Marcus

I haven't seen this, but I wonder how drastically 'adult' it is for so many members here to deem it more or less inappropriate for children? I've always thought that we need more dark themes and subject matter in entertainment for children, and that Disney especially tends to underestimate their young audiences... Now, there are certain things, or certain way of presenting various issues, that children should be sheltered from, but scary sequences are fun! Looh at Roald Dahl's universe! And even Oscar Wilde's fairytales, not to mention Brothers Grimm!

Wonderful analysis of "The Asteroid Field" and "Buckbeaks Flight", pi, pixie twinkle and gkgyver! I have nothing to add, except that I utterly and completely concur! And your observations prove that we can all share a general connotational understanding of audio-visual alignment, which means that music's extra-musical language is knowable, to some extent. Bravo, all of you! I did a very thourough analysis of "Buckbeak's Flight" a while back, describing its extra-musical or connotational qualities in great detail, and I'll try to post it later. Best to all of you, Marcus

Why, thank you very much, pixie twinkle!

(12,13)I make a living writing music for professional musicians, ensembles, orchestras and institutions (such as festivals, etc.), and I'm also part of the adjunct company of TACT, a New York-based theater group (for New Yorkers: Our stage is the Florence Gould Theater, 59th street between Park and Madison), and I occasionally write for television and film in Norway. (2,3,6,7,8,9,11,14,15,16,17,18))I can read anything, and my ears usually afford me the ability to transcribe whatever I wish to.(10) I used to be a decent tenor/baritone, and I had singing lessons in my younger days.(1) Although I rarely perform in public these days, I had a career of sorts as a guitarist when I was in my teens. I play piano, but I'm not even remotely good. I am also an atrocious conductor. (19) Music is my livelyhood, my passion and my favourite pastime. (20) I did perform in educational/ school related bands years ago. And I have written some music for more pedagogical purposes.

Yes, I think I provided a short review of Williams' score for "Munich".

I do agree to a certain extent that there are things concerning audiovisual alignment and effect that have to do with pure instinct, but as these instincts are part of our nature and psyche, we can elect be cognizant of such effects, and we can study them and try to understand our own reactions to them. It boils down to whether or not we believe music is a language that has certain universal codes (not only cultural). I personally feel strongly that music has connotational specificity and universality at a primal level, and I think there are observations to be made on "truthfulness" in how music relates to drama, and to visuals and psychology, or rather, how music informs and is informed by reality. Generally, we must look for simple phenomena and qualities, such as "hard","soft","high","low","big","small"... Williams is VERY conscious (and outspokenly so) of this in constructing his themes and designing his textures. Some pertinent questions: - What is it about ESB's "The Asteroid Field" that captures the feel and texture of an asteroid field? - What is it about PoA's "Buckbeak's Flight" that captures flight, initial fear, and soaring excitement? - What is it about MoaG's "Becoming a Geisha" that gives us a specific image of the world of the geisha, and not simply a sense of "orientalism"? I have some observations and possible answers to these questions, but I would like to hear from others first.

gkgyver, I'm so sorry, I completely forgot about your earlier post... I'm glad you've been able to decipher the terminology, though. 8O

Thank you Eric! Also: Williams will sometimes voice maj7th chords such as these by moving the seventh degree down an octave, so in the key of C, you'd have B-E-G-C, thus avoiding the issue of clashing altogether. Take care, Eric, and everyone! Marcus

Morlock, what do you mean by 'scientifically'? Goldsmith wasn't more sophisticated in terms of compositional craft and technique, if that is what you are referring to. Other than that, though, I agree with your assessment!

John Williams, of course, and by a small infinity. Followed, in no particular order, by: Herrmann, Goldsmith, Waxman, Rozsa, Korngold, North, Steiner, Tiomkin, Corigliano (for the few scores he has offered)...

Okay, I feel the need to clarify something: Jerry Goldsmith was great, one of the greatest, not because of his willingness to experiment, not because he would vehemently argue for his points of view over a director's, not because he wrote more dissonant music than other film composers early in his career... Jerry Goldsmith was great simply because he was a first rate composer, imbued with epic dramatic talents and a profound understanding of the relation of music, drama and life. Neo-romanticism (which is a misnomer when it comes to Williams' music, simply because he never had to "pick up the pieces" of a tradition, but rather grew out of tradition and belongs to an unbroken lineage, through people such as Castelnuovo-Tedesco, and more peripherally, via Korngold, Waxman, Rosza and Herrmann) is not less "modern" or less valid than more modernist trends and techniques. Goldsmith wasn't more sophisticated than Williams. On the contrary, Williams' tonal writing is vastly more complex than Goldsmith's, and Williams probably has a deeper knowledge of more abstract schools of musical thought than Goldsmith. Yet he has chosen a path that to me shows most profoundly the validity and impact and present potential in embracing tonality. Much more so than Nicholas Maw, John Adams, etc. But--- Jerry Goldsmith remains one of the most uniquely gifted composers ever to grace Hollywood, simply because he was a master at what he did, and a master with a tremendous presence and command artistically, dramatically, aesthetically... There are no composers out there today that can even begin to compare (other than Williams, who I consider the greatest composer ever to write for film) with Goldsmith in a qualitative way. He was simply too deep, too brilliant...Williams and Goldsmith belong to a generation and a tradition of musicians that is sadly mostly missing from our world today. We would be very wise to study their craft, their legacy, as thoroughly as our faculties allow us. We will be better for it. Music will be better for it. Oh, and parenthetically; "The Rake's Progress" is one of Stravinsky's best dramatic works, and a masterpiece. Best, Marcus

This is a promising thread, and I hope it'll survive longer than its predecessors... Adding to Eric's remarks on non-diatonic maj7th chords, I would say that Williams also has a whole host of "cadential sonorities",-usually mixed quartal, triadic and secundal structures, and all functioning as "generalized" dominants. In the key of C, some of these could be (spelled from bottom to top) : Db-Gb-Ab-C (or Gbsus#11, if you will),D-Eb-Ab-Cb (Abminaddb5), Bb-Eb-Ab-Cb-D (variation of the previous). Williams tends to stack quartal structures on triadic fundaments: Eb-Ab-Cb-E-A-D-G (just one example of Williams' expanded tonal palette). I will argue that Williams' tonal universe is generally chromatic, not diatonic or modal, meaning I don't think he thinks in terms of establishing a key with any kind of permanence. His diatonic writing is usually pan-diatonic. Also, observe the general absence of dominants!! In a major context, Williams' pivotal harmony (substituting a traditional dominant) is more frequently a combination of I,IV and V without thirds (usually), or suspended chords, if you like. In the key of C, such sonorities could be C-D-G(-B), C-F-G,C-D-F-G,C-F-G-B. Again, note the use of mixed structures!

Indeed it would, but I don't think we need to worry. He has expressed very clearly that he has no intention of retiring, and he seems to be in good health, so I think we have every reason to expect more music from maestro Williams in the not so distant future.

Good points, Eric and Goodmusician! Williams' evocative powers do stem from a great understanding of music's relation to reality, or rather, our perception of art, which no matter how abstract, will involve a process of association. And at its deepest, most basic level, it goes far beyond cutural connotations. If we take "Star Wars", I think perhaps the most archaic image that is conjured up by the music, is that of SPACE itself: The first sound we hear, is a gigantic Bb major chord, with Bb's stated throughout the entire range (space) of the orchestra. The addition of "twinkling" from triangle and tremolo violins, gives a specificity to the image: We have the stars of OUTER SPACE to go with our original connotation. Now, there's more to Williams' imagery than mere (extra-)geography. Once the thematic material's presented, we're being told clearly that we are watching something grand,something epic, something heroic: The broad intervals of Luke's theme, the orchestration, the kinetic thrust and propulsion of the orchestra,the soaring lyricism of the secondary phrase of the theme; These are ( western) musical icons of adventure: We have the hero's quest, the excitement (and possible danger) of the journey ahead, and even a strong presence of masculinity (main fanfare) and femininity (second half of theme). Williams has the happy habit of always being very specific and very broadly universal at the same time in his musical depictions. A theme of his can be said to truly embody both the qualities of a single character and the broader narrative. Luke's theme is both a great musical incarnation of the character's noble disposition and struggle ahead, and the optimism of the entire saga. Darth Vader's theme is simultaneously a marvellous martial depiction of a sinister conqueror empire, and the tragic fall of one man. Perhaps 'magic' should suffice...

With The Bible and Shakespeare's complete ouvre, this sounds like a quite nice vacation, actually...

The similarity is due to the progression of minor one to minor flat six (ex. Cm-Abm). It is a device typically found in a good deal of Williams' darker themes.

Corigliano's "Altered States", followed by "Citizen Kane" and "Captain Blood". Corigliano is all the more impressive because this was his first truly substantial dramatic effort, whereas Korngold and Herrmann had honed their skills in opera and radio respectively.

"The Sixth Sense" is James Newton Howard's best score by far, in my opinion. Very understated and delicate, and occasionally frightening, and a perfect accompaniment to a remarkable film (and a stunning first effort for director Shyamalan).

It is a wonderfully witty, charming and tuneful score, and extremely interesting as a textural departure, much like "Missouri Breaks"; it is a 'one-of-a-kind' offering.

Miguel, I think there are clips from this concert at YouTube...

Okay, this is just weird trivia, but I had to share this information with someone, and I thought this would be a good forum: I just found out that my mother met Stanley Myers at a pop music festival in Poland in the early 70's, and apparently he was extremely taken with her, and, despite his shyness (my mother remembers him as a very quiet and 'nerdy'), kept trying to beguile her... Theoretically, Stanley Myers COULD have been my father 8O ...

Scottish or English, probably, although I would've loved to claim him as a fellow Norwegian! "William" is not a Norwegian or Scandinavian name, though...A Danish or Norwegian version would be "Wilhelmsen" or (less likely) "Wilhelmson".

If you find one, let me know! It's a gorgeous piece, though. I read it through with a good friend of mine who is a fantastic horn player, and it is absolutely breathtaking (pun intended). It is also getting to be quite popular in the horn community, and I predict it will secure a place for itself in the standard concerto repertoire, very much like the tuba concerto has done, and the bassoon concerto is beginning to. I have heard there are a couple of bootleg recordings available, but so far, I've been unable to find them. Best, Marcus

I stand corrected! Now, when did James Thatcher "take over" as principal? I thought he was on at least most of the Williams recordings from the mid-to-late 80's and onwards?

I am with you! (In general, especially if we are limiting are options to Hollywood films). There's been a great decline in Hollywood, and fewer good films are being made. There are many, and complex, reasons for this, but one thing Steven Spielberg has pointed out, is the general lack of understanding of the art of storytelling. I would add a general lack of understanding of dramatic craft. Used to be, directors came to cinema with experience from the theater, whereas now there's a tendency towards visual and dramatic "ADD". Films are shot and edited as if they were music videos or even videogames, and Hollywood still hasn't mastered the use of CGI, it's still learning the ropes of it...I hope we'll see more economy in the use of effects, thus rendering them "effective" again.