Ludwig
-
Posts
1,069 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
13
Posts posted by Ludwig
-
-
Nice to see you're chipping away at this project, Ted. A couple of things I notice in your transcription:
I'm comparing this with the sketch of this passage and notice that in the top example, the D#s, F#s, and A#s should be spelled with flats, This makes it much clearer that the chord at the beginning of each bar is a G minor chord, and that that last chord in each bar is part of an E-flat minor chord. Also, the top note in each triplet in the first system isn't there in the recording, nor in the sketch. And in the second system, the strings don't go that high - have a look at p. 67 of the PDF sketch and you'll see what I mean. The brass bit should all be close-position chords going from G minor to B-flat minor with the melody you have.
Just thought I would add these observations to help you out.
About scales. I don't hear a governing scale in a passage like this. I hear it rather as polytonal. G minor is the overriding tonality, especially because it is persistently in the bass as a pedal (not shown in the example above). Then there are the E-flat minor chords at the end of the first two bars (heard more in the winds).
The strings have semitone neighbours to the B-flat and D of the G minor chord. That's why we get A-C# after Bb-D, and in the 3rd and 4th bars, Eb-Cb going to Bb-D. That's how I understand it, anyway.
-
Even though it's no surprise that Life of Pi seems poised to win the Oscar, I was able to dig up some interesting evidence to back this up. (It ain't JUST a gut feeling, much as I like gut feelings!).
Have a look:
http://www.filmmusicnotes.com/oscar-prediction-2013-best-original-score/
-
My vote is for Life of Pi both for "should win" and "will win". Don't get me wrong - I thought JW's job on Lincoln was absolutely first-rate, but it wasn't the kind of film that gave much space for the music. And I think that should be part of the award since film is a collaborative art. Hence my vote for Pi.
-
i guess we say borrowed when we have many chords that occur naturally in a mode, and say altered more for individual chords that just appear briefly? but again then we can say that "this chord is borrowed from that mode"..
That's how I would think of it, though borrowed chords can also be thought of as altered, so they're not mutually exclusive.
One things I'd like to draw attention to is how Williams loves minor chords with the third in the bass (1st inversion), usually in open voicing. It creates a great sense of weariness, yearning and poignancy.
I feel this way about all 1st inversion major and minor chords if they're spaced widely with only 4ths/5ths in the upper parts - love it.
Any other examples you had in mind?
-
i guess everyone will interprete all this passage in tonic with altered chords, right? (no re-interpretation in mediant of some chords?)
the culprit here for the altered chords is the sol#, but we can't say that the theme is in Lydian (re-mi-fa#-sol#-la-si-do#). It doesn't sound Lydian..Great example. Part of the confusing thing about this passage is that we like to think of a theme as being in a certain key or certain mode. Here, the G fluctuates from G# to G natural, so we can't say it's any single mode.
But since it comes back to D as a tonic chord after only 4 bars, it seems to me that D governs the whole passage. The chords with G# are a bit like secondary dominant chords - they are borrowed from another mode but they don't undermine the feeling that the original tonic is still in place.
So I would say that the passage borrows from the Lydian mode on D then goes to the D major scale. It's a mix of both but D remains the tonic throughout, so you could say the theme is in D Lydian/Major. I know it doesn't sound like the Lydian mode because we don't have the more familiar I-II# progression as in other cases, but if you're going to say D is the tonic throughout, you kind of have to say that the mode is Lydian, IMO.
-
With less than a week before the Oscars, I thought the time is ripe for a poll. But here, you don't have to decide between what you think WILL win and what you think SHOULD win.
Have your say...
-
Haven't seen too much discussion of Dario Marianelli's score for Anna Karenina, but here's my take:
http://www.filmmusicnotes.com/oscar-nominees-2013-dario-marianellis-score-for-anna-karenina/
I think it's strongest points are its long, lyrical melodies. Not only are they great to listen to, he actually combines them together in counterpoint in several places - cool!
-
That sounds like it's incredibly difficult to make it sound right, and not very unlistenable.
Are there rules to this, meaning that the scales used are related in a certain way? For example, I can't imagine B major sounding to good together with C major.
The only consistency I hear in most bitonal music is that the two chords tend to have semitone clashes and be distantly related (the key signatures would have many sharps or flats different between them). Yes, a relationship like B major with C major is a common one. So any two chords that bring this about seem to be the most used.
In the bit from Star Wars I was talking about, the bitonal music starts with a D-flat major chord in the lower parts combined with a C major chord in the upper parts. So each note in one chord clashes by a semitone with a note in the other. Hear it in this clip in 1:16-1:18:
The next "polychord" (combination of chords) is an A major chord in the lower parts combined with the same C major chord in the upper parts. So now, there is only one semitone clash (between C# and C). This is in the last clip from 1:19-1:20.
And the last polychord combines an A-flat augmented chord in the lower parts with, again, the same C major chord in the upper parts. There is now a semitone clash between A-flat and G. This happens in the clip above from 1:21-1:23.
The trick in keeping bitonal chords from sounding awful is to keep the chords in different registers so we can hear each one as a chord and not as a mish-mash of dissonance. Williams does that brilliantly here.
-
Yes, now that I hear it again, there is a major 2nd on the bottom of the first chord, and a G in the second chord. But I disagree that there's a C in the first chord - that makes it sound like some kind of G7 chord with C suspension, which I don't hear. I think it's essentially a D minor chord with added dissonance.
Something else I noticed is that the voices in the lower parts have more dissonance than I initially thought. More than that, one dissonance seems to stay the same through the first five chords - the G-A. The chords are basically tonal chords but with added dissonance - and diatonic dissonance at that. It's hard to pick out the individual notes, but when you try different combinations together (I'm using Sibelius), it sounded very close, if not identical, to the original when I put more dissonance in the lower parts.
Here's my revised version - see what you think:
It won't let me post the audio here too, so let me try it in another post below...
This isn't great audio quality, but it's the only way I could get it to upload, so here it is...Excerpt from CEO3K - 2nd draft.mp3
-
I've only just read through this thread and think it's a great idea. I have a couple of suggestions - let me know what you think.
First, I think it would be useful to have a "Style of the Score" section on each entry that discusses general points like
-harmonic style (tonal, atonal, modal, etc.)
- melodic style (intervals emphasized, whether there is a predominance of themes or not)
- instrumentation
- use of diegetic music (occurs in the fictional world of the film, heard by the characters) vs. non-diegetic music (not occurring in the fictional world of the film)
- use of original vs. pre-existing music
These sorts of things - you could have more or less depending on the score. None of these require too much detail, but I think something like this would give people a sense of what the score's about, musically speaking. And it would also be a good summary of the character of the score. It might be a good way to describe how one score differs from the next.
Second, I could add a sentence or two about the musical features of the score's themes that contribute to the theme's emotional character. Just simple things, nothing too theoretical. Things like use of dotted rhythms to suggest a military feel, or rising fifths to suggest a heroic character. That sort of thing. Not too much, but just enough to give an idea of how the composer makes the theme sound like it does.
I would be happy to add what I can - I have had extensive training in composition and music theory, and these kinds of things would not take long to add for a single score at a time.
-
So, polytonal means that more than one key is played at the same time?
Exactly. But it doesn't have to be done with two or more different chords at the same time. Herrmann, for example, often sounds a chord (usually major or minor) overtop of a note that has nothing to do with the chord. The chord suggests the tonic chord of one key and the single note suggests another key. Actually, he usually strings several bars like this together so that the single notes together suggest a major or minor chord when played successively.
In cases like this, it's usually considered "bitonal" because there are only two keys. But there can be more than two, in which case it's polytonal - say, with three different chords sounded at the same time, or two chords together with a different bass note. That sort of thing. There is a good example of bitonal music at the end of the Star Wars introduction, where the scrolling text fades away into blackness.
Polytonal music generally relies on the familiar chords of major, minor, dominant 7ths, and so on, whereas atonal music generally relies on chords that emphasize dissonant intervals like 2nds, 4ths, tritones, and 7ths.
-
Here's what I got. It's not perfect, but I think the harmonies are basically correct, but there may be a note missing somewhere in the middle. I haven't indicated which instrument does what because that's damn near impossible in this kind of large orchestra recording.
I've also attached an audio file, but it's just piano. Kind of lame, but you get the picture anyway.
By the way, I threw in the 7th chord for free!
-
it's a B section in a concert version/arrangement of the main theme, but not a B section of the main theme itself. I don't know how to explain it...
eg. like - I don't know - in beethoven's 5th, first movement.
we've got the first theme (in minor with the famous motif), and then the second theme (in major).
The second theme is not a B section of the first theme, but it's a B section of the exposition during the movement..
How is the B section defined in the concert version? Double-bar lines?
The Beethoven example proves my point exactly. The first and second themes there are in different keys - the first in C minor, the second in E-flat major. In the Williams examples, the "second themes" are in the same key as the first, so I consider them part of the same overall theme.
B sections also usually use the same motives as the A section. So in Raiders, we get the same dotted rhythm as a pickup to all the downbeats, just like in the A section. And the same thing happens in the Superman March, where there the iambic (long-short) rhythm that opens the A section returns to start the B section and is heard throughout that section as well.
-
the passage in Heartbeeps is a B section of a theme in ternary form as we said.
the themes you've mentioned I believe are second themes, not B sections of a theme..
eg. about the indiana jones, williams himself said he had 2 themes and didn't know which to use, and spielberg said to him to use both. so he used both..
although to tell you the truth, I don't see it how the 2nd one could stand on its own!
Yes, I've heard Spielberg say this in one of the documentaries. But the two themes are in the same key within the piece. If a theme is going to be considered separate from another in a musical form like a march, it is always in a different key.
Why wouldn't this be a B section?
-
Hello Ludwig again..
I still couldn't hear the I, so i went back to see all the details of the instruments.
As i said before, i notated only the important parts, because I thought all the chords were obvious, except for the one in question.
Well, now i found it.. it was a bit easy to miss..
at bar 3 with the III (or I), it has glisses up and down of harp, in the scale of B minor. I mean, it notates the notes exactly (aeolian mode of B) AND it says above "Bm"!
so, for a second there, i started doubting, but now i stick again to III.
plus, since the theme "rests" for a bit, melody wise and length-wise on the III twice, that's why I thought we can say that we have for a brief span of time, the region of mediant.
anyway, doesn't matter much..
the one that matters to me most is the other chord, but I guess I'll leave it for now..
I had a look at the score, and there's no scale of B minor in the piano (harp is scratched out and piano is left in) where you mention. And I don't see any "Bm" marking either. Is that in a piano version you have? If so, that would be someone else's interpretation of the harmony. And in jazz lead sheets, chord symbols change from one arranger to the next.
At the same spot (bar 55), there is an arpeggio in the piano and clarinet F#-B-D-G, G-F#, which is repeated in the next bar with the addition of more winds and the celeste. You say the G is an appoggiatura, but it seems to me that Williams goes out of his way to emphasize the G - he has it on a strong beat and even has it accented. And the second time this bar comes around, in bar 59, we actually reach the G in the melody and in all the arpeggios in the accompaniment. Notice how the melody reaches this G as a goal note - from E in bar 57, to F# in bar 58, and finally to G in bar 60. For these reasons, it sounds very much like a part of the chord to me and not merely a dissonant note that is not to be heard as a goal.
But I suppose the biggest piece of evidence is the progression itself. We have IV-VII then the chord in question. Well, IV is subdominant, and VII is dominant, so we are certainly expecting to hear tonic in the next bar, and indeed he gives it to us. Sure, the root is not a sustained note in the chord, but as I said before, a rootless chord is not uncommon in jazz. As I've pointed out in a PM, Mark Levine shows how this same rootless chord can be tonic in his book The Jazz Piano Book (p. 43, Fig. 7-5).
I think it matters because it would be another way that Williams tends to use a lot of tonic in his B sections. Think of the Raiders March or the Superman March, which have long tonic pedals. This chord would fall into the same category in my opinion.
the theme is in D Dorian
how would you interprete those last chords of the theme?
i can think of this for the time being:
D Dorian F Dorian D minor
I - II - I -II -V- IV(= VI) - V
As for your 3rd example, this looks good to me. You just left out the last I chord, where the phrase ends.
I would add that the entire progression seems to be motivated not so much by harmonic function but by parallelism. The first two chords move in parallel, as do the 3rd and 4th, and the 6th and 7th. The 5th chord (C minor) is almost in parallel except that the following chords are major instead of minor. But it's still a first-inversion chord in parallel.
It's really only at the beginning and end of the phrase where we hear any sort of harmonic functions in D. It starts on tonic, then ends with dominant-tonic. Probably the F minor chord is tonic in F Dorian as you say, but the other chords in between seem to me to be sequential and not functional. In other words, their purpose is just to move towards a goal rather than make us expect any particular chord.
-
Again, I think this is John Williams jazz and pop background showing, along with his admiration of the late Alex North (who'd passed away two years before). I think a clue is in what Williams writes for the synthesiser line in R3P2 The Dinosaurs (when we first see the Brachiosaurus) - "Very deep pulse - Between 'pop' and religioso."
Fascinating. It's truly amazing how Williams is able to blend both the pop/jazz and classical traditions together so seamlessly. I suppose that's partly what makes Williams' style so unique and therefore recognizable. Composers are usually either one or the other with very little overlap.
-
Nice work to all. Below I've added my analysis to Prometheus'. Just to explain the notation...
What I noticed is that there are a lot of strange chords in this theme. But then, there are really only 3 functions a chord can have in a key: tonic (T), subdominant (S), or dominant (D). In themes from classical music, the tonic function is usually "prolonged" or stretched out by intervening chords, then there is a cadence. Williams does the same thing here, but with a lot of substitute chords. Of course, in classical music, tonic, subdominant, and dominant functions are usually given by the I, IV, and V chords, but as wanner251 mentioned, the last chord in the theme is a V substitute. Basically, substitute chords have two notes (perhaps altered with accidentals) in common with the original chord. Here are all the substitute chords in a key:
vi - tonic substitute
ii - subdominant substitute
VII# - dominant substitute
III# (= V/vi) - dominant substitute
The III6 chords in the passage I regard as passing chords because of the passing motion in the bass, so I give them a (P) marking.
I find it fascinating that there is only a single I chord, two IV chords, and absolutely no V chords! Apart from I, V is the most common chord in classical music (hence its name as the dominant), so it's very odd not to see any here, and odd to have so few tonic and subdominant chords. Williams uses substitute chords instead. This is probably what gives it a sound that is so unique but still somehow coherent and solidly supported.
Great example, Prometheus. Thanks for sharing!
-
@ Ludwig.
1) Yes i have that book, but i find it a bit difficult to read, since I'm accustomed to another way of symbols, with the Roman Numerals.
Yes, Roman numerals and jazz symbols don't mix well, but I think it would at least help explain what the root is when you have a lot of added notes in chords, as happens so often in Williams.
2) Well, yes, i understand this thing with the functions (eg. 3-4 chords in a row maybe have just one function), but I wanted desperately to assign a specific chord to it, since I must come up with conclusions about which chords Williams generally uses etc.. And i thought maybe that was something, if i ever find it again in another theme..
(eg. one of my findings is about a VII chord from mixolydian that he uses in a lot of themes)
I see. Well, if you see the mystery chord as I do, couldn't you call it a contrapuntal chord and give it a label based on how the voices move or how it is used? Something like the "passing 6/4" (P6/4) or "cadential 6/4" (C6/4)? Maybe in this case, "passing #iv" (P#iv)?
3) about the modulation and temporary tonic thing:
I guess I didn't put it exactly right.
I meant it with regions, like it's in Schoenberg's Structural Functions of Harmony that prometheus mentioned..
One example:
As you see, we have a passage that starts in the tonic G minor, and then some chords are re-interpreted in the Mediant, and others in subdominant.
maybe i should put it that way too?
that we have those chords that are reinterpreted in the Mediant (instead of saying B minor)
I'm not sure how I should say it, maybe i should consult my teacher..
Since I'm studying only the Williams' Themes, and of course in the short boundaries of a theme there isn't usually any modulation to be found, maybe I should write it like this, instead of writing X minor/major..
The mistake was mine, calling this "modulation" (which necessarily involves a cadence) instead of "tonicization" or "regions" or something less strong. I understand exactly what you mean, I just respectfully disagree. I don't hear any mediant region in the theme at all because everything (except the mystery chord) fits neatly into the G major scale (the mediant would have C#s and A#s if you ask me). But then, your analysis reflects that since you keep your Roman numerals in relation to G. It sounds like you want to show a B minor influence in the passage, which would require symbols in relation to that tonic at some point, no? Of course, you could show it like Schoenberg does, with different levels for different keys.
Aside: If I can add one more thing to the interpretation of "I" instead of "III" in bars 3 and 6, I would point to the melody. Notice that in bars 3 and 5, the last note in the melody is a quick eighth note that anticipates the chord on the following downbeat. In bar 2, we get almost the same thing, but the melody drops down a 4th instead of repeating the same G. I hear the eighth note G in bar 2 an anticipation of the chord in the next bar, as these quick notes are in the rest of the passage. So I hear the G being prolonged through bar 3 as well, which to me helps hear tonic here. In bar 6, it is as if the melody "realizes" what was only implied in bar 3 by actually sounding the G after the anticipation. And to me, this G is a chord note, not an appoggiatura - after all, anticipations always resolve to chord notes. You may still disagree but I wanted to give you a full picture of how I hear this theme.
Can I suggest we next look at Williams's island fanfare theme from JURASSIC PARK? It's a very interesting example, and contains a classic use of one of Williams's favourite chords - the Lydian II.
I, for one, would love that. Why don't you start a new thread on it so it doesn't get buried here?
-
Very nice review and analysis, Mikko! I enjoyed it very much. You draw out some interesting points, like the Freedom's Call theme providing a link between the public and private side of Lincoln's life - great stuff.
What do you make of so many of the themes starting with a rising broken triad with precisely the same do-mi-so scale degrees? I thought it striking but never had time to fully explore it.
Thank you.
And I do briefly touch upon the fact that the themes seem to share a common root, the rising broken triad as you say, but I guess it is either conscious or subconscious way for Williams to link them together and also link them to the American musical vernacular as he hears it.
As I have said numerous times allusion is one of Williams' fortes, to quote recognizable elements in a given musical style while remaining original in the actual content, which is of course a very great asset to a film composer. Even with some nods or homages at Aaron Copland, intentional or unintentional, his themes do bear the instantly recognizable Americana imprint from the first notes. Williams is very humble and unpretentious about his process when he says he doesn't do a lot or any musical research on his work but I think he succeeded in peeling away another layer from his earlier Americana writing to achieve a certain level of simplicity in Lincoln that would address both the time and place of the film and feel familiar and suitable at the same time. Whatever his process is, he in my opinion succeeded in capturing the essential elements of the story and the musical style in his score.
I agree that the broken triads have to do with capturing an American folk style. And I'm glad you raise the point of Williams being original while quoting elements of a style since I think the links between the themes would absolutely have to be intentional with a composer of Williams' stature.
It makes me wonder whether it's something of a Williams fingerprint in some film scores. I've noticed something similar in E.T., where almost all the themes begin with a rising 5th. Again, I could never come up with a good explanation for why those themes should be that way. After all, they represent different things (say, Keys and E.T.). The best I can come up with is that they serve to unify the themes of the film, as if to say "these are all E.T. themes", or "these are all Lincoln themes" or what have you.
-
Very nice review and analysis, Mikko! I enjoyed it very much. You draw out some interesting points, like the Freedom's Call theme providing a link between the public and private side of Lincoln's life - great stuff.
What do you make of so many of the themes starting with a rising broken triad with precisely the same do-mi-so scale degrees? I thought it striking but never had time to fully explore it.
-
Just finished an analysis of Skyfall - http://www.filmmusicnotes.com/oscar-nominees-2013-thomas-newmans-score-for-skyfall/
Opinions on this score - at least in this forum - seem pretty divided. Some seem to love it, some hate it, some say it's okay but nothing special. Funny that whenever I take a good listen to a score, I always find a lot more things to like than I thought I would, and my respect for it goes up. I think it must be tough writing a Bond score because you have to have both old and new ideas and not overdo it either way. Very tough.
-
you still hear the III as a tonic without root, even in the music?
I don't hear it at all.. I hear minor there...
by the way, I didn't mean that the theme made a modulation to B minor.
the theme is still in G major all the way from start to finish.. I just used B minor to interprete those bars.
Yes, tonic. Even without the root. This whole passage strikes me as very jazzy in nature (almost everything's a seventh or ninth chord!) and rootless chords are not at all uncommon in jazz, so the III in bar 3 would still strike me as a GM7add9 without the root.
I think there's a tendency in harmonic analysis (Lord knows, I've been guilty of it) to get hung up on trying to decide on what chord is sounding when the more fundamental question is what harmonic function is sounding. Tonal music can basically be boiled down to the three functions of subdominant, dominant, and tonic. So if we say that the chord in bar 3 of your second example is III, which I can of course understand from the standpoint of chord construction, than we should be able to say what function the chord has. It doesn't really matter to me whether you call it III or I, but I think it's indisputable that the chord has tonic function. After all, it comes after a VII chord, which is dominant function.
Similarly, I consider the III chord you have in bar 6 to be tonic in function as well. There, I think it's even stronger because you get the root in the melody. The F# that follows is, to me, a chord tone in GM7.
The mystery chord doesn't have a strong sense of harmonic function (at least not to my ears), which is why I say it's a contrapuntal formation. Perhaps it has a hint of subdominant function, or the
IVpointed out by Prometheus. But it's by no means clear, which is certainly why we're all still talking about it.I had a feeling you wouldn't like the term "modulation" for the B minor you mentioned. Okay, let's call it a temporary tonic then. Again, I'm not so concerned with what to call it as how to understand it. To say it can be explained through B minor means that we must hear B minor as a tonic somewhere. But nowhere do we have a chord that suggests its dominant. At best, what we have is, in bars 2-6, an alternation of subdominant and tonic functions in that key. If the music is actually going to pass through another key, though, it had better use a dominant function. Otherwise, it's not enough to really get the sound of the old key out of our ears. Rather, it gets swallowed up by the old key and we're more likely to hear it as still in the old key.
By the way, there's a really good book on jazz theory in case you're interested. I think more of that would apply to Williams' music than traditional harmony textbooks. The book is The Jazz Theory Book by Mark Levine. Totally, totally awesome! Especially if you play piano.
-
My bad. I meant V of B minor for the strange chord in bar 5, not V/V. It seems to me that to be V/V, we really need to have its leading note, E#. With E-natural, I think the V/V interpretation is rather strained. But even an interpretation as V is strained as well. Myself, I don't hear this in B minor, but G major all the way through the passage you cite.
That's why I like the more contrapuntal approach. And now that you add the melody, I think it works a little better since the E-G is now filled in with stepwise motion. I suppose I still think it's best to view it as a sort of passing chord.
By the way, when I listen to this passage on the video, I hear both of the III chords as G major chords with added notes. I think the melody supports that in both bars 2-3 and 6. The G in bar 2 seems to be an anticipation of a G that is implied in the next bar.
One other thought. The bass is such a strongly articulated voice here that when we hear C# in bar 5, it's as if we want to hear it as supporting V/V (of G), but once we clearly hear what the upper voices are, that interpretation is either negated or at least altered. So maybe one could say it's a contrapuntal chord with an element of V/V?
-
The only thing about the Hungarian minor interpretation is that is doesn't account for the C-natural we hear in bars 1-2. When C# enters in bar 3, it sounds fresh and wonderfully chromatic. If we hear it as Hungarian minor, this would be just another note in the scale. To me, it sounds like something outside the scale, something chromatic, which is why I would still go with the augmented sixth interpretation myself.
The second example you give is indeed strange. I would say that the whole passage is in G major with no modulation to B minor. I hear the III you have in bar 3 as a G major chord with no root, a common situation in jazz. After all, we still have a dominant chord just before it - VII. The question mark you put under the 5th bar is entirely appropriate. Who knows what this is, really! I suppose there are two options for it:
1) It could be a V/V as you suggest, so without the root or 3rd - strange, if you ask me.
2) A voice-leading chord that has no harmonic function but only a contrapuntal one. In other words, the soprano E goes up to F# (through the appoggiatura G you mentioned), the alto C# goes up to D, the G# up to B, and the bass falls back to B. Again, could we not hear the III as a G major chord with no root? Maybe the G isn't really an appoggiatura after all, but both the G and F# in the melody are chord notes in the G major chord. In that case, it would be an intervening chord between the IV of bar 4 and the possible I of bar 6. You might call it something like a passing chord, something that's "on its way" to the next chord, filling in intervals between the two surrounding chords. With that view, you could say that Williams wanted something chromatic here with smooth voice-leading to the next chord, and that he arranged the result so that it happens to be a triad instead of just some dissonant notes.
As you can probably tell, I like the second interpretation better. But it is very strange. That's the best I can come up with.
asteroid Chase
in JOHN WILLIAMS
Posted
I think this is the case. Have a look at the sketch, which appears to me to be accurate. The clefs aren't notated on p. 67, where your excerpt begins, but it's clear enough from context - the bottom staff is bass clef, the two above it are treble clef, all strings. Oboes and clarinets are in the top staff in the treble clef. No sign of any F in the first chord or D in the second (end of bar). Besides, those notes would give a very different sound, and it's not present in the recording, so it must just be a mistake.
Well, sure. But why call it Hungarian minor when that scale is contradicted in the 3rd and 4th bars? To hear it that way would mean that all the notes except the Cb are in the scale, so that note should stand out. I don't think it does (any more than other notes). I mean, if a passage is in a key, for example, that's to say we can hear any foreign notes as being just that. To me, all the neighbour notes to the Bb-D (so the A-C# and the Cb-Eb) are equally foreign to the main thing in this passage - the G minor chord.
Everyone seems to want to say what "scale" these brilliant Williams passages use, but there is always something to contradict that view. I think we should consider the possibility that the notes he writes are governed more by one or more chords rather than scales.