Barnald

It would be hilarious now if Doug revealed our suspicions were incorrect, and that the composition he was referring to never made the Rarities disc.

Of course!

Well the shelf design was selected by him. If he selected the box design as well I'd happily pay $1000

I always assumed it was Sammath Naur

Even when released you'll be looking at $400-500, at best.

I think the RRP on that deluxe Harry Potter set from a couple of years back was about $500, but it could be had for quite a reasonable price in the UK at one point. Of course, it remains to be seen if Warner will release this in the UK. If it looks as good as it sounds, and went down to about £150 at some point, I might consider it.

I'm quite into Blu-ray/DVD tat (so long as I like the film - I still have the Taiwan wooden chest set for LOTR) but this is absurdly expensive. And yes, knowing a proper ultimate boxset will most likely come in future makes it an even riskier prospect.

Stop lying.

Gondorian you say? I'd post the Leonardo DiCaprio 'Curiosity' gif/meme but I'd rather you didn't all hate me (at least any more than you do now).

Did the 2012 composition involve the same themes? I guess what I'm getting at is, was it substantially different?

I trawled through an old discussion and found this post from Jim (I hope he won't mind me re-posting it here), who also confirmed that the orchestral bits are tracked from DoS: And because that post contains the word 'contrapuntal', you can be sure I didn't make it up. I think he clarified that the scene wasn't any longer when Shore scored it.

Ah so about half that then? (I can't remember how long that scene is, though could it be possible that Shore scored it when it was longer, with the full Gandalf recital?)

Was it really choral only? I really can't wait to hear it someday (surely we will?). Can you tell us how long it is Jim? I recall something like four minutes being mentioned?

That's our first actual confirmation of the windlance stuff! Another set-up from DoS without any pay off in BotFA (and one I forgot to mention on the other thread). Jim - do you happen to know of any other reasonably significant BotFA bits that were scored and yet not restored for the EE? I've probably asked you this before, forgive me if I have.

You almost have to laugh at such a decision (else you'd probably cry)

That's a point. The epilogue isn't necessary of course - that's just personal preference. I'd still love to see the ROTK one someday.

I don't really see the 'earning' argument myself (I guess I'm fairly myopic when it comes to these things - as in I wanted to see it, that's all that matters), but if the EE's are truly for the fans, and disregard the typical cinematic rules of pacing and whatnot, then I can't see why some of that wasn't included (providing it was filmed). Watching the DoS extras, I knew something was up when Jackson said he didn't reinstate the proper introduction to Thranduil because it harmed the pacing (or something like that). Surely that's not an overriding concerns with the EE's? I thought the logic was that they were for the fans, and the fans would have appreciated something like that drawn (seemingly) from the book. You got the impression with the LOTR EE's they set about adding as much as possible, even if it meant harming the pacing or ruining certain reveals (like the Corsairs for example).

I think most fans of the films did. I don't get the criticism at all, but we've all heard it down the years. I can't help but think Jackson was conscious of that with BotFA. No extended farewells with the Dwarves (which we know were filmed); no Bilbo meeting Dain (filmed); no suggestion of Balin's intentions for Moria (I have to think this would have been filmed); no Bilbo giving the necklace to Thranduil; a very brief funeral with very brief Dain 'coronation' which could do with expanding; no Bard coronation; no suggestion of stronger ties between Erebor and Dale going forward; a very short return journey for Bilbo and Gandalf cutting out Beorn's house, Rivendell and the Trollshaws; no final White Council meeting (this would be my invention of course, but it makes sense, tying up some loose ends). I think that's everything. And to be fair, you could fit most of that stuff in about 10-12 minutes, it wouldn't need be long. It would just...help. I didn't even include Gandalf and Balin's visit in this, which seems impossible to include as things stand. I would instead have had a very brief epilogue in which old Bilbo finds among his birthday letters one from Bofur, in which he brings Bilbo up to date with what has happened (we'd see a brief montage, with Nesbitt voiceover). Things like Erebor and Dale prospering (I guess Bain could be ruler now); Beorn and the Beornings; perhaps that they haven't heard from Balin's expedition for some time (just an ominous shot of Balin and co arriving at Moria - we wouldn't see too much); some updates on the the company (Bombur being so fat he requires several Dwarves to carry him would be an obvious visual); maybe something about the Woodland Realm (maybe trade related, showing closer ties). Old Bilbo smiles, puts the letter down, then hears a knock at the door. I don't imagine it would be too intrusive. It would also improve the tone of the climax, which is a little too downbeat and foreboding for my tastes.

Nope. You sense they must have cut something when he's exchanging words with Thorin at the walls. It's probably that which really sends Thorin over the edge (if the Arkenstone business hadn't already). Setting up things without proper resolution was a real problem with BotFA. Thrain, Beorn - it's hard to see why PJ greatly expanded on these elements in DoS EE without resolving them in the third film, even in its EE. Even the Dol Guldur plotline felt unresolved, in need of a brief White Council scene at Rivendell near the end which clarified the situation with the rings, established the intents of various characters (like Radagast and Saruman), and perhaps hinted at things to come. To be quite honest the film could have done with another half hour - or rather, half hour of good material which might have replaced more inconsequential scenes. You can't help but feel there's still stuff on the cutting room floor which would prove very good additions (such as the initial meeting with Thranduil in DoS, or the acorn scene in BotFA), which is frustrating. In addition to lots more Beorn, Boyens also promised a 'lovely' scene between Dain and Bilbo in that Empire podcast. How great it would have been to see Dain ask Bilbo about his share of the treasure, for Bilbo to ask only for the necklace, then give it to Thranduil before he leaves. I think the post-battle section could have done with another 10 minutes at least, but Jackson probably wanted to avoid the ROTK criticisms, even with the EE.

Maybe we'll get the 'Beorn Cut' of BotFA some day. You get the impression the moment they decided to cut him from the front end of the film they couldn't be arsed to bother with him at the end, which is a huge shame. That pre-vis sequence is a real tease.

For various reasons, I'd have much preferred the High Fells scene in AUJ. They could have given Gandalf something else to do in DoS. Maybe his journey through Mirkwood could have been shown, facing a few dangers along the way. Perhaps he stops at Rhosgobel, I don't know. Perhaps they might even have integrated Beorn into this storyline (given that he was supposed to be captured and held in Dol Guldur by the time of the third film).

I refer not to the quality of the films themselves, but rather the recording process, whereby separate blocks were set aside in the spring.

As the situation with the Hobbit EE's demonstrates unfortunately. We probably didn't realize just how spoiled we were at the time, but then the DVD/home video market was much bigger back then.

Well one might argue that PJ's need to change Azog may well have been one of the considerations behind him seeking to lessen additional workload for post AUJ. I mean, it's not like they could jettison their main villain at that stage. I think Manu Bennett was filming stuff in July or August - after the three-film decision - so it could be that they only pursued that option after the fact. Maybe if they had to stick with 2 films they'd have thought 'fuck it' and just gone with what they had.

I still wonder if PJ's decision was largely motivated by a realization that there was no way he was going to get AUJ completed in time (with convincing effects) and so had an idea to shave off some effects heavy sequences (Beorn, spiders, barrels, Dol Guldur?) from the back end of it. I mean, when you think of how hectic the post-production of AUJ was anyway, and how some of the CGI looks a little ropey as it is, doing all that other shit probably would have killed him and most of his crew. And how the hell was he fixing on filming a giant battle so late in the first filming block? He knew it couldn't be done, and so tried to buy time (and it wasn't like the film could be delayed again). He probably looked at it and worked out he could probably stretch it to three films, but that was on the basis only of what he'd filmed already and rough estimates of other bits and pieces, rather than anything fully formed. He probably knew Warner would warm to the three films idea, and I suspect wouldn't have wanted them to panic, so span it as a case of him having enough footage/story for three films. This idea is also given traction by the fact that he admits 'winging it' for most of films 2 and 3. We know he had no idea of a 'climax' for DoS until a late stage, no idea of how the battle would go. Probably a case in 2012 of 'Oh let's make our lives (slightly) easier now and worry about the hard shit when the times comes'. All things that a long and steady pre-production would probably have fixed, but alas it was not be.