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Ludwig

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Everything posted by Ludwig

  1. Ludwig
    It starts by outlining the same notes as the ostinato, E-D#-C, then continues adding notes downward: B-A-G#-G-F. It continues down after that too, but gets very hard to pick out. I can hear D for sure below the F, but I'd guess there's E in there and maybe D# as well. I think there's a C# after the D. Then the high register adds Bb, and probably other notes beneath it like A and maybe others. The most interesting thing about these glassy lines is that they begin in a comprehensible, tonal way, basically outlining the A minor chord suggested at the opening with the ostinato and bass pedal on A. Then it gradually becomes an atonal mass. Nice technique to express either the mystery of Harmonica or the insanity of Frank.
  2. Ludwig
    Another obvious one: Richard Strauss, Tod und Verklärung, @12:42 - 12:49 Williams, Superman Flying/Love Theme, @3:22 http://youtu.be/O57UKmtDGgg It's not just the melody that's similar here, but, more strikingly, the harmony, which in the first two chords has the Lydian I-II progression that has become a Williams trademark. Williams adds the "tail" that the melody seems to need to become a true theme. Great little tail it is too.
  3. Ludwig
    "The Pheasant Hunt" from Empire of the Sun (1987) (@ 38:34) http://youtu.be/F58xBssyCZA "The Transgression" from Once Upon a Time in the West (1968): http://youtu.be/GZUN1wRKE88 This one's extremely close. Williams obviously had the latter in mind when writing the cue.
  4. Ludwig
    No, I'm TheGreyPilgrim in disguise.
  5. Ludwig
    IF YOU'VE COME HERE TO DISCUSS THE NATURE OF PLAGIARISM VS. HOMAGE, THIS IS NOT THE RIGHT THREAD! TURN BACK NOW, NOW I SAY!!! There, I said it. Now let's have a nice little thread about things in Williams that sound like other things you've heard. (Obvious ones encouraged, even ones many of us already know. Think of this as a reference catalogue for us JWFanners.) If possible, YouTube videos with timestamps would be best (and titles for the videos in the post as well since they may well disappear from YouTube at some point). Go!
  6. Ludwig
    Intangibles are the most interesting things to discuss. Bring it on.
  7. Ludwig
    The subtlety of Saito's theme makes me wonder, what is the purpose of a theme if it goes unnoticed by the vast majority of audiences? Or does it? I've lately been wondering about the effectiveness of themes and leitmotifs. Even if a viewer does not consciously register that a particular theme goes with a particular character or character in a certain situation, can he or she register the theme's association subconsciously? In other words, can we "feel" the (usual) emotional similarity of a theme's various statements and therefore better understand a character's motivations even if we don't actively recognize the link between all the statements? Thoughts?
  8. Ludwig
    I've just been through Inception thoroughly for its score. Excellent work, GP! I agree with your analysis here and find it very insightful. The only thing I might build on is the theme you identify as the "riff". That one I'd call the "team in control" theme, since it is used in situations where Cobb's team has the upper hand and, at least for the time being, has things under their control. Interesting how Zimmer (or "Zimmer" as the case may be) applies themes to characters (or groups or characters) in particular emotional situations rather than more simply just to the characters themselves, no matter what situation they may be in (and use thematic transformation to express their changing emotional states). I didn't pay much attention to Saito's theme, maybe because it is very subdued in the score. It just sounded like generic background music to me, but it seems that it is motivic as you point out. Anyway, great work, and many thanks!
  9. Ludwig
    All of us have come to be aware of the composer at some point, so my question really has to do with the impact of one or more of Williams' cues on you. Whether you knew at the time is moot since that's a given.
  10. Ludwig
    Yes, I think we could combine the two views and say that the hexatonic scale is a subset of the G major/minor harmonic complex, as though Horner was thinking of how to derive different types of secundal harmony (as a diatonic scale and a hexatonic scale) from one basic superset.
  11. Ludwig
    Well, I did say it was a "fuzzy" relaionship, didn't I? But yes, I did misread it. So let's try that again... For me, a polychord has to be audible as such, and since it just sounds like a mass of clusters, I'd be inclined to call it something else. Probably best is a scale interpretation in this case, the strings playing a G major harmonic scale (all but the C is present), which grates against the G minor of the brass with the B-Bb conflict - a true fuzzy relationship. So, it creates even more bite at this pivotal moment, especially with B being the highest note.
  12. Ludwig
    Interesting - Cantina Band is quite unlike most Williams, but it's right up there for me as well as a cue that made me take notice of his music early on. Is it perhaps that it was different from the usual great orchestral stuff that grabbed your attention?
  13. Ludwig
    Agreed about the brass G minor harmonic scale as a cluster. I think I would take the strings as a kind of fuzzy relationship - that is, we almost have two half-diminished seventh chords a semitone apart played at the same time: D-F#-G#-B, and A-D-Eb-G, which is almost A-C-Eb-G Placing both chords in root position more easily shows the semitone relationship between the two chords: G#-B-D-F# A - D-Eb-G ( C ) The D is the odd note out, as it "should" have been a C to make the relationship consistent, but here it adds more bite to the sound at an appropriate moment.
  14. Ludwig
    They'd be palmed clusters, in which case they'd most likely be notated with a vertical bar in the musical staff rather than individual notes. After all, it's not the notes that matter but the overall effect. What's for certain is that they're in a particular rhythm, so not aleatoric, which means that at least one variable is left to chance or the whim of the performer, but some kind of notated cluster in triplet rhythms.
  15. Ludwig
    More than one each for sure.
  16. Ludwig
    I'm going to bet there will be yet another Bat-theme with a strong use of the flat 6 degree of the minor mode, probably in the melody (maybe a two-note motive like A-Bb in Hans' beloved D minor, or even a three-note motive of say D-Bb-A going down, which would be another homage to Elfman's theme) and likely in the harmony as well. The old I-VI in minor never seems to go out of fashion. I could also see Hans doing something a little different harmonically, maybe a little Phrygian progression like I-bII in minor. But I'll stop here - I'm probably giving the man ideas, lol.
  17. Ludwig
    Well, he obviously means... um... er... well... :conf: :conf:
  18. Ludwig
  19. Ludwig
    Perhaps Doug himself can clarify this point here on the board... My guess is that he's implying a major/minor duality, A-natural suggesting F major, A-flat F minor. That would make sense with the positive/negative interpretation of his salvation/autophobia.
  20. Ludwig
    The theme definitely makes use of polytonality. The first sustained chord is Fm of course, but the melody circles around the notes B, C, and A. At first, it sounds as though the B is a non-chord note resolving to C, and the A creates the impression of an F major chord simultaneously with the minor one. But the persistence of the B-natural sounds odd as well since it is foreign to the implied F minor key (B-flat being what we would expect). Then the sustained chord drops to Em, and everything becomes clearer. The B, C, and A over the first chord were actually part of the E minor scale. You can hear this if you hold an Em chord from the beginning while playing the whole melody overtop. It all falls into place. So I would agree, Glóin, that E minor is the key of greater weight here. (In this respect, I would respectfully disagree with Doug here that the initial melody does not actually signify A minor as he argues but, as it becomes clear, E minor.) Surely, this kind of technique has to do with the nature of the ring itself. At first it appears to be something strangely alluring - like the major/minor ambiguity. But as one gazes more at it, one falls under its evil power - like the revealing of the theme's "true" and purely minor key which, appropriately enough, is achieved by "falling" a semitone down.
  21. Ludwig
    I think we're on the same page, it's just a matter of how specific one wants to get in assigning categories. Myself, I like systems that lie at a midpoint between simple and complex - simple enough to be easy to remember but complex enough to allow for nuance and differentiation where it seems significant. When I call Star Wars a blended score, I refer to precisely the two styles you mention - symphonic (or classical Hollywood - what you call Old Hollywood Romantic) and modern (in the sense of modernist - or what you call avant-garde). Of course the symphonic is the stronger style in the score, so you could call it "blended symphonic", for example. Something like Gladiator combines elements of new age, electronica, and the traditional symphonic sound (and like Star Wars, has direct references to Holst's Mars), so again I'd call it a blended score. But it's the component styles that differentiate it from Star Wars. To me, categorizing scores by their overall approach first, then their component styles, is the most productive way to understand them because scores tend to be so varied. If we categorized by component styles, we'd end up with so many categories that the whole practice would be too complex. Your solution is certainly simple enough to be useful, but I prefer something that allows for somewhat more complexity, so that we can differentiate between scores in the same large category by pointing to the component styles. Or maybe that's something you would do as well, but in describing the score in prose rather than through a label or some sort.
  22. Ludwig
    Film music is often so variegated that it becomes difficult to discuss style as we understand it in the classical world. One can find relatively pure examples of one style or another, for example the modernist style of Goldsmith's Planet of the Apes. But especially from the 1950s on, there are so many scores that defy this kind of categorization that we are forced to consider style in film music in a broader way. My own belief is that it is best to tease out the various styles contained within a score then assess its overall approach, which I would call a "type" of score. So "styles" here would be the same as in classical music, but widened to include others such as classical Hollywood (which might more succinctly be called the "symphonic" style), various popular styles (pop, rock, jazz, folk), and indigenous (suggesting a particular people). If any of these styles predominates a film, we would just call the score's type the same thing. So Planet of the Apes would of course be a modernist type of score because it employs that style for the entire film. But when there is more than one style in a score, we can distinguish between those scores that juxtapose different styles (i.e., they are heard at different times) and those that fuse them together (at the same time) - I would call the former "eclectic" scores and the latter "blended" scores. I would make this distinction because I think there is a significant difference in approach between, say, Star Wars and Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban, even though both make use of classical Hollywood practices (symphonic style). Then we could add to the list "adapted" scores composed of pre-existing material. All in all, then, we could have seven main score types to cover most bases: - Symphonic - Popular - Modern - Indigenous - Eclectic - Blended - Adapted I haven't seen other breakdowns of style in books, so I came up with this to try to explain film music styles.
  23. Ludwig
    Here is the last installment of my three-part series on Morricone's classic score for Once Upon a Time in the West: http://www.filmmusicnotes.com/ennio-morricones-score-for-once-upon-a-time-in-the-west-part-3-of-3-the-frankharmonica-theme/ Since I first heard of his "micro-cell" technique (explained in the post), I have found it in many other of his cues. Interesting technique that I haven't seen in other film composers' music. Enjoy!
  24. Ludwig
    You appear with the tedious inevitability of an unloved season. You talk and you talk but you have no... oh wait.
  25. Ludwig
    It's now available for purchase! http://www.omnimusicpublishing.com/
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