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TheUlyssesian

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  1. Like
    TheUlyssesian reacted to Damien F in Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (Score in the film) - SPOILERS ALLOWED!   
    I think Prologue is actually referring to being a prologue to the album itself rather than the film's 1944 prologue. The track contains Helena's theme who doesn't even appear in the 1944 prologue.
     
    If the home media release does contain an isolated score, I think music in the 1944 prologue will sound very edited and disjointed.
  2. Like
    TheUlyssesian got a reaction from BB-8 in Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (Disney Records Original Soundtrack Album) - NO FILM SPOILERS!   
    Adding 1 more theme to the mix! And more notes. Suggestion Welcome!
    EXPAND SPOILER TAB TO SEE TIMESTAMPS.
     
    BAD GUY THEMES
     
     Nazi Might Theme
    - first theme heard in the score
    - scores title card
    - appears during prolog flashback and present day scenes
    - scores a dramatic reveal during third act
    - first theme in end credits after Indy & Helena
     
     Nazi Spirit Theme 
    - appears during prolog flashback and present day scenes
    - scores a dramatic initiative by a Nazi officer in prolog flashback
    - scores a very key scene where fates of multiple main characters are decided
     
    Nazi Determination Theme (Most prevalent Nazi theme)
    - appears during prolog flashback and present day scenes
    - most frequently used Nazi theme in present day scenes
    - scores a dramatic action by the villains late in the film

    Nazi Supremacy Theme
    - appears during prolog flashback and present day scenes
    - usually appears when the villains have captured one of the good guys
     
    Voller Theme 
    - appears during prolog flashback and present day scenes
    - single most frequent bad guy theme
    - de facto main villain theme of the film
    - in prolog flashback represents Voller
    - in present day represents Voller and his goons
    - represented very badly on album - in the film it is played quite frequently
     
    MCGUFFIN THEMES
     
    Dial Of Destiny Theme
    - main mcguffin theme
    - appears almost every time the dial is shown on screen
    - appears during prolog flashback and present day scenes
     
    Dial of Destiny Piano Motif
    - appears when characters are thinking or talking about the dial
     
     Antiquity Theme
    - appears during discussions on ancient concepts etc
    - appears in present day scenes only
     
    Archimedes Theme 
    - represents the Greek philosopher as he created the dial
    - only heard during the third act
    - people love this theme but there is a reason it doesn't appear earlier or more frequently
     
    Syracuse Motif
    - No spoilers!
  3. Like
    TheUlyssesian got a reaction from crumbs in Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (Score in the film) - SPOILERS ALLOWED!   
    The prologue as scored in the film is a mess. It introduces 6 new themes among a mish mash of tracked and re-recorded temp. The listeners would be lost. It might have played poorly as an opener.
     
    So maybe he approximated the prologue music with his credits concert piece first to give the listeners a taste of the same themes but in a cleaner presentation. 
  4. Like
    TheUlyssesian got a reaction from Damien F in Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (Score in the film) - SPOILERS ALLOWED!   
    The prologue as scored in the film is a mess. It introduces 6 new themes among a mish mash of tracked and re-recorded temp. The listeners would be lost. It might have played poorly as an opener.
     
    So maybe he approximated the prologue music with his credits concert piece first to give the listeners a taste of the same themes but in a cleaner presentation. 
  5. Like
    TheUlyssesian got a reaction from oierem in Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (Score in the film) - SPOILERS ALLOWED!   
    The prologue as scored in the film is a mess. It introduces 6 new themes among a mish mash of tracked and re-recorded temp. The listeners would be lost. It might have played poorly as an opener.
     
    So maybe he approximated the prologue music with his credits concert piece first to give the listeners a taste of the same themes but in a cleaner presentation. 
  6. Like
    TheUlyssesian got a reaction from Falstaft in Dial of Destiny: Theme Transcriptions (Updated)   
    This is fantastic. Beginning to look at the work as a whole - is it fair to say that with the number of new ideas williams has created, this is one of the more complex/ambitious works in Indy and the most new ideas he has written for a film since Ep7/BFG.
     
    Seems like he was inspired this time and provided a large number of new identities. 
     
    We also have to take into consideration that just like Rey itself has 3-4 motifs within the theme, even Helena has several motifs within at.
     
    Overall, we might be looking at over a dozen new ideas.
  7. Haha
    TheUlyssesian got a reaction from A. A. Ron in Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (Disney Records Original Soundtrack Album) - NO FILM SPOILERS!   
    On a serious note - 
     
    Did Williams go overboard with FOUR Nazi motifs? Was he specially inspired by them? Does he have Nazi memorabilia stacked up somewhere in his home that we are not aware of? 😀
     
    And secondly in his big concert suite of themes - the first album track (and end credits) - he manages to get in nearly every theme and motif - except the main Dial Of Destiny theme!
  8. Love
    TheUlyssesian got a reaction from Tydirium in Dial of Destiny: Theme Transcriptions (Updated)   
    This is fantastic. Beginning to look at the work as a whole - is it fair to say that with the number of new ideas williams has created, this is one of the more complex/ambitious works in Indy and the most new ideas he has written for a film since Ep7/BFG.
     
    Seems like he was inspired this time and provided a large number of new identities. 
     
    We also have to take into consideration that just like Rey itself has 3-4 motifs within the theme, even Helena has several motifs within at.
     
    Overall, we might be looking at over a dozen new ideas.
  9. Haha
    TheUlyssesian got a reaction from Goldsmithfan in Dial of Destiny: Cue-by-Cue Breakdown of the Score   
    They "sing" it.
  10. Haha
    TheUlyssesian got a reaction from Martinland in Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (Disney Records Original Soundtrack Album) - NO FILM SPOILERS!   
    On a serious note - 
     
    Did Williams go overboard with FOUR Nazi motifs? Was he specially inspired by them? Does he have Nazi memorabilia stacked up somewhere in his home that we are not aware of? 😀
     
    And secondly in his big concert suite of themes - the first album track (and end credits) - he manages to get in nearly every theme and motif - except the main Dial Of Destiny theme!
  11. Haha
    TheUlyssesian got a reaction from Manakin Skywalker in Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (Disney Records Original Soundtrack Album) - NO FILM SPOILERS!   
    😃
     
    James Mangold: Johnny! Helena's theme is great. How about we do ONE theme for the bad guys and ONE theme for the mcguffin - like in the other films? 
     
    John Williams: Yes! Yes! Yes! (laughs manically)
  12. Haha
    TheUlyssesian got a reaction from Brando in Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (Disney Records Original Soundtrack Album) - NO FILM SPOILERS!   
    😃
     
    James Mangold: Johnny! Helena's theme is great. How about we do ONE theme for the bad guys and ONE theme for the mcguffin - like in the other films? 
     
    John Williams: Yes! Yes! Yes! (laughs manically)
  13. Neutral
    TheUlyssesian got a reaction from MaxMovieMan in Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (Disney Records Original Soundtrack Album) - NO FILM SPOILERS!   
    On a serious note - 
     
    Did Williams go overboard with FOUR Nazi motifs? Was he specially inspired by them? Does he have Nazi memorabilia stacked up somewhere in his home that we are not aware of? 😀
     
    And secondly in his big concert suite of themes - the first album track (and end credits) - he manages to get in nearly every theme and motif - except the main Dial Of Destiny theme!
  14. Like
    TheUlyssesian got a reaction from Courtney Sees Ghosts in Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (Disney Records Original Soundtrack Album) - NO FILM SPOILERS!   
    Adding 1 more theme to the mix! And more notes. Suggestion Welcome!
    EXPAND SPOILER TAB TO SEE TIMESTAMPS.
     
    BAD GUY THEMES
     
     Nazi Might Theme
    - first theme heard in the score
    - scores title card
    - appears during prolog flashback and present day scenes
    - scores a dramatic reveal during third act
    - first theme in end credits after Indy & Helena
     
     Nazi Spirit Theme 
    - appears during prolog flashback and present day scenes
    - scores a dramatic initiative by a Nazi officer in prolog flashback
    - scores a very key scene where fates of multiple main characters are decided
     
    Nazi Determination Theme (Most prevalent Nazi theme)
    - appears during prolog flashback and present day scenes
    - most frequently used Nazi theme in present day scenes
    - scores a dramatic action by the villains late in the film

    Nazi Supremacy Theme
    - appears during prolog flashback and present day scenes
    - usually appears when the villains have captured one of the good guys
     
    Voller Theme 
    - appears during prolog flashback and present day scenes
    - single most frequent bad guy theme
    - de facto main villain theme of the film
    - in prolog flashback represents Voller
    - in present day represents Voller and his goons
    - represented very badly on album - in the film it is played quite frequently
     
    MCGUFFIN THEMES
     
    Dial Of Destiny Theme
    - main mcguffin theme
    - appears almost every time the dial is shown on screen
    - appears during prolog flashback and present day scenes
     
    Dial of Destiny Piano Motif
    - appears when characters are thinking or talking about the dial
     
     Antiquity Theme
    - appears during discussions on ancient concepts etc
    - appears in present day scenes only
     
    Archimedes Theme 
    - represents the Greek philosopher as he created the dial
    - only heard during the third act
    - people love this theme but there is a reason it doesn't appear earlier or more frequently
     
    Syracuse Motif
    - No spoilers!
  15. Like
    TheUlyssesian reacted to Falstaft in Dial of Destiny: Theme Transcriptions (Updated)   
    I updated the original post to include all of the themes identified so far by @TheUlyssesian -- new additions include Voller's motif as an independent theme, the Nazi Determination motif, the Antikythera piano figure, and the Syracuse battle pattern.
     
    I'll be busy also updating my IJ thematic catalogue with more references and analytical stuff over the coming days, if folks are interested:  https://franklehman.com/indiana-jones-themes/
  16. Like
    TheUlyssesian reacted to Falstaft in Dial of Destiny: Theme Transcriptions (Updated)   
    Not sure if this warrants its own thread or not, but I've done a first pass at transcriptions of the new themes from DoD. I don't know if we've come up with consensus labels for all of these, besides the obvious for Helena and Voller. Also have little confidence that the Archimedes theme is transcribed rhythmically 100% accurately, or the tertiary Nazi theme harmonically.
     
     
    Helena (transcribed from arrangement that premiered last year):

     
     
     
     
    Antiquity/Antithykera Mechanism (transcribed from "Prologue")

     
     
     
    Antithykera Mechanism (transcribed from "Archimedes Tomb")

     
     
    Antikythera Piano Figure (transcribed from "Battle of Syracuse")
     

     
     
     
     
     
    Archimedes (Transcribed from "Prologue")

     
     
     
    Nazis 0 "Voller" (transcribed from "Airport")

     
     
     
     Nazis 1 "Spirit" (transcribed from "Prologue")

     
     
     
    Nazis 2 "Supremacy" - exotic and furtive (transcribed from "Prologue")

     
     
     
    Nazis 3 "Might" -- chorale(transcribed from "Prologue")

     
     
     
    Nazis 4 "Determination" -- Transcribed from "The Airport"

     
     
     
     
    Syracuse -- Transcribed from "The Battle of Syracuse"
     

     
  17. Like
    TheUlyssesian reacted to Jurassic Shark in Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (Disney Records Original Soundtrack Album) - NO FILM SPOILERS!   
    But kind of a weird question, since it concerned old themes. It would have made more sense if the question involved Helena's theme.
  18. Haha
    TheUlyssesian got a reaction from MikeH in Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (Disney Records Original Soundtrack Album) - NO FILM SPOILERS!   
    😃
     
    James Mangold: Johnny! Helena's theme is great. How about we do ONE theme for the bad guys and ONE theme for the mcguffin - like in the other films? 
     
    John Williams: Yes! Yes! Yes! (laughs manically)
  19. Like
    TheUlyssesian reacted to Falstaft in Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (Disney Records Original Soundtrack Album) - NO FILM SPOILERS!   
    Arguably, DoD features five, if you count the repurposed snatches of ROTLA's "Fist Fight/The Flying Wing" that feature that film's Nazi motif! Heck, even six, if you're convinced (I'm not at all) that TLC's Nazi theme is intentionally alluded to at the end of "Polybius Cipher."
  20. Like
    TheUlyssesian got a reaction from Falstaft in Dial of Destiny: Theme Transcriptions (Updated)   
    I added more color and notes to each theme and have put them in 2 broad groups.
     
     
  21. Confused
    TheUlyssesian got a reaction from Courtney Sees Ghosts in Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (Disney Records Original Soundtrack Album) - NO FILM SPOILERS!   
    On a serious note - 
     
    Did Williams go overboard with FOUR Nazi motifs? Was he specially inspired by them? Does he have Nazi memorabilia stacked up somewhere in his home that we are not aware of? 😀
     
    And secondly in his big concert suite of themes - the first album track (and end credits) - he manages to get in nearly every theme and motif - except the main Dial Of Destiny theme!
  22. Haha
    TheUlyssesian got a reaction from crumbs in Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (Disney Records Original Soundtrack Album) - NO FILM SPOILERS!   
    😃
     
    James Mangold: Johnny! Helena's theme is great. How about we do ONE theme for the bad guys and ONE theme for the mcguffin - like in the other films? 
     
    John Williams: Yes! Yes! Yes! (laughs manically)
  23. Haha
    TheUlyssesian got a reaction from Chen G. in Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (Disney Records Original Soundtrack Album) - NO FILM SPOILERS!   
    😃
     
    James Mangold: Johnny! Helena's theme is great. How about we do ONE theme for the bad guys and ONE theme for the mcguffin - like in the other films? 
     
    John Williams: Yes! Yes! Yes! (laughs manically)
  24. Haha
    TheUlyssesian got a reaction from Courtney Sees Ghosts in Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (Disney Records Original Soundtrack Album) - NO FILM SPOILERS!   
    😃
     
    James Mangold: Johnny! Helena's theme is great. How about we do ONE theme for the bad guys and ONE theme for the mcguffin - like in the other films? 
     
    John Williams: Yes! Yes! Yes! (laughs manically)
  25. Haha
    TheUlyssesian got a reaction from Taikomochi in Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (Disney Records Original Soundtrack Album) - NO FILM SPOILERS!   
    😃
     
    James Mangold: Johnny! Helena's theme is great. How about we do ONE theme for the bad guys and ONE theme for the mcguffin - like in the other films? 
     
    John Williams: Yes! Yes! Yes! (laughs manically)
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