TheUlyssesian

They "sing" it.

Ditto aside from IMAX (although Leicester Square Odeon is still a very fine cinema to watch it), but totally agree on the music. As I said in my longer review in the 2023 movies thread, the scoring made each dialogue scene sound like it was either part of a montage or from a trailer, urging on to the next scene, rarely letting the scenes breathe and not letting the actors bring their own drama. It meant that truly pivotal scenes were scored to the same level of intensity and were thus robbed of a lot of their impact. So many scenes needed the quiet of an empty room or lecture hall but didn't get it.
 
As I also noted in my comments (link below), the music seemed to always fill the entire aural space rather so it's not surprising the dialogue was often drowned out. There was no writing music around the dialogue or ebb and flow to scenes, just ratcheting up the tension over and over. He just doesn't seem that great at spotting his films for music; I mean, everything was scored in more or less the same style, so it didn't actually feel like there was much nuance to the spotting. "Yeah, can we have some tense strings/electronics here... and here... and here... oh and there, there and there... maybe a bit louder here" - repeat for 3 hours.
 
Anyway, more blathering on this here...  I'm gonna listen to some Shostakovich.
 

I saw it in 70mm IMAX - as intended. 
 
I found the score distracting and too loud in the film. It was nearly constant, blaring loudly and drowning out dialog.
 
I could discern some some variation in the music but it seemed largely same-y.
 
Not impressed.

I saw it in 70mm IMAX - as intended. 
 
I found the score distracting and too loud in the film. It was nearly constant, blaring loudly and drowning out dialog.
 
I could discern some some variation in the music but it seemed largely same-y.
 
Not impressed.

I saw it in 70mm IMAX - as intended. 
 
I found the score distracting and too loud in the film. It was nearly constant, blaring loudly and drowning out dialog.
 
I could discern some some variation in the music but it seemed largely same-y.
 
Not impressed.

I saw it in 70mm IMAX - as intended. 
 
I found the score distracting and too loud in the film. It was nearly constant, blaring loudly and drowning out dialog.
 
I could discern some some variation in the music but it seemed largely same-y.
 
Not impressed.

I saw it in 70mm IMAX - as intended. 
 
I found the score distracting and too loud in the film. It was nearly constant, blaring loudly and drowning out dialog.
 
I could discern some some variation in the music but it seemed largely same-y.
 
Not impressed.

I saw it in 70mm IMAX - as intended. 
 
I found the score distracting and too loud in the film. It was nearly constant, blaring loudly and drowning out dialog.
 
I could discern some some variation in the music but it seemed largely same-y.
 
Not impressed.

I saw it in 70mm IMAX - as intended. 
 
I found the score distracting and too loud in the film. It was nearly constant, blaring loudly and drowning out dialog.
 
I could discern some some variation in the music but it seemed largely same-y.
 
Not impressed.

I think we all can agree - from 2015 onwards began a new phase of Williams' career. He has exclusively composed music for his close collaborators o friends (Spielberg, Kathleen Kennedy, Bryant). Dial of Destiny may or may not be his last score. Time to make an assessment with regards to his notable contributions to his monumental body of indelible themes and melodies he has already created. 
 
As a reminder here are the 10 eligible scores from which we can pick themes & motifs - 
 
Star Wars: The Force Awakens (2015)
The BFG (2016)
Dear Basketball (2017)
Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2017)
The Post (2017)
Solo: A Star Wars Story (2018)
Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (2019)
The Fabelmans (2022)
Obi-Wan Kenobi (2022)
Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (2023)
 
For this exercise - your own definition of theme or motif, and for any less familiar one - obscure one - provide a link so that other's can listen in.
 
Here are my picks. 
 
1. Rey's Theme (Star Wars: The Force Awakens)
2. March of the Resistance (Star Wars: The Force Awakens)
3. Jedi Steps (Star Wars: The Force Awakens)
4. Victory Theme (Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker) - The theme that plays in the beginning of this track https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-9reMkxTjw
5. Sophie's Theme (The BFG) - The theme that plays in the beginning of this track https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBHovCi4iI4
6. Dear Basketball Theme (Dear Basketball) - Concert suite presentation -ish of theme https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKMmOqrY3OY
7. Setting the Type Motif (The Post) - Heard at 0:10, 0:54, 1:58 in this concert suits like presentation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SgX139uZY8
8. The Fabelmans main theme (The Fabelmans) - As heard in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXD5a6C1eVg
9. Rose's Theme (Star Wars: The Last Jedi) - The theme that plays in the beginning of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP0nEO6q8iI
10. Nazi Might Theme (Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny) - The theme that plays at 1:07 in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFioda0kMzw and scores the title card
 
 

It was. It is. And Eidelman did a fine fine job. It's a very watchable film. It was a very fine send-off (sign off) for Kirk and Co. But it was done as much on the cheap as they could manage for a Star Trek film. Which is the same approach that gave us The Wrath of Khan. But I think they cut closer to the bone here. For one thing the cast was much more expensive than they were 9 years before.
 
I'm trying to think of the last film that Williams was involved with that wasn't considered 'A-List' from front to back?

Kind of the low end for a mid budget drama in the late 90s, I think. 

I think we all can agree - from 2015 onwards began a new phase of Williams' career. He has exclusively composed music for his close collaborators o friends (Spielberg, Kathleen Kennedy, Bryant). Dial of Destiny may or may not be his last score. Time to make an assessment with regards to his notable contributions to his monumental body of indelible themes and melodies he has already created. 
 
As a reminder here are the 10 eligible scores from which we can pick themes & motifs - 
 
Star Wars: The Force Awakens (2015)
The BFG (2016)
Dear Basketball (2017)
Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2017)
The Post (2017)
Solo: A Star Wars Story (2018)
Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (2019)
The Fabelmans (2022)
Obi-Wan Kenobi (2022)
Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (2023)
 
For this exercise - your own definition of theme or motif, and for any less familiar one - obscure one - provide a link so that other's can listen in.
 
Here are my picks. 
 
1. Rey's Theme (Star Wars: The Force Awakens)
2. March of the Resistance (Star Wars: The Force Awakens)
3. Jedi Steps (Star Wars: The Force Awakens)
4. Victory Theme (Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker) - The theme that plays in the beginning of this track https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-9reMkxTjw
5. Sophie's Theme (The BFG) - The theme that plays in the beginning of this track https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBHovCi4iI4
6. Dear Basketball Theme (Dear Basketball) - Concert suite presentation -ish of theme https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKMmOqrY3OY
7. Setting the Type Motif (The Post) - Heard at 0:10, 0:54, 1:58 in this concert suits like presentation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SgX139uZY8
8. The Fabelmans main theme (The Fabelmans) - As heard in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXD5a6C1eVg
9. Rose's Theme (Star Wars: The Last Jedi) - The theme that plays in the beginning of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP0nEO6q8iI
10. Nazi Might Theme (Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny) - The theme that plays at 1:07 in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFioda0kMzw and scores the title card
 
 

1. Rey's Theme (TFA) 
2. March of the Resistance (TFA) 
3. The friendship theme (TROS) 
4. The victory theme (TROS) 
5. Poe's theme (TFA) 
6. The Adventures of Han (Solo) 
7. Helena's Theme (DOD) 
8. Kylo Ren's Theme (TFA) 
8. Rose's Theme (TLJ) 
9. Anthem of Evil (TROS) 
10. Obi-Wan Kenobi

1. Rey's Theme
2. Rise of Skywalker (The Rise of Skywalker)
3. The Fabelmans (The Fabelmans)
4. Adventures of Han (Solo)
5. Dear Basketball (Dear Basketball)
6. Kylo Ren's Theme 
7. Mother and Daughter (The Post)
8. The Presses Roll (The Post)
9. The BFG friendship theme (The BFG) (0:56 of Blowing Dreams)
10. The Nazi Suite (prologue from The Dial of Destiny)

On a serious note - 
 
Did Williams go overboard with FOUR Nazi motifs? Was he specially inspired by them? Does he have Nazi memorabilia stacked up somewhere in his home that we are not aware of? 😀
 
And secondly in his big concert suite of themes - the first album track (and end credits) - he manages to get in nearly every theme and motif - except the main Dial Of Destiny theme!

But he did it.  

It was a long and complicated process, though it started very simply with me pitching the idea with a cold-email back in early May. The thrust of what I wrote initially was more academic in tone, and I had a few more examples in mind: the theme from Slalom on Mt. Humol; the key changes from Bug Tunnel/Death Trap; the rhythms of Ants!; that brass canon Belly of the Steel Beast; and even a mention of Falcon Flight from TROS (as proof that JW "still got it" when it comes to action scoring). But during editing, everything was, quite logically, focused down onto more to a few key examples.
 
The biggest editorial note I received was to make it all more autobiographical and assertive in its opinion, which was a tone I was not used to writing in. But I think it worked out -- the personal touch in particular (anyone else have that Kid Stuff album?; it really was formative to me!). Once everything got going -- after Dial came out, primarily -- the editing process was really supportive and pleasant. 
 
As far as the multimedia element, I can only point to the incredible design team at the Times. I just specified the timestamps and they worked their magic behind the scenes. I was super lucky that they had access to that high quality, recent video of JW conducting the Scherzo for Motorcycle and Orchestra with Berlin, that was a real coup.

I'm actually curious how this piece came together, @Falstaft.  Did you cold-email the Times with a proposal?  Did they come to you as a relevant expert, wanting something to pin to the release of the film?  Was it always going to be a multimedia project?  Did you have to give them specific timestamps for the music and video embeds?
 
Let's hear the DVD extras on this!

Thanks everyone. I actually wrote this well before Dial came out, but was glad I was able to sneak in a last minute edit about "The Battle of Syracuse." My secret hope is that some Disney exec sees this article and realizes a score-only presentation of Indy 5 would be a good idea!

@Tydirium Thanks. Pretty interesting how alot of these themes are 3/4 or 6/8. At least of the ones I've tried to transcribe. And yea, those trombone notes are 8th note trips, why didn't I think of that? I forgot off beat triplets exists sometimes. I've updated my post with these changes.

That’s pretty close! I think the whole passage you transcribed could be in 3/4, though, rather than messing around with time signature changes. And you’re right; those notes which you have as 16ths, are actually eighth-note triplets.
 
EDIT: Check out the section starting at 2:58 in “Prologue,” and you’ll see what I mean about 3/4 with that theme; it shows how the note after the sixteenth is a downbeat. Also, for the purposes of your example, it’s worth noting that 3:12 of “Prologue” is almost identical to 3:20 of “Germany, 1944.” The main difference being that “Prologue” has two bars of 3/4 before the trumpet entrance, whereas “Germany, 1944” has two bars of 3/4 followed by what I assume is one bar of 4/4.

Here's my attempt at this theme. As usual, I'm not a music theorist so I don't know the key or meter, but the general idea is here. I don't think the descending 16ths in bar 2 of the trombone part are 16th notes. They sound slightly slower to my ear. Also uncertain about the notes on the strings. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
Edit: Updated trombone and 3/4 time.

To each his own I guess.
For me:
Tintin>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>DOD
 
Tintin has the brilliant main titles music, and Snowy's theme in which I LOVE those piano passages.

Jungle Chase walked so that Falcon Pursuit could run - for both Spielberg and Williams.
 
 Both are very complex elaborate sequences with multiple things happening simultaneously with the heros splitting up and combining in various configurations and a breakneck chase as the macguffin switches  hands multiple times within the same scene. 
 
it is a breathtaking dazzling marvel of choreography, direction and editing. And scoring. 
 
nothing in DoD compares - directorially or musically.
 
KOTCS is a better film than DOD in every imaginable way.