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Posts posted by Code 000. Destruct. 0.
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What exactly is the joke meant to be, here?
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That's true, though your prolonged vitriol seems to call for some genuine catharsis, and I believe we can reach it, though the choice is yours. Now stop ruining my final message formatting!
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7 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:
I did reply back then, and the it wasn't a genuine call for understanding.
Wasn't it? I regret that. Let's try again, seriously.
24 minutes ago, HunterTech said:The people who unironically use "woke" on the forum may not be in this thread, but those who argue that a primary aim of modern Disney is to pander (which I don't even think is entirely incorrect) definitely are. And as someone who desperately wants to understand such mindsets in more neutral settings, since I know the gentlemen here can be well spoken, it's just tiring how often certain points are ignored entirely. I understand tastes are different and all that, but I'd love to see how being preachy in older media manages to be less intrusive for some.
I hope that such a conversation can be undertaken in good faith eventually! Alas, I will have no part in it, for soon I will depart this forum, never to return. Anyone sensible reading over what I've said here will surely find it well reasoned and not too far outside of the borders of politesse - at least, not farther than can be understood as inevitable in the heat of the moment - so I need not reiterate or relitigate any of it should anyone else come along and snipe.
To Jason, who I regret I've missed during my brief dips back in but will inevitably read this, I say: sorry about the mess, and I wish you and your family well. May the rest of you have only good fortune, if deserved, and if not...good luck!
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4 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:
You've done that before and I'm not taking the bait!
Have I? It's a shame if you didn't reply then, and now as well. It is not bait, but a genuine call for understanding.
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I've sent you a personal message so we can discuss it further!
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1 minute ago, Jurassic Shark said:
That's the main problem, isn't it?
Why is it that you have such a potent dislike for me, exactly? Have you ever explored it?
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1 hour ago, Not Mr. Big said:
Dixon may not be polite about it but I've gotten really tired of the same culture war grift invading every SW discussion.
I'll readily say I have no interest in being polite about any of this, and again, I do regret that such discussion was so easily flared up here. All I said was that my kids were disappointed! In the back of my head, I thought someone might take issue with how I put it, but again, I hoped not. Yet, here we are. Nothing I said should constitute bait. I just had a feeling it might, and ultimately, I didn't want to not say it out of such an anxiety, because as you said, this is all so tiresome, having to walk on eggshells about certain things. But yes. I'm a big mean scold, as ever. It's my fault.
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1 hour ago, Nick1Ø66 said:
Thank you. This is the very definition of trolling. I appreciate, in this at least, your honesty.I'd say that the act was baiting, not trolling, as I'm not operating in bad faith or simply dropping in to say something absurd without followup - I believe everything I've said, I view it as an earnest conversation, though I did hope it wouldn't happen in the first place. How about this, Hastings Nick: now that you know my statement about stories for women and girls was not, in fact, some dreadful bit of condescending sexism, and that I am not merely preaching my own mannish perspective, would you like to shake on it and make up, and agree that we both simply have the best interests of people in mind? I'm up for that, if that's the reality of the situation. Perhaps I did misjudge you as a slightly more vanilla variant of the anti-woke madness!
1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:I see you're still a short-fused, overreacting moralizer.
Better that than whatever possesses someone to carry a grudge as empty and weird as yours. And for years, mind you! 'Twas you who sniped at me first, out of nowhere, after all this time!
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1 minute ago, Jurassic Shark said:
Look yourself in the mirror, mate.
No, it doesn't really work that way. Of course I intended to argue back if someone chose to argue with me first. I merely stated a thing wondering if it would get any hackles up. It did! But it's nice to see that you're still incapable of thinking clearly where I'm concerned.
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Lord, save your battered people from the scolds who so beset them round.
1 minute ago, Jurassic Shark said:Whoa! It's the Star Wars frickin' disenchantment thread you're talking about here.
Let it be clear that the quote system has falsely made it seem that I think this thread is fun!
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4 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:
I will say, you’ve lived up to every expectation I had of you.
Like what?
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11 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:
I just happen to think, and the data supports this, that the Star Wars stories men and women have connected most with are one and the same.
You know quite well that this is not the conceit causing friction here, but rather your dismissal of the idea of making any art geared towards women as "pandering" and "condescending." This, whether you realize it or not, is in fact redolent of a wider brand of nonsense, and nothing else you've said has really dispelled the suspicion.
11 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:You could start by not immediately assuming the worst, and a bad motivation on the part of the person you're talking to. Given all the above, what conclusions am I to draw about you?
Again, unfortunately nothing you've said has really made me think my initial suspicion was wrong. As for your conclusions about me, I am quite uninterested, because our existences are utterly irrelevant to each other, really.
11 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:But in any event, what I said before stands...we typically avoid this here, and the only variable in this, what was otherwise a fun thread, is you my friend.
Yes. As I said, you're used to one perspective being permitted as a given, and even the faintest hint of dissent called you out to play, which again, is exactly what I expected, I'm sorry to say. I just didn't think you'd go quite this hard at it. That you have cultivated a heterogenous environment, which is "fun" to you and free from such dreaded discussion, does not make it healthy or very in-touch, but I leave such judgements to your surely capable mind.
7 minutes ago, DarthDementous said:Its a shame too because the extremist reaction from the anti-woke crowd tends to cause a doubling down on the other side, blowing apart the middle and leaving the mild audience unengaged in the culture war in the dust
I can understand this to some extent, but I am also wary of it becoming a both-sides dismissal, as if there are equal wrongs coming from both directions. I'm not willing to group the insanity of the one with the more understandable doubling down of the other. The latter is easily ignored. The former is a blight on civilization. I do agree, though, that the former is best starved of air whenever possible.
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1 minute ago, DarthDementous said:
As pointed out above the important nuance being lost here is that the argument isn't that women need something that is specifically made for them to get into it, but rather that having media aimed at that target audience will naturally attract more interest from that target audience
This isn't pandering, at a cold hard business level this is just marketing and cornering sectors. A double standard is being applied here which makes it seem stranger and more duplicituous than it actually is
Not only that, but it's painfully obvious that daring to even feature a woman as a protagonist is a lightning rod for controversy, especially in the video game world. I suspect as many studios are daunted by the promise of that as ones which are willing to wade into it for whatever reason.
- Not Mr. Big and HunterTech
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2 hours ago, Nick1Ø66 said:
And the fact is, box office returns and demo data on things like Star Wars and the MCU don't support your condescending suggestion. Newsflash: The Star Wars & MCU films that are the most popular with men are also the most popular with women
As I said, nearly anyone can enjoy nearly any story. That does not preclude people wanting stories that are more relevant to them, too.
2 hours ago, Nick1Ø66 said:LOL...so since you liked The Acolyte and, anecdotally, women in your life have given you one perspective, then it's reality? Here's news for you: women have their own opinions, they're all different, and the women in your life don't speak for all women. So that's another condescending, sexist notion you have.
Can you point me to where I said that they do? Or are you just making things up to argue against? It's fine to admit that, it's very common.
2 hours ago, Nick1Ø66 said:Had you simply said you liked the show, and left it at that, you and I wouldn't be having this pleasant conversation. But you inevitably went down the road of something something woke and how the rot is everywhere, which, again, is Reddit rubbish. And even good rubbish.
Did I even comment on my own opinion of the show beyond saying I liked it? That clearly wasn't the point I was making, so why would I have left it at that? I believe my point was that my daughters - as well as my wife, and many friends of all of them - were disappointed that such a show which did offer them a more relevant perspective - again, this is their angle, not mine - ended after only one season. I also did not claim that anti-woke grifting was the sole reason for that: clearly there were multiple factors. No, it's just you, really, who is the problem. Anyone with half a brain could see what you were angling towards by your first questioning of the notion of "stories for women and girls." I've merely played along, and told you what actual women think. You spewed the usual talking points in return. You are quick to remind us all of the diversity of opinions among women, but even quicker to dismiss the ones which I am sharing, because you find them inconvenient. You imply that the women in my life don't "prefer quality" and need to be "pandered" to. What conclusions am I to draw about you, except for the obvious?
2 hours ago, Nick1Ø66 said:Anyway, I'll leave you to the patriarchal world of "Pilgrim Knows Best"!
This is especially funny. I think no one in my life has accused me of being patriarchal, and for good reason. Even those who know me simply through this forum would likely find that absurd, if they remember anything about me.
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Perhaps you missed the part where I explained that literally all I've said about Star Wars here comes not from my perspective, but from that of the women around me. Take a look. Is that true of what you've been saying?
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I regret to inform you nothing is avoided, you've merely become noseblind to it all.
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You don't avoid it though, do you? You're just content to tolerate one angle of it - yours - but balk at anything which threatens it.
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Ah yes, weaponizing the language right back. You've learned well. You can continue shouting into the void what you - a man - think is best for women. Whether or not you choose to realize that I'm merely reporting what literally every woman in my life has ever said to me on this subject is your choice.
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Anyone else like Howard Shore's THE LORD OF THE RINGS?
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13 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:
But there's a difference between having a female lead and suggesting that women and girls need their own special "Star Wars stories" (whatever that means). That's pretty condescending. They don't need to be pandered to.
There's nothing "condescending" or "pandering" about understanding that women want to see characters and stories which resonate more personally with them than men do, nor with studios delivering on that. It is a weak framing that I often see from men who don't want to be seen as rejecting that idea out of hand in childish "defense" of their cherished property, but who also can't bring themselves to fully accept such a thing lest they be seen as " too woke."
13 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:Plus the show mostly sucked, which is why people, including women & girls, didn't watch, despite the pandering.
I know quite a few who did. But it seems clear from your insistence on the "pandering" angle that you are coming at this from a fundamentally misguided place. Alas. The rot is everywhere.
- Not Mr. Big and Nick1Ø66
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1 minute ago, John Dutton said:
Frozen Empire was a fine distraction.
No, that's not possible. The Jedi would sense it.
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I reckon it was better than the dark and disturbed, realistic and relatable ones with the kids.
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I do think Disney as an entity is despicable. Every one of these studios/streaming services is. The actual cast and crew of the productions should be allowed to do their thing without meddling from bean counters - the bean counters themselves should probably be dragged into the street and the reliance of art on corporate monoliths eradicated, but that's a separate conversation.
- HunterTech, Not Mr. Big and Holko
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I wish that brand of person every ounce of misery the cosmos can focus on them.
Star Trek is better than everything
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Oh my.