here would be as bummed out by this, but still probably a bit bummed.
 
But there's simply way too much music missing from the other 4 scores. And it's been 15 fucking years since Concord at least put a well intentioned step forward however incomplete they were. I'm a little bit more sympathetic to a smaller label like Concord.
 
Disney has no excuses. Disney is just milking this shit.

I think part of the problem is that the Legacy collection for example, is taking a score that had an OST and doing one expanded version with all the music. Simples. At most it would take a 2 minute explanation that the first album never contains all music recorded for a film.
 
Then you get SW/Indy and you could drown in the endless swarm of releases - OSTs, reissues, partial expansions done from terrible sounding tapes. A typical executive is never going to understand what it is that's still wrong. Ask for a 'proper' expansion of SW and they'll pick up those 2-CD reissues and say... isn't that what you're asking for?
 
Can't be bothered to read through the bin fire of whatever argument is going on above  (it's too expensive for what it is... not sure what the contention is)

Because unless those staff people have a particular concern for film music, they're probably mostly unaware of us. On a business scale, we don't matter - when a new limited release comes out, fewer people often buy it in 6 months than visit any given concert hall every day (and concert hall's aren't exactly swimming in money). The little money we are worth to them (compared to their other assets) is probably not worth going out of their way to cater to us.
 
 
They're mainly in it for the music, and I'm 99.9% sure the people responsible at Disney aren't. The Labels frequently have releases that cost more than they yield (and they compensate with other releases that sell better).
 
 
Only if the alternative is not doing anything. But Disney is a huge company, and unless they're seriously overstaffed compared to other companies, their departments likely have more on their plates than they can handle at any given time. It's not a decision between selling soundtrack A as is, or selling soundtrack A in an expanded version, or not selling soundtrack A at all. It's a decision between selling soundtrack A as is (relatively cheap and time effective), selling soundtrack A in an expanded version (much more expensive, and much, much more time-consuming, requiring lots of coordination with external advisors if they actually want to do it properly), or selling a totally unrelated item B, which likely has a much greater mass appeal.
 
I don't believe these releases are bad business decisions. They're just bad artistic decisions. And I like to believe that deals could be struck with the speciality labels that would be good artistic decisions and still sensible business decisions, but the main issue is that the business people don't care, so why would they bother (if they even stop to think about it). (In fairness, there's tons of other concerns that warrant consideration that I, or any other of us, tend to ignore on a daily basis)

Nope, just not interested in rehashing the same old argument every time, with someone who is just a bit offensive.

It's gotten a little heated in here, but there's valid arguments on both sides. One of those "agree to disagree" situations.
 
I'm not losing hope though guys. Mike Matessino is our guy in the biz who knows what we want, and I have to believe he's slowly chipping away at trying to realize a new comprehensive Indy (and Star Wars) release, but we're not done waiting...

Is it though? Is it? Of course nobody's forced to buy anything, and few on this forum will, because it is an abusive price tag that's completely disconnected from the current market value of physical media. The Harry Potter 7-cd set is $105, and that's a labor of love from a specialty label, beautifully restored and packaged with detailed liner notes. $150 (+tax +shipping) for a 5-cd reissue of 15-year-old masterings is an insult. The choice is not with the buyer anymore when products are artificially priced way above value, and several hundred percent above inflation rates. It's offensive to the buyer who then has little choice but to pass. I certainly do not feel like I have a choice. I prefer to buy the John Mauceri 16-cd box that's coming out tomorrow for cheaper than that. Because I do not feel like Decca, unlike Disney, is laughing at me. 

I still believe people here tend to overestimate the intent behind these releases.
 
The people in charge likely know nothing about film music. They probably never thought about how a film contains more music than the accompanying soundtrack album. Maybe they've heard of expanded releases, in which case they might think of the additional tracks as bonus tracks (like on a re-release of a pop/rock album with bonus tracks). If they even stop to consider that there might be even more music that hasn't yet been released, I doubt they conclude that there's a sizeable (and sadly *that's* debatable) community that is desperately waiting for that music to be released.
 
In short, they probably know and care about as much about film music as I do about cars or football, or even less.
 
"Complete" in that context makes sense - and in some others. The set is complete insofar as it contains every soundtrack from the series. No, it doesn't contain every second of music from the series - see above. "Complete" is a marketing term - c.f. the "complete recordings" of the LOTR scores, which certainly aren't the complete *recordings* (those would be hours and hours more, and most of them would be uninteresting). They're not calling them "expanded" - and even that could be argued for, because the first three *are* expanded compared to the OST albums.
 
This release is redundant. It's horribly overpriced. I don't believe it's a scam.
 
Ultimately, the problem is that these releases are handled by business people instead of artists/fans.

Forcing myself to think positively, perhaps Disney want to milk the OST-cow one more time so they can then milk the expanded-editions cow to maximize revenue.

Sheesh, i would even have a heartbeat hesitation buying an expanded indy set from THE labels for 150€. (but i would buy it )
 
This price for the OSTs is just crazy.

I think there's a market for this but it's obviously not us. I'm thinking more casual soundtrack/Indy fans who perhaps just buy the occasional soundtrack and for whom this might be a gift. It's horrendously priced of course but Concord's set came out 15 years ago and new Indy/music fans pop up all the time.
 
The only hope that we can perhaps glean is if MM by some miracle persuaded Disney to invest in proper expansions and they've done this set in-house as a mass market equivalent.
 
One further point - yes Bouzereau made some amateurish mistakes with pitch, and of course there's quite a bit of missing music - both of which were regrettable and need to be fixed in a future edition. But here's the thing - almost no one outside of our community notices or cares (basically, the average, non-geeky consumer). I've personally never really noticed the pitch problems because I haven't seen any of the films in years and don't do endless comparisons (I'm not on some high horse - I compare some other films and score presentations to death, just not these ones).
 
I was talking about the two editions of the FotR score to an acquaintance a few years ago (they said their other half wanted the soundtrack for Christmas) and they just about stayed with me when I was explaining about 'a CD of highlights' vs 'everything recorded for the film'. Had I started going on about a theoretical scenario where the master tapes were transferred badly and that some tracks were at a slightly wrong pitch.... straight over their head.

Nothing's gonna get past this guy.