TheUlyssesian

February 23

They made a big deal about Hildur winning best score - the first time for a woman. Would they have cut her speech down.

This year a woman might win best cinematography for the first time.

Some years ago a black woman won best production design for the first time. Now they would have cut it down.

Edmilson · February 23

7 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

This is the worst movie I watched last year. Maybe it's the Snyder fanatics of Twitter, desperatly trying to see their favorite director winning an Oscar?

Yes it is the Snyder trolls. They earlier voted for Snyder Cut but the academy said it wasn't eligible since it wasn't a theatrical release so they switched to Army of the Dead.

February 23

8 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said:

So because of Tom Holland and his shitty Spider-Man movie, best original score has been permanently cut from the broadcast...

That's not even winning the popular category. Apparently the favorites are Cinderella and Army of the Dead.

February 23

1 hour ago, Edmilson said:

Fixed.

I'm pretty sure the award this year will go to Greenwood, unless Zimmer campaigns really hard for it.

Why do you think so.

I think his word on Power of the Dog is strictly okay. I saw the film 6 months ago and i remember just one cue from the score - the one also used in the trailer.

Sacrilege for me to say this but I think Zimmer's score for Dune is better than Power of the Dog, though it is also not a very good score.

Greenwood's spencer is much better.

crumbs · February 23

Zero interest in watch John Williams accepting an oscar for Fablemans in the toilet. Are you kidding me? How do they keep coming up with this terrible shit.

Andy · February 22

I think its a great performance and the Shining is of course a very great film.

BrotherSound · February 22

6 hours ago, BrotherSound said:

@TheUlyssesian I’d love to see a restoration of ‘Clash of the Cranes’, in particular, if you’re up for making more of these! If not, I might make an attempt.

Well that ain't of my favorite cues so go for it. I might do one for Pursuit of the Falcon but not Clash.

Taikomochi · February 22

2 minutes ago, WampaRat said:

I’m feeling this will impact Zimmer getting the gold for Dune. It’s gonna be Greenwood now for sure.

1 minute ago, Disco Stu said:

Maybe the piece was a plant by Greenwood's team!

Not gonna matter an iota.

It's like the Harvey Weinstein thing. EVERYBODY IN HOLLYWOOD KNOWS. EVERYONE. TO THE LAST PERSON.

February 22

8 minutes ago, Mephariel said:

And there is nothing wrong with that. I mean, filmmaking in general is a collaborative process. From acting to writing to shooting, etc.

Why would you go alone and be less competitive? You said it yourself. You don't play football alone. Or you can... you just won't win.

Depends upon whether you think music composition (for film or otherwise) is a game of football or tennis. I happen to think it is tennis.

HunterTech · February 22

As for some of these other composers like JNH, Silvestri, Eflman - let me speculate.

I think the gutter trash garbage state the American film and tv industry is also in large part a cause - as are terrifying technology changes.

Take Episode 9. We know Williams had a terrible time on it because the edit was changing dramatically and drastically from day to day to day. When does Williams even score it? There is no locked picture till premiere night in many of these case. I know it is truly shocking but this is just a standard state of affairs these days. There is no pencil down moment anymore where the edit is locked and the film is sent to the composer. That is just a fantasy now. These days a film can be edited literally until the last moment in premieres or is dropped on streaming and often is. Even a release these days is not final final final. As with digital technology, we have seen edits AFTER RELEASE TOO. Withs streaming it is easy, just replace the file on the server. With Cinemas too it is sadly easy these days. Most theaters use digital projection. Just transmit a new version to theaters to voila. Even No Way Home has been known to send some improved VFX shots to theaters after release.

So essentially a window to score the film that was set aside in the past DOES NOT EXIST ANYMORE.

What is the result of this?

Your score is never done until the moment of recording (if recording with the orchestra - we know even that is going away as more and more people are using syths.)

So this is why some of the name composers might use additional composers -

JNH will write the cue. Then revise it. Then revise it again. And again. And again. And again. And again - the 9th time. 10th time. 11th time. 15th time.

There will come a time when he would be like - and very legitimately - I HAVE FUCKING DONE MY WORK. THIS ISN'T WORTH MY TIME OR DIGNITY ANYMORE. Here additional composer - the cue is 90% there. The director can't stop fiddling with the scene. For versions 16 through 40 - you make the adjustments - which can be taking notes off here, adding few there, lowering brass here because the Sound VFX guy wants his bullet sound, increasing tempo here because the cut is sooner.

This is the pure minutiae of it. And many composers have done this work too - painstakingly. JNH himself wrote the main title of Fantastic Beasts 41 times.

But can you blame him if he feels - that on Hunger Games 4, cue 58, version 27 - he feels. That's it. I am giving this to an assistant to adjust.

I should hasten to add, in this case - it would still be JNH's work. But in Zimmer's case - the entire cue is assigned to the additional composer. It is almost a reverse relationship. The additional composer writes first and then Zimmer comes in and makes adjustments. In that case - the credit should go to the additional composer for the cue - he fucking wrote it.

It is truly a sorry business now - film and music scoring. We know the sheer reckless horrifying abandon these large 300 million dollar movies work on - fiddling till the last second. No good film scoring is possible due to such circumstances and the monster of additional composers is as much of the result of the director's schizophrenia as it is of the composers's laziness and lack of talent.

badbu · February 22

43 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

Yes, the Zannelli thread was posted on a previous page yesterday. I think he and many of the Zimlings that have succeeded might not even be able to envision a different way of doing things.

Yep - they might go - writing an entire score alone????? - are you nuts??? - who does that??? - can you imagine playing football with a team of one??? - no you can't because no one does that.

For some of these additional composers, composing a film score is a collaborative project. And they will never comprehend the desire to do it alone.

Will · February 22

30 minutes ago, Stark said:

Very interesting article. I see at least one person wondering about James Newton Howard - I can definitely confirm that he has used additional music composers at various points, including Chris Bacon (source: https://kraft-engel.com/clients/chris-bacon/) and Sven Faulconer (source: https://www.svenfaulconer.com). I don’t know who else might have worked for him or how much music they actually compose, or even how well they are credited, though.

I presume they include John Williams, Howard Shore, and Carter Burwell - I have quite a few other candidates (Silvestri, Doyle, the Newmans, and so on), the “one hand”, may have been slightly hyperbolic!

Oh JNH gave Bacon absolute full on screen equal billing co credit. Now that's what you called giving credit.

I now see that Sven has helped JNH a ton. I still get the sense in this case the arrangement is JNH absolutely being the author of the work and Sven helping with details (most of his credits say synth programming).

Edmilson · February 22

18 minutes ago, Will said:

If Giacchino uses ghostwriters (I have been unable to find any confirmation that he does, but some who know more than me seem to know or assume that to be the case) that has to be one of the most egregious examples of failing to properly credit. E.g., as best I can remember, the Rogue One score credits Bill Ross & others for orchestrations but nothing more than that. No additional composers are listed, I believe (others can correct me if I'm wrong).

If anyone finds any statements by James Newton Howard about whether he uses ghostwriters, I'd love to see it. He's a guy I'm curious about (along with Silvestri). For that matter, if anyone finds any quotes of Desplat, Giacchino, or anyone else talking about ghostwriting, please post!

Might just be me. I kiiiinda get the feeling that JNH writes all his own music or most of it.

I saw this masterclass with him about how he scored Fantastic Beasts and over an hour of conversation, the level of articulation that he had about every single note, every single theme, instrumentation choice, pace, rhythm, etc. really made it seem to me that he wrote every last note of it.

February 22

11 minutes ago, LSH said:

Oscars mean jack shit in a creative sense and it's so very awfully sad that it's deemed a stamp of quality... and a plus-point on your CV.

Oscars are like bitcoin - they have value if people trading in them think they have value.

And whether you like it or not - the film industry absolutely does. Absolutely absolutely absolutely. To a person. Would they like to be nominated? Heck ya. Would they like to win one? Double heck ya.

So there you go. That's the reason they have value - to them. Maybe not to you but to them - for sure.

February 22

17 hours ago, Lord Zimmer said:

“I did not like reading that as it goes against the narrative I’ve been trying to push. Therefore I’m going to make up some shit to devalue it.”

I legit thought this post was in support of my post.

When I come into this thread later on and see some responses do I realize that it is mocking me.

But read it again - it is literally a perfect summation of what Geoff Zannelli is trying to do.

February 22

2 minutes ago, Mephariel said:

The problem with this type of thinking is, do you also think second unit directors should stand with the director? Some action scenes in movies are done literally without the director present. What about cinematographers? Do you think assistant cinematographers should win an Oscar too? What about writers? Do you think every writer who wrote a line should get the Oscar too? Some scripts have tons of people uncredited.

i know all this is a real problem. For the kind of movies I like, all this isn’t a problem. But overall I agree this is a real problem.

Though I would also argue that films where this is a real problem are not usually up for awards.

February 21

9 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said:

what could be the early 90s score Williams was amazed of having been written in three weeks?

It is confounding me. It said "popular".

TSMefford · February 21

5 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

We finally have reaction from an actual Zimling:

Geoff Zannelli's Twitter thread

https://twitter.com/GeoffZanelli/status/1495849542658531338

Feels like he was asked to post this.

WampaRat · February 21

14 minutes ago, WampaRat said:

I find it silly that people would be “confused” if all the other composers were credited.
Do people believe the production designer built every thing seen on film themselves? Or the sound designer did it all himself? Each person on the poster just represents an entire department. But I suppose the average Joe wouldn’t know that(?) I dunno. It’s sad not everyone is getting their due credit (or rightful pay).

I understand the department comparison. While it is true of Production Design and Costume Design - I think music is most similar to script-writing.

It has always been thought to be essentially one person's creation.

We generally perceive of classic musical - or symphonic music - for centuries now - to be written by a person.

Just like we have perceived literature - generally - to be written by a person.

The problem with Film Music - is the advertisement. It is still undoubtedly advertised as being a singular creation. When it is not.

I have no quarrel with the model. The model is ... let's just say.. inevitable.

What's important is the broadcasting the reality of it and generating awareness.

Basically these co-composers should exist, not arguing against their existence, but they should exist more prominently - on covers, and in movie credits, and on award nominations, and on streaming apps etc.

The point is the injustice - with literally that composer claiming she was literally on the streets due to lack of credit.

They deserve credit so that they can have a better life, better jobs. It is almost a case of survival for some of these composers.

WampaRat · February 21

16 minutes ago, WampaRat said:

Maybe they should change some titles around. That way people would know they’re essentially just directors of all things related to the music. Sure they wrote some stuff. But not every note you hear. (Like the general public would assume)

or why not give the award to everyone who composed the music?

crumbs · February 21

6 minutes ago, Brónach said:

Ghost composers should be called composers and required to appear on main credits, end credits, cd covers and track listing; unless the composer group forms a boy band or something and they prefer that.

They should get the bloody oscar nomination too because that is what is going to get them the next jobs and the best jobs and higher pay and better working conditions.

Isn't it outrageous that Zimmer - he is likely to win - will head alone on to the stage of the academy awards and receive laurels for composing the score for Dune?

Think how transformative it would be for some other composers if they are standing beside him on that stage accepting the laurels as co-creators of the work.

Brando · February 21

This is an article riddle with a lack of balls and full of cowardice.

It needed to be an expose of Zimmer. The general public rides his balls thinking he is the greatest composer that ever lived.

It would be a much bigger story if they exposed him completely.

It lacks courage because even though it makes some hits at him later on, it absolves him right there in the second paragraph saying he is one of the greats. Any hits later on are not going to register if you start with that.

What a missed opportunity.

February 19

This can’t be right. Like not even remotely.

If they take inflation into account surely there are several.

What about Walt Disney?

And Cameron too.

February 18

That Catwoman theme ain't half bad.

February 18

32 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

Probably not deceitful. Just stupid.

He implies Williams is scoring the entire series.

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