-
Posts
3,181 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
7
Posts posted by TheUlyssesian
-
-
The first phrase of the melody starting at 6:14 is a direct lift from Melanie's Theme from Max Steiner's Gone With The Wind.
Have a listen ->
At 11:19.
-
I find this melodic phrase to be one of the loveliest Horner has ever written. I think deep and long melodies sound the most "sweeping".
The one here at 2:24 to 2:42 just before the main theme clicks in at 2:42 ->
I believe this phrase is reprised only once again in the score and that too during the end titles.
Here it is at 2:16 to 2:31 again followed by the main theme. ->
And yet, in the famous track Theme from Braveheart, this phrase, heard (by my estimation) just twice in the whole score recieves an epic rendition.
Here it is at 1:06 to 1:20 once again followed by the main theme. ->
Is it supposed to be a part of the main theme or is it supposed to be a variation. And why isn't it played more often in the score?
And ain't it lovely?
-
This site loves to hate on Clemmenson, but I've never really understood it. Sure, he rates some things differently than I would (not a Masters of the Universe fan, apparently) and the "academia" put-on can come off condescending, but his reviews are an interesting read and he makes good points.
James Southall's still the best film music reviewer out there. I love his style!
Southall? I find his reviews so... cursory, like he listened to it in the background while doing some important work and hastily typed something up. He doesn't seem to engage with the scores he is revieiwng, they almost seem like fan reviews in a third grade school mag.
Say what about Clemmenson but he atleast seems very knowledgable and his reviews demonstrate considerable insight and seem like an informed eclectic opinion. He can be a bit pedantic but that is hardly to be avoided when you have reviewed film scores for so long. He acknowledges his biases and a bias only lends you more personality rather than coming across as a colorless android.
I find his reviews very good. Just wished he reviewed older titles as well.
-
Hugo's budget was 175 Million Dollars and earned just 179 Million worldwide. Atleast 80-100 million was spent on marketing. Any film with that huge of a budget is gonna have a big marketing push to get the budget back. And with the fact that only half of the theater gross goes to the makers, Hugo is most definitely a disaster.But in all this hullabaloo about John Carter, people forget that even Scorsese's Hugo was a massive disaster and lost a ton of money.
HUGO roughly earned his budget back and surely never was expected to be a blockbuster like JOHN CARTER, hence it didn't ride on a big marketing budget.
There are articles online where the producer (it was independently financed outside the studio system) himself claims that he has lost a huge amount of money on the film. But Hugo is very critically acclaimed so people skip over this fact.
Review by Christian Clemmensen finally up at filmtracks.com. Its a positive review with 4 stars. But Clemmensen does not seem to have heard the score properly cause he's able to clearly delineate only 2 themes, whereas I was able to identify many more.
John Carter: (Michael Giacchino) It only took one hundred years for Edgar Rice Burroughs' 1912 science fiction novels to be adapted to the big screen, but not due a lack of trying. The concept was originally set to become the first feature-length animated movie in American history in the mid-1930's, though MGM pulled the plug after years of production work because the concept was deemed to outlandish for audiences at the time. Through the subsequent decades, the concept languished in limbo due to perpetual assessments that special effects technology had not matured enough to do justice to the story. When Disney finally went ahead with John Carter in the 2010's, the studio envisioned a trilogy of adventures, the first establishing how the titular Earthling came to become a hero on Mars. The former American Confederate Cavalry solider is transported accidentally to Mars in 1868 and finds himself in the midst of a civil war between various races of creatures that range from normal humanoids to the tall, nasty-looking green aliens more commonly associated with the planet. A mixture of beasts from Middle-Earth and flight technology from the future collide in this conflict, and Carter fortunately discovers that due to Mars' lesser gravity and his own bone density, he has movement and fighting capabilities beyond those of the native inhabitants. There is, of course, a princess involved, as well as massive battles for control of the planet and some misdirection back on Earth to set up a cinematic sequel. Disney, however, did not impress critics and American audiences upon the debut of John Carter, the highly mixed reviews (largely praising the look but lambasting the script) translating into surprisingly poor domestic box office numbers. While the international earnings for the movie were substantially better (seemingly bringing overall grosses nearly even with the $250 million budget), Disney publicly declared the film a massive loss after all considerations. Oblivious to all of this turmoil was composer Michael Giacchino, who was instructed by director Andrew Stanton to write a hugely orchestral space opera score from the height of the 1970's and 1980's for the concept. Giacchino had affirmed his feature career scoring Pixar movies in the 2000's, but for Disney and John Carter, he impressively supplies music of a different level of bravado and scale in the fantasy genre. It's the kind of throwback assignment that typically makes composers giddy, especially with the resources available to Giacchino for this project.For enthusiasts of John Williams' redefinition of fantasy and adventure music during the height of his career, Giacchino's approach to John Carter will be a pleasure to hear. Few composers were allowed to dominate films with shamelessly melodic and massively orchestral music in the 2000's, and such emotional sentimentality was clearly the intent here. It helps that Giacchino was once considered a possible clone of Williams back in the days of his "Medal of Honor" video game scores; while he largely abandoned that emulation after his transition to television and cinema, the composer finally returns to resurrect some of that Indiana Jones character once again for this context. To lesser degrees, you also encounter influences from Maurice Jarre (who unintentionally seems to have defined the sound of sweeping desert vistas on any planet) and James Horner (whose common use of "hanging," anticipatory bass notes resolving a few beats late is utilized several times in this work). The scope of the score is broad but conventional, using orchestra and choir in standard methodology for most of the score's duration. Exotic solo vocals and spicy percussive flavoring are afforded to the civilizations of Mars, offering some of the most intriguing moments of music in the film. The orchestra is the centerpiece, however, and Giacchino wastes little time exercising to define the score's main themes with grandeur. Two themes dominate the work, the first for the primary character (and the general adventure mode) and the second for Princess Dejah and their relationship. These ideas are woven into nearly every corner of the score, each suggested when not obviously called for and performed by conflicted sets of instrumentation to denote conflict and/or conquest. The main theme is a rollicking affair introduced in full near the outset of "Get Carter," stated with heroic brass layers and prefaced by the Williams-typical pulsating bass string rhythms. The progressions of this idea are vaguely reminiscent of Lawrence of Arabia, soliciting the aforementioned Jarre connections. Its tempo resides closer to the swashbuckler domain, however, easily applying the melody to whipping and roaring action sequences later in the film. Giacchino cleverly adapts the theme to the instrumentation of Mars with increasing saturation as the score progresses, pitting it in sonic battle with the percussion of the warring species and eventually stating it fully in the choral spirit of the planet's softer tones in "Thernabout." The translation of the theme into a full-blooded waltz for the comedic "Gravity of the Situation" is a surprising highlight and a great exhibit of the composer's sense of humor.
The love theme in John Carter will be blindingly obvious to Giacchino collectors in each of its performances because of its adherence to progressions and instrumentation nearly identical to a pivotal theme from the "Lost" television series. Teased out in "Thark Side of Barsoom," this theme flourishes with melodrama in "A Change of Heart" and poignantly punctuates the end of "Not Quite Finished." It joins the main theme in anchoring the meaty second half of "John Carter of Mars." Giacchino's secondary melodies for the various species and interests on Mars are not stated as clearly for suite purposes, but his integration of these representations is equally impressive. The themes, which range from hopeful three-note phrases to domineering five-note fanfares, cover the spectrum of the planet's peoples and their conflicting motives. The quasi-religious end is covered in the flowing theme of "The Blue Light Special" (repeated in the mid-section of "John Carter of Mars") while the militaristic alternative is handled with brass figures of dread over Giacchino's usual infusion of creative percussion sounds, in this case emphasizing metallic clicking and clanging. The composer keeps the score fresh by constantly rotating between these themes, and it always helps to have a core of robust action cues of Williams-like style. The pair of "The Prize is Barsoom" and "The Fight for Helium" are a highly engaging and enjoyable pinnacle to the action featuring the main theme, the latter even referring back to the waltz sequence for a moment. Few moments of outright dissonance (usually reserved for crescendos and stingers at the ends of cues in "Lost" style) exist in John Carter, making its listening experience on album a smooth one. The lengthy sequences of easily digestible, tonal calm or light suspense, including nearly the entire post-battle storyline at the end of the film, are worth noting for their Up-like sincerity. The final cue confirms that Giacchino's primary themes are memorable enough to anchor a trilogy, should Disney decide to take the chance. The score as a whole is extremely enjoyable, and skeptics of the sometimes deadening, muted mix of the composer's work by Dan Wallin will be relieved by a more vibrant presentation here (though reverb is still too diminished for a fantasy score of this size). The weaknesses of the work relate to its somewhat muddy enunciations of its Mars-related secondary themes and a seeming inability by Giacchino to nail the narrative flow of the story through satisfying transitions (with an extended sense of anticipation). A more clearly delineated suite of all the themes would have been merited as well. The level of Williams' story-telling mastery is constantly suggested but remains an arm's length away. Still, it's a romp of a score that touches upon several of the composer's best attributes with dynamic enthusiasm. ****
-
Thanks Faleel. I liked this version but it feels slightly scattershot.
Regarding the March itself, I believe the Love Theme is a separate theme which has its own concert version so shouldn't be a part of the concert version of the main theme. I do like the March with it but would probably enjoy it moreso if it were just the main theme.
-
Looking for one for ages. All of the ones I have come across so far have the love theme interlude.
-
Dunno if this list has been seen posted before. Its by American Music Preservation and covers American film scores from the 30's to the 90's. Its a pretty thorough list and is refreshingly not lamely biased in favor of new films. With most lists of these kinds I get the impression that the consciousness of the list maker stretches only as far as 10 years before. Not so here, these guys seem to have a broad eye and have collected a diverse selection.
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="618"> <colgroup> <col /> <col /> <col /> <col /> </colgroup> <tbody> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;width:31px;"> 1</td> <td style="width:339px;"> Citizen Kane</td> <td style="width:64px;"> 1941</td> <td style="width:187px;"> Bernard Herrmann</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 2</td> <td> Ben-Hur</td> <td> 1959</td> <td> Miklos Rozsa</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 3</td> <td> Vertigo</td> <td> 1958</td> <td> Bernard Herrmann</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 4</td> <td> To Kill A Mockingbird</td> <td> 1962</td> <td> Elmer Bernstein</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 5</td> <td> King Kong</td> <td> 1933</td> <td> Max Steiner</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 6</td> <td> The Best Years Of Our Lives</td> <td> 1946</td> <td> Hugo Friedhofer</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 7</td> <td> High Noon</td> <td> 1952</td> <td> Dimitri Tiomkin</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 8</td> <td> Spartacus</td> <td> 1960</td> <td> Alex North</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 9</td> <td> Laura</td> <td> 1944</td> <td> David Raksin</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 10</td> <td> The Adventures Of Robin Hood</td> <td> 1938</td> <td> Erich Wolfgang Korngold</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 11</td> <td> Psycho</td> <td> 1960</td> <td> Bernard Herrmann</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 12</td> <td> Gone With The Wind</td> <td> 1939</td> <td> Max Steiner</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 13</td> <td> Close Encounters Of The Third Kind</td> <td> 1977</td> <td> John Williams</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 14</td> <td> Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back</td> <td> 1980</td> <td> John Williams</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 15</td> <td> The Magnificent Seven</td> <td> 1960</td> <td> Elmer Bernstein</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 16</td> <td> The Alamo</td> <td> 1960</td> <td> Dimitri Tiomkin</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 17</td> <td> North By Northwest</td> <td> 1959</td> <td> Bernard Herrmann</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 18</td> <td> Lawrence Of Arabia</td> <td> 1962</td> <td> Maurice Jarre</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 19</td> <td> How The West Was Won</td> <td> 1963</td> <td> Alfred Newman & Ken Darby</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 20</td> <td> A Place In The Sun</td> <td> 1951</td> <td> Franz Waxman</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 21</td> <td> Patton</td> <td> 1970</td> <td> Jerry Goldsmith</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 22</td> <td> Kings Row</td> <td> 1942</td> <td> Erich Wolfgang Korngold</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 23</td> <td> The Thief Of Bagdad</td> <td> 1940</td> <td> Miklos Rozsa</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 24</td> <td> All That Money Can Buy (The Devil & Daniel Webster)</td> <td> 1941</td> <td> Bernard Herrmann</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 25</td> <td> Star Wars: A New Hope</td> <td> 1977</td> <td> John Williams</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 26</td> <td> King Of Kings</td> <td> 1961</td> <td> Miklos Rozsa</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 27</td> <td> The Big Country</td> <td> 1958</td> <td> Jerome Moross</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 28</td> <td> The Ghost And Mrs. Muir</td> <td> 1946</td> <td> Bernard Herrmann</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 29</td> <td> Schindler'S List</td> <td> 1993</td> <td> John Williams</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 30</td> <td> El Cid</td> <td> 1961</td> <td> Miklos Rozsa</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 31</td> <td> The Man With The Golden Arm</td> <td> 1955</td> <td> Elmer Bernstein</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 32</td> <td> Superman</td> <td> 1978</td> <td> John Williams</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 33</td> <td> The Searchers</td> <td> 1956</td> <td> Max Steiner</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 34</td> <td> Spellbound</td> <td> 1945</td> <td> Miklos Rozsa</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 35</td> <td> The Day The Earth Stood Still</td> <td> 1951</td> <td> Bernard Herrmann</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 36</td> <td> E.T.: The Extra-Terrestrial</td> <td> 1982</td> <td> John Williams</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 37</td> <td> The Wizard Of Oz</td> <td> 1939</td> <td> Herbert Stothart</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 38</td> <td> Islands In The Stream</td> <td> 1976</td> <td> Jerry Goldsmith</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 39</td> <td> Cleopatra</td> <td> 1963</td> <td> Alex North</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 40</td> <td> The Song Of Bernadette</td> <td> 1943</td> <td> Alfred Newman</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 41</td> <td> Planet Of The Apes</td> <td> 1968</td> <td> Jerry Goldsmith</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 42</td> <td> Taras Bulba</td> <td> 1962</td> <td> Franz Waxman</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 43</td> <td> The Fall Of The Roman Empire</td> <td> 1964</td> <td> Dimitri Tiomkin</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 44</td> <td> The Treasure Of The Sierra Madre</td> <td> 1948</td> <td> Max Steiner</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 45</td> <td> Red River</td> <td> 1948</td> <td> Dimitri Tiomkin</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 46</td> <td> The Red Pony</td> <td> 1949</td> <td> Aaron Copland</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 47</td> <td> The Lion In Winter</td> <td> 1968</td> <td> John Barry</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 48</td> <td> Chinatown</td> <td> 1974</td> <td> Jerry Goldsmith</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 49</td> <td> Jaws</td> <td> 1975</td> <td> John Williams</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 50</td> <td> Sunset Boulevard</td> <td> 1950</td> <td> Franz Waxman</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 51</td> <td> Fahrenheit 451</td> <td> 1966</td> <td> Bernard Herrmann</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 52</td> <td> The Bride Of Frankenstein</td> <td> 1935</td> <td> Franz Waxman</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 53</td> <td> Rio Bravo</td> <td> 1959</td> <td> Dimitri Tiomkin</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 54</td> <td> The Mission</td> <td> 1986</td> <td> Ennio Morricone</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 55</td> <td> Captain From Castille</td> <td> 1947</td> <td> Alfred Newman</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 56</td> <td> The Informer</td> <td> 1935</td> <td> Max Steiner</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 57</td> <td> Henry V</td> <td> 1944</td> <td> William Walton</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 58</td> <td> The Ten Commandments</td> <td> 1956</td> <td> Elmer Bernstein</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 59</td> <td> Shane</td> <td> 1953</td> <td> Victor Young</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 60</td> <td> A Streetcar Named Desire</td> <td> 1951</td> <td> Alex North</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 61</td> <td> Breakfast At Tiffany's</td> <td> 1961</td> <td> Henry Mancini</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 62</td> <td> The Bad And The Beautiful</td> <td> 1952</td> <td> David Raksin</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 63</td> <td> It'S A Wonderful Life</td> <td> 1946</td> <td> Dimitri Tiomkin</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 64</td> <td> Now, Voyager</td> <td> 1942</td> <td> Max Steiner</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 65</td> <td> Wuthering Heights</td> <td> 1939</td> <td> Alfred Newman</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 66</td> <td> Casablana</td> <td> 1943</td> <td> Max Steiner</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 67</td> <td> Plymouth Adventure</td> <td> 1952</td> <td> Miklos Rozsa</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 68</td> <td> The Guns Of Navarone</td> <td> 1962</td> <td> Dimitri Tiomkin</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 69</td> <td> Since You Went Away</td> <td> 1944</td> <td> Max Steiner</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 70</td> <td> Summer And Smoke</td> <td> 1961</td> <td> Elmer Bernstein</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 71</td> <td> The Hurricane</td> <td> 1937</td> <td> Alfred Newman</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 72</td> <td> Hatari</td> <td> 1960</td> <td> Henry Mancini</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 73</td> <td> How Green Was My Valley</td> <td> 1940</td> <td> Alfred Newman</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 74</td> <td> Star Trek: The Motion Picture</td> <td> 1979</td> <td> Jerry Goldsmith</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 75</td> <td> Mysterious Island</td> <td> 1961</td> <td> Bernard Herrmann</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 76</td> <td> The Omen</td> <td> 1976</td> <td> Jerry Goldsmith</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 77</td> <td> The Sea Hawk</td> <td> 1941</td> <td> Erich Wolfgang Korngold</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 78</td> <td> Around The World In Eighty Days</td> <td> 1956</td> <td> Victor Young</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 79</td> <td> Hawaii</td> <td> 1966</td> <td> Elmer Bernstein</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 80</td> <td> Lust For Life</td> <td> 1959</td> <td> Miklos Rozsa</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 81</td> <td> The Quiet Man</td> <td> 1952</td> <td> Victor Young</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 82</td> <td> Once Upon A Time In America</td> <td> 1984</td> <td> Ennio Morricone</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 83</td> <td> Our Town</td> <td> 1940</td> <td> Aaron Copland</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 84</td> <td> Out Of Africa</td> <td> 1985</td> <td> John Barry</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 85</td> <td> Julius Caesar</td> <td> 1953</td> <td> Miklos Rozsa</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 86</td> <td> True Grit</td> <td> 1969</td> <td> Elmer Bernstein</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 87</td> <td> The Greatest Story Ever Told</td> <td> 1965</td> <td> Alfred Newman</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 88</td> <td> Double Indemnity</td> <td> 1944</td> <td> Miklos Rozsa</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 89</td> <td> The Uninvited</td> <td> 1944</td> <td> Victor Young</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 90</td> <td> The Robe</td> <td> 1953</td> <td> Alfred Newman</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 91</td> <td> Raintree County</td> <td> 1957</td> <td> Johnny Green</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 92</td> <td> The Sand Pebbles</td> <td> 1966</td> <td> Jerry Goldsmith</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 93</td> <td> The Pink Panther</td> <td> 1964</td> <td> Henry Mancini</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 94</td> <td> The Natural</td> <td> 1984</td> <td> Randy Newman</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 95</td> <td> Taxi Driver</td> <td> 1976</td> <td> Bernard Herrmann</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 96</td> <td> L.A. Confidential</td> <td> 1998</td> <td> Jerry Goldsmith</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 97</td> <td> Goldfinger</td> <td> 1964</td> <td> John Barry</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 98</td> <td> Cocoon</td> <td> 1985</td> <td> James Horner</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 99</td> <td> Batman</td> <td> 1989</td> <td> Danny Elfman</td> </tr> <tr height="20"> <td align="right" height="20" style="height:20px;"> 100</td> <td> Once Upon A Time In The West</td> <td> 1968</td> <td> Ennio Morricone</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
The composer with the most mentions is Bernard Herrmann with 10 scores, followed by Miklos Rozsa with 9 and Alfred Newman and Max Steiner tied in third place with 8 apiece.
Mr Williams is 4th along with Elmer Bernstein, Jerry Goldsmith and Dmitri Timkin at 7 scores. But interestingly all his 7 scores are also in the Top 50. His highest ranked score is Close Encounters Of The Third Kind and his only noticable omission is Raiders Of The Last Arc.
What do you make of this list?
-
There is no two ways about it. This is a gargantuan humungous capital D DISASTER. Disney is relying on Avengers to make for this.
Giacchino's career is unharmed, he possibly made the finest contribution of all involved to the film and will continue to get good big projects.
But a really huge loss for Disney. The marketing was terrible and I still can't believe they dropped "of Mars" from the title. One of the worst decisions in the history of the studio system.
But like some one said above, I wonder if this film even had any business being made at all. I liked it well enough, and I love the book, but it has already been indirectly made quite a few times. But ah well, such is film business.
But in all this hullabaloo about John Carter, people forget that even Scorsese's Hugo was a massive disaster and lost a ton of money. The case with Hugo was possibly worse because it was financed out of the studio system. The producers of that movie are really losing their shirts on that film. But it won universal critical acclaim, and many critics awards and Oscars so people think it was still a success, maybe so, artistically and critically it was a huge success, but financially a disaster.
John Carter seems even more of a disaster because it got panned badly even by critics and will get ZERO awards of any kinds.
-
After listening to the Tintin album a few more times, I think i must add The Scroll's theme to my list, it is an absolute highlight of the score and might stake the claim to actually being the main theme of the score. It is the one that gets the most play in the score, the most development and the most grand performances and as is the most obvious candidate for a concert arrangement. It was also the theme they played at the Oscars when they were playing snippets from every score.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dwlee5b4C8I
The most epic rendition is here at 1:34 -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9R60N-jlNo
when Haddock has his first vision in the desert.
-
Saw the movie again today and there is indeed a ton of stuff not there on the album. Like someone said, this is wall to wall music, barely 10-15 mins in a 2 hour 10 minute film where the music is not present.
I first reckoned I'd a keep a mental not of all the cues missing from the album but gave up after 10 or so as I realized its gonna be a lot. We are easily talking about 40-45 minutes of unreleased material and some of it is very good.
-
Yeah the Pursuit of The Falcon cue on the album and in the film are clearly different - there are overlays, loops, edits, tempo changes and all sorts of things. But overall its the same.
This actually is due to the fact that that cue is so specific (some would call it mickey-mousing), the music follows every jump, every action, every movement on the screen to a T. And it is an EXTREMELY complicated cue, one of the most complex of his entire career. Like literally the various sections of the orchestra are simply swirling with thousands of notes at break neck speed. And this cue was possibly completed a year and a half before the sequence was fully animated as Spielberg says in the Score feature. So if a year later when they have a full render of the sequence and wanna change a few things, the highly specific music will go out of sync even if they elongate a jump by 2 seconds. That is the reason for all the overlays and edits, and loops to keep the music in sync. And they are mostly successful.
For me the track on the OST album is a masterpiece, one of the triumphs of Williams' career, the climax with the explosion of Tintin's theme is one for the ages. It also sounds very good in the film but there is so much destruction happening on the screen in that cue that there have to be a lot of sound effects and that is why the volume of the music is slightly low. But still its a fantastic piece in the movie too.
I am a fan of that sequence even apart from the music, the one take aspect specially raises it to be one of the best in Spielberg's career.
-
If this score gets some Academy Awards Consideration (and I am thinking that it might), we might get some Promo FYC CDs with a lot of the unreleased music.
But inspite of some pieces missing, I think the music on the OST is well chosen and represented. Most of the major cues are present.
-
I believe this is the music you are referring to, heard in this scene -One fun action bit missing from the album is that one scene on the speeder-bike type thing that he "escapes" on after a certain scene.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZJizVwZn04
Yes this cue is not on the OST I believe.
-
Also KK, can you post the from what second to what second in which track is Sola's theme? I couldn't identify it.
-
Great review KK. Just one question. Why do you call 2:11 – 2:30 in “The Fight for Helium” the B phrase of John Carter's theme. That is the main John Carter theme, its not the B Phrase.For anyone interested, I finally got the review done for this score:
http://musicmusekk.w...hael-giacchino/
I must say, I really came to like this score.
- KK
If anything, there is a heroic variation of that theme or the second John Carter theme (of the B theme as I would call it) heard in the track Sab Than Pursues the Princess.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wT_CihVKFKc
Its heard here from 3:22 to 3:33 and again from 3:47 to 3: 57. Its briefly quoted again during the ape scene. I think this is a terrific heroic motif and should have been used more often whenever John Carter did something heroic.
So long story short, what you are calling the B phrase is actually the A phrase and the above motif might be called the B phrase (or a variation of the main theme).
PS: I really loved this score. It works magnificently in the movie as well. I am gonna watch the movie again just for the score.
-
I noticed this too. It just seemed utterly random to me. I guess they pulled out chits from a hat.Another observation that rather puzzles me:
The order in which the nominated scores are presented:
WAR HORSE John Williams
THE ARTIST Ludovic Bource
HUGO Howard Shore
TINKER TAILOR SOLDIER SPY Alberto Iglesias
THE ADVENTURES OF TINTIN John Williams
It's not alphabetically by movie title (as usual) nor alphabetically by composer. Why in this order???
-
Giacchino's score is extra-ordinary. Really great work from him.
The music almost salvages the film, there are numerous sequences where the music comes to the fore and gives emotion and weight and force to the scene which the scene inherently lacks.
The film is good though. Go and catch it guys, its an above average piece of fantasy.
But its worth watching simply for the score. I'd watch it again and the score would be a major reason for that.
-
I am in fucking awe of this score! And the maestro for writing this. I seriously think this is one of the most brilliant scores of the past few years and a solid gold Williams classic, I might even put in my list of Top 5 favorite works by him. I more than love it.
On a side note what is extremely intersting is the realization that even the main title sequence was actually scored. Like it wasn't that Williams just wrote some two minute jazz accompaniment to the titles, the music is suspenseful or exciting or heroic in sync with the title sequence.
This is one of the reasons I believe that none of the other versions of the main title music is a concert suite of the Tintin theme. A concert version of the heroic Tintin theme wouldn't fit the main title sequence at all. So it is definitely not it.
But I do hope that Williams records concert versions of some of the themes from Tintin. The Tintin theme specially. Its one of the best themes he has ever done.
-
I could easily imagine it taking 9-10 months to write. Its is a score extra-ordinary dexterity and monumental articulation. Not to mention how diffiuclt to perform the entire score is. It must have taken quite a few trials to perfect these recordings.
The rest of the time must have been spent in fine-tuning.
I think the fine-tuning of this score might have over-lapped with the writing of War Horse's score.
-
God! It is an extremely complicated score, but is such a long time normal?
I think it might be because they were constantly fidling with synchronization or something and re-orchestrating material.
Compared to this Desplat writes his score is 3-4 weeks (and it shows, or rather sounds). Among contempraries I think Howard Shore (LOTR films) and Horner (Avatar) are the only ones who have taken so long to write a score.
Is this Williams longest development period for a score?
And what is your source of this 16 months figure?
This article -> http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118049792/
And the figure might be legit because it has actual quotes from Williams. It says he recorded it over a 16 month period.
Also I read this interview with Kathleen Kennedy, the producer of Tintin and War Horse and she said that they began recording the music of Tintin even before War Horse had been green-lit.
-
God! It is an extremely complicated score, but is such a long time normal?
I think it might be because they were constantly fidling with synchronization or something and re-orchestrating material.
Compared to this Desplat writes his score is 3-4 weeks (and it shows, or rather sounds). Among contempraries I think Howard Shore (LOTR films) and Horner (Avatar) are the only ones who have taken so long to write a score.
Is this Williams longest development period for a score?
-
No way is it happening, The Artist has as good as already won. IFCMA have much better taste than the Academy, in recent years scores like Social Network, Babel, Slumdog, Brokeback Mountain have won the Academy Award.This should be interesting.
Do many academy voters make there mark here? When does voting for the academy awards close - I really am holding out for JW's 6th Oscar
But I really think that Tintin should and win will here. Williams has a chance to upset at the Oscars but it would be War Horse that would upset at the Oscars (if at all) and not Tintin.
-
Of course. Williams is peerless and will always will be. Giacchino is his heir in the sense in this move towards the trash "scores" of Trent Reznor and the likes, Giacchino will hold the baton for large orchestral scores filled with melodic grace. He's not Williams' equal, but will continue in the same tradition but at a lesser plane of achievement.His other themes from John Carter are very good so no beef. He is an ace composer and very probably Williams' heir.
I don't understand why people keep hailing Giacchino as such. Personally, I don't think Williams will have an heir. After all the great A-list composers are gone (Horner, Elfman, Williams, etc.), the new generation will be filled with talented composers but none of them reaching the level of dominance in the industry as Williams did (or the other A-list composers of our time).
Giacchino has already said that he loved Tintin's scoreWhen did Giacchino say he liked Tintin?
WQXR?
Yep, he said it on WQXR when asked something like what was his most recent favorite score.
I would say in today's times its actually a gift. Scores today lack a lightness of touch, an innate cleverness, they all go for serious angst droning or pounding.Giacchino's work lacks any seriousness or gravity. He only goes for the cartoony comedic way. Are there any of his scores that don't feel like that because I would really like to check it out.
-
Tintin has been out since in October (in Europe) and these guys travel a lot so...I think he heard Tintin's theme before he wrote this. I think it's a semi-rip off but not as obviously done as Horner might do it
And he definitely scored John Carter after the release of Tintin, Dec-Jan is when he scored it.
His other themes from John Carter are very good so no beef. He is an ace composer and very probably Williams' heir.yeah noticed it before. It's like when he ripped off the E.T. themes for Super8
Still, it's ok because it sounds good
La-La Land Records' HOOK (2CD Expanded) Discussion thread
in JOHN WILLIAMS
Posted
Is there a concert version of the Hook Main theme anywhere?
The theme tht plays at o:32 in this cue ->
I hope I am currently identifying this theme as the main theme. And is there a concert version of this theme?