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I've been listening to the score for the last 2 days. Yes, its not quite original, but I believe Horner stirs the pot enough to let it pass in my book. The moments of sweeping grandeur and haunting vocals are just too good for me to let the lack of originality in some parts affect my enjoyment of it. And really, to pick on the danger motif at this point is utterly pointless, its not that bad and people should not be surprised to hear it now (after its been heard in essentially nearly every Horner score in the last decade!). Its a great four star score for me and one of my favourites of last year. I really like how he uses the orchestra to evocate the desert locale. I blabber about this all in my review: http://musicmusekk.wordpress.com/2012/02/03/black-gold-james-horner/ Its a good score Incanus, I think you'll have to let go of some of those unoriginal parts to truly enjoy..I mean the Hornerisms that appear here have appeared in so many of his scores in the last decade (including the 5 star ones). And I certainly believe this score is more original than the Karate Kid or Avatar (most certainly this one...regardless of how enjoyable it is). Black Gold really makes me remember why I love Horner and ethnic dramas. The man is great with that genre..

-Oooh, can I be Supreme Archbishop? - Ahem, apologies Brother Blumenkohl...I got a little ahead of myself. I thought I'd establish the Order of Prayer in the Church of Our Dear Lord and Saviour, John Williams. DIRECTIONS: Down Sunset Blvd, turn right at the sight of the Church of Scientology and into the alleyway where you'll see a waste container with an abnormally large sized model of our beloved guardian and friend, E.T (with his magic bike!). Behind this obstacle lies a secret compartment upon which you are obligated to show the 3 Holy Trinkets of Wisdom (your whip, your lightsaber and your Superman tights). Knowledge of Williams' most prominent cymbal technique will be required to get it in. 5:00 AM - Early in the morning, led by Supreme Priestmaster King Mark, the forever virgin monks hum the great five note motif of Archangel Spielberg's vision of CE3K (fun fact: it was first hummed by a bunch of homeless Indians found by our beloved Spielberg). 6:30 AM - Worshippers are to bow down to the East as the sun rises and sing Hymn 2 (can be found above). 9:00-11:00 AM - Upon the conclusion of a small meager meal, the Supreme Bishop takes upon the Holy Baton of our Lord and Saviour and conducts his most obnoxious enlightening marches (1941 is quite a favourite at this time of the day) 12:00-1:00 PM - Prime Rabbi and Williams Witness' go door to door performing the folksy material of Fiddler on the Roof (for the heretics) and the melodies of Schindler's List or anything attractively ethnic to reap the poor of what little they have to benefit the Church and our saviour (yay, food!) 2:00 - 4:00 PM - The Supreme Missionary spreads the word of the Great Tunesmith and burns the occasional heretic with Reznor's noise to display the power of our Lord and his Holy Buttocks! 4:00 - 5:00 PM - The Grand Master warns the people of Zimmer's long arm and shadow and attempts to absolve the sins of the damned and bring them to the light (usually to no avail). 6:00 - 8:00 PM - Supreme Bishop and his 3 underlings, Supreme Priestmaster King Mark, the Supreme Archbishop and the Supreme Missionary ramble on about the sorrows of our dark world to their disciples. Like old grumpy wise men, they warn the world of the future of our belief and the darkness that surrounds our faith. They also discuss/argue/bicker/whine about the legendary lost Grails such as the CoS Recording Sessions, or the Complete Release of Hook or the ever elusive adequate release of the Star Wars Prequels... MIDNIGHT - The members of the Church gather in congression to read out Revelations while operatically singing the Ark theme in an apocalypto fashion (including the upper female register). Life in the Church of Our Dear Lord and Saviour, John Williams is quite dramatic as conspiracy is always afoot (with the recent uprising Giacchino and his misled followers who dare believe he can dethrone our Lord as a very good example). I'll see you all, my brothers, at 5 AM tomorrow morning... G-A-F-F-C The above statements are all subject to change and deletion upon the request of the superiors of the Church of Our Dear Lord and Saviour John Williams, in which case, I could likely be terminated....

Brother Blumenkohl, thy dedication to the great Church begs the question, will thou do thine duty and establish the necessary, discriminative hierarchal titles of the members of this fine fellowship?

I don't understand why people keep hailing Giacchino as such. How many scores of his have you listened to? A lot. I really like Giacchino a lot (although his recent scores have been disappointing) but he sure as hell is not the next Williams. The only major hole I have to fill in my Giacchino collection are his LOST scores (probably something I should fix very soon). His Medal of Honor scores are amongst my personal favourites, but he hasn't really lived up to that greatness since then. I am very much looking forward to John Carter though.

I don't understand why people keep hailing Giacchino as such. Personally, I don't think Williams will have an heir. After all the great A-list composers are gone (Horner, Elfman, Williams, etc.), the new generation will be filled with talented composers but none of them reaching the level of dominance in the industry as Williams did (or the other A-list composers of our time).

It's not a great love theme. Define great...

Wow, no one else mentioned Across the Stars?! But great love themes have been pointed out here, I will chime in my own list soon...

Brother Blumenkohl, thy work for our cause is most noble. Praise to the Great Tunesmith and his ever Holy Buttocks! And it did not occur to me that the prophecy is nigh. With the coming Crichton, could it be that the 6th Apostle shall rise from the ashes of devlisih heretic that is Ludovic Bource and his demonic work for The Artist? And it seems that Brother Blumenkohl has omitted several important hymns that are key for the salvation of all those who dream of someday approaching the tunesmth's Holy Buttocks. Let me share with you my dear brothers: HYMN 2 - Exsultate justi Instructions: - Recommended to be sung during sunrise while bowing to the East and playing the tunes of Archangel Spielberg's 17th vision. HYMN 3 - Double Trouble Instruction: - Although the Lord never wrought these words himself and took it from an old scribe by the name of Shakespeare, it is said that before rites are performed, it is recommended that this hymn is sung to receive Lord Williams' blessings and prevent the coming of the warts of hogs. CHANT OF THE HOLY BUTTOCKS: Spoken from the lips of the Lord himself, the words in the Common Tongue can be interpreted as "Faster, Higher Stronger". This little chant will chase away ill omens and shed some light even in the darkest of places in the world. As for modern songs for these "hipsters". I recommend "Somewhere in My Memory". A great carol for John-mas (which is fast approaching this week!). Let us rejoice!

Typically JWFan. If by that you mean to point out how it's diverse, rich, and stimulating, I completely agree. I can't for the life of me fathom why anyone would want waste time at a place where everyone holds the same exact set of tastes, holds the same opinion on everything and then pat each other on the ass about it. I think that pretty much sums up the Hans Zimmer fansite for ya You mean we don't have that yet?! So the altar I've been praying to daily was never founded upon an accepted faith? Thats a shame...well its better late than ever

I'm with ya! When people ask me what I think is the "best" film of all time, I usually respond with SCHINDLER. It's just a rare instance of pure perfection, IMO. And that extends to the music as well. It's not often that I play the soundtrack, but that's because I have to be so emotionally prepared for it.....and it's actually less to do with the Holocaust associations (I tend to separate myself from the movie when I listen to soundtrack), and more to do with the harrowing, but beautiful quality of the music itself. Thank you Thor, well said! The score for Schindler's List (along with the film) is that rare moment of "pure perfection". God knows, it might have been a fluke (which I seriously doubt), but Williams somehow miraculously struck that emotional core which clearly had a universal impact (as it later defined the genre). No film score has ever moved me emotionally as Schindler's List did and even Williams' attempts at striking that sound again (in portions of Munich) never reaches the same impact. This is why no re-recording of Schindler's List will ever live up to the original. And the music is the perfect match for the film. I don't think the music is ever over done with even its most robust moments perfectly matching the film. I repeat, aesthetically it is a very 'safe' score, an OSCAR score with easily digestible neo-romantic stylings and a violin added on top for ye olde jewish flavour. I found it much too Delerue-y for its subject back in 1993 and cannot divorce it from the film it was made for and find the tea-room sadness of it a bit too on the nose. But i will not try to f..k you over with this, you love it as you should. But the thing is, what exactly would have been appropriate for you? The film would certainly not have worked if you slapped something like Threnody to the Victims of Hiroshima on to the picture. That kind of film demanded Williams score and I don't think anyone (including the maestro) could have done a better job. To me, its not just enjoyable music, its actually something far more than that (at least to me). But hey, different strokes for different folks I guess He-he. You have no idea how hard I was trying to stay away from that word so that you wouldn't blow a gasket over

Wow John, well said. I hadn't thougt of it that way. I do admit I seem yo like Indy 4 more than you but you cant deny War Horse and atintinvare both "fresher" and display much more originality than Indy 4 score. I really feel like JW will continue to come upvwith memorable and relevant music until the day he dies Agreed. Williams is gifted with the talent to be able to come up with strong memorable music consistently unlike any other composer. I don't even know how to explain it but with nearly ever score Williams delivers a piece of memorable and relevant music (regardless whether you like it or not). How he does it, I will never know!

War of the Worlds is dense stuff that I can appreciate but not enjoy. Schindler's List is leagues ahead of it, and I find it a stimulating score of great depth; not just a score for depressed people with low self-esteem.

OK fine. Let's say Schindler's List is a score that is supposed to touch on the sensitive humanity, tear-jerking, sad side of the holocaust. Even if the point of the film and score was to be human, tear-jerker, and sad, John Williams still did not deliver. Williams's failure to integrate the score with contrasting elements/structure made the "humanity" and "tear-jerking" and "sad" qualities of the score ordinary/common/everyday instead of special and meaningful. Because they were present wall-to-wall scene-to-scene track-to-track. The end result is something stagnant rather than alive and in motion. So what we end up with is something cheesy and dull. I disagree. There are many varying qualities in Schindler's List. Yes there is a lot of tear jerking moments in the score and while they define the film, the score is definitely not just that. What about the stark workman like music for the Jewish? Listen to Schindler's Workforce and Jewish Town. Or the single moment where there is the slightest hint of heroism in Making the List? Or to go on further, the hauntingly disturbing material in Auschwitz Birkeneau? Williams infuses as much contrasting elements as he could with this film, or so I see it.

Why do you guys assume something atonal like Penderecki would have been right for the film? Thats not what the film was going for, nor is it what the film is about. Auschwitz Birkenau is a haunting cue, but the key to Schindler's List is the heart-breaking beauty and its simplicity. It was perfect for the film and in a way that's hard to explain is VERY emotionally engaging. Williams cracked onto to the perfect set of harmonic progressions and orchestrations that really get to you. It compliments the film in such a way that will affect the audience. Schindler's List isn't a film thats supposed be some theoretical, over-critical statement about the Holocaust. While it has its fair share of brutality and horror, its supposed to make us remember the Holocaust for what it was. And in that sense, no composer could have done a better job. I don't think Williams could ever have the kind of mastery over the audience's emotions as shown in Schindler's List. A powerful piece of work.

Wow, I did not know I was in the minority here with my respect for Schindler's List. But I guess I would be the only one who would rate it as my favourite Williams score. I honestly think no other film composer has swept me off emotionally as JW did SL and I don't think the maestro himself can master that level of emotional gravity.

I sure as hell hope thats some of your "intellectual" humour Yes, the fact that Goldsmith didn't take home the Oscar for Star Trek is outrageous. But that doesn't change the fact that A Little Romance is a good score and that Delerue is a great composer. "Always forgive your enemies - nothing annoys them so much" Oscar Wilde was one smart man

I'll come back to this thread with a long list of great love themes later. But in the meantime, let me just put down one really obvious choice! Star Wars II Attack of the Clones: John Williams: ACROSS THE STARS! One of my favourite love themes of all time...really surprised that this wasn't the first one mentioned

QB VII would seem like the first choice to pick, but it still has some of that Goldsmith "majesty" to it. A great score, but not something that would go along with the subtlety of SL.

Masada is quite emotionally potent in its prime, but it lacks the subtlety of Schindler's List and I think that's the criteria here. I quite like parts of it. What i don't like is how many people feel the irresistible urge to equate personal affection to universal greatness. We had that discussion before and it's always damn SCHINDLER that has the burden of bearing the masterpiece medal. It's just not that good just because it's somber and minor-laden (and for an IMPORTANT movie). ANGELA'S ASHES, for instance, isn't an important (or very good) movie. If it were, people would be much more considerate towards that music. I don't know if its that. I think you've already slapped me silly with your "Schindler's List is not art" argument. But frankly, I find it to be Williams' most powerful score. Yes, in terms of composition its simply, but the emotional nuances of the orchestration and the performance (I don't think anyone, including Williams can ever perform the score as it was recorded) make it an extraordinarily powerful score. Its my favourite of the maestro's. Angela's Ashes is a score I love too but it doesn't come close to SL's emotional gravity. Munich comes close in parts, but never does reach that height. But then again, this is all just my opinion

Uhmmm...are you referring to the 3 min of source material in a 65 min. album? I don't Goldsmith has ever scored something to the degree of subtlety and effectiveness of Schindler's List (his Holocaust like QB VII aren't subtle really) but I guess it would be Russia House for me. To this day, I believe Schindler's List is Williams' greatest achievement and my 2nd most favourite score of all time.

Indeed, you guys really nailed the sax solo parts with the bassoon. I just thought that the contrabassoon was sometimes too heavy at parts, but other than that, bassoons really seem like a perfect match!

Not fond of Delerue?! Who hurt you Stefan?...

I can't handle Rosenman with most of his works being uninteresting for me. His Star Trek score was too silly for me to really enjoy. Although I'm no fan of the films (haven't watched a single one of them) so I'm not sure how it works in film. I found his score for LOTR laughable in parts. I'm just not a fan of his work.

I thought all of Goldsmith's entries were great but felt that Nemesis was the weakest. I'd say its better than Giacchino's entry, but I do like Giacchino's score. Only above Rosenmans "effort". Most definitely.

And every single one of those scores are great? Every single one of the SW scores are indeed great. Most of the Goldsmith entries were good except for Nemisis