Dixon Hill

Although it is slightly embarrassing for those who were edged out by the bear.

Well I'm so glad to hear this again (even though its a mock up) after almost 12 years. I was singing Tenor in the extra chorus of Covent Garden at the time in Verdi's Simon Boccanegra. Between stage rehearsals Terry Edwards came up to me and asked if I would like to sing in the two AOTC sessions which were due the following week. I nearly fainted. I had done a couple of gigs with London Voices before this and the most recent had been a recording of a Symphonic Jazz Cantata by Dave Brubeck called "The Gates of Justice" which we recorded at Abbey Road.
I turned up at Abbey Road and the entire day was one of utter enchantment for me. It is this one deleted passage of underscore which dazzled me the most. Williams recorded the entire thing three or four times in front of me and I got to hear those gigantic orchestral chords over and over again. At the time I described the effect as a "massive orchestral blowout" and I really looked forward to hearing it on the official soundtrack album. Chris Chrusher sent me an advance promo of the AOTC soundtrack album a few months later and I was very disappointed to hear the Imperial March used as replacement. I thought this was a cheap and inappropriate cop-out. Much like the entire wretched movie itself. Will this legendary portion ever see the light of day on CD?
If it had been me I would have left any statement of the Imperial March right to the end of ROTS when Anakin/Vader is on the operating table. I would have commisioned Williams to transform the Imperial March into a gigantic choral statement. Can you imagine a 60 piece choir of the calibre of London Voices singing the Imperial March as an illustrative index of Vader's magnitude? Sadly even such a grandiloquent statement could not have saved the rushed botched job of Vader's incarnation. There was relatively little to do for us in the chorus that day so most of us were trying to contort our heads up to catch snippets of what was happening on the gigantic screen above our heads. I remember seeing huge bars rolling across the screen which acted as a click track in time with the music. Also I was mildly horrified to see images of a computer generated Yoda (the CGI image wasnt entirely fleshed out at this stage) doing somersaults with a tiny light sabre. Oh please! Utterly dreadful.
I was moving house at the time of the premiere of AOTC and I almost missed my chance to see the cast and crew showing at Leicester Sq because the tickets had been sent to my previous address. Luckily I intercepted my mail and was able to attend. I went with my good friend Richard Voice and we sat through this largely interminable gadbage dressed up as a Star Wars movie. It was just an orgy of not very good CGI. We were both well versed with the soundtrack for TPM and were both equally dismayed to hear snippets of the TPM score used as genuine underscore. One of the main qualities of the Star Wars movies was the music and this aberration and butchering of Williams music was a benchmark which set AOTC apart from all the other movies. Incidentally does anyone know if Williams wrote an original set of cues for the scenes which were ultimately scored with rehashed snippets from the score of TPM? Or was the ratatouille of jumbled up snippets the first and only choice? What a mess!
This was one of the best paid singing jobs I ever did and I still have the Lucasfilm invoice to prove it. In between the two sessions I bravely walked over to Mr Williams who was standing at the podium poring over his gigantic printed score which had "STAR WARS II" written in big bold letters on the front page. I introduced myself and by this time I was physically shaking. I told him the story he's probably heard a thousand times...that as an 8 year old in Glasgow I was significantly influenced by his vast orchestral frescoes so much so that I eventually made classical music my career and thus went on to study opera at the RCM. I distinctly remember saying "Mr Williams! Your music will last for hundreds and hundreds of years!" To which he retorted "Yes but will we still be around in hundreds of years?". What I remember about him in those brief moments was his deportment and incredible graces. I had my photo taken with him and it hangs on my living room wall. It was a perfect day in many respects except for one thing. In my stupour I forgot to shake maestro Williams hand!

Forgive me, but... these points strike me as a tad clinical. Why can't contrapuntal lines jump? Why must modulation be not jarring? Why must there be intrinsic harmonic connection? It seems like you're judging these things based on guidelines for an exercise in a university harmony textbook.
Precisely - that's part of the whole operatic principle. Of course, one could argue that silence might be better, but....

Finished season 8. I found the season constantly very touching. One of the X-Files' strongest. It also had marvellous music by Mark Snow, particularly the theme for Mulder's and Scully's relationship.

Forgive me, but... these points strike me as a tad clinical. Why can't contrapuntal lines jump? Why must modulation be not jarring? Why must there be intrinsic harmonic connection? It seems like you're judging these things based on guidelines for an exercise in a university harmony textbook.
Precisely - that's part of the whole operatic principle. Of course, one could argue that silence might be better, but....

Forgive me, but... these points strike me as a tad clinical. Why can't contrapuntal lines jump? Why must modulation be not jarring? Why must there be intrinsic harmonic connection? It seems like you're judging these things based on guidelines for an exercise in a university harmony textbook.
Precisely - that's part of the whole operatic principle. Of course, one could argue that silence might be better, but....

Ah yes, that I agree with, that his natural habitat is a different kind of score. But, I don't see this foray into opulent Hollywood scoring as a compromise or a sort of fluke. I think it was a stroke of fortune, and wouldn't in retrospect choose any other composer to replace him. The sound world that he created utterly embodies Middle-Earth in my mind, in a way that no one else could have, and that's not an indictment of the skill of any of his colleagues. It's an assertion that the filmmakers knew exactly what they wanted, and that Shore was the person to best deliver it.
It's unique, I guess is what I'm trying to say. Horner and Williams are seasoned blockbuster composers but that's precisely the point - Shore delivered something new that they likely wouldn't have.

Ah yes, that I agree with, that his natural habitat is a different kind of score. But, I don't see this foray into opulent Hollywood scoring as a compromise or a sort of fluke. I think it was a stroke of fortune, and wouldn't in retrospect choose any other composer to replace him. The sound world that he created utterly embodies Middle-Earth in my mind, in a way that no one else could have, and that's not an indictment of the skill of any of his colleagues. It's an assertion that the filmmakers knew exactly what they wanted, and that Shore was the person to best deliver it.
It's unique, I guess is what I'm trying to say. Horner and Williams are seasoned blockbuster composers but that's precisely the point - Shore delivered something new that they likely wouldn't have.

Well, that's something that neither of us can ever really know. All I know is that he is a trained, experienced musician. I'm not sure what you mean by "loud stuff" either, though it's difficult to argue that his action music is for everyone if that's what you mean. In those sequences, like the rest of his work, he is very reserved with his highly complex writing. It's probably worth also taking into account his philosophy of scoring, which is very informed by operatic principles. He wants the music to support, but not to stick out, so that accounts for his more subtle approach barring those moments where he feels dramatically justified in letting loose. It's like Mozart setting a recitative very simply, and then writing flashy for an important dramatic moment.
But I think where we actually differ is that you want to compare it all to something - Goldenthal, for example. I'm satisfied to just take a composer's style and voice as it stands. And if this reads to you as defensive drivel, well, what can I do?

That's all fair, and I wouldn't presume to try and change your opinion, but you'll forgive me if I feel the need to over-respond.
So, harmony, counterpoint, orchestration. Ok. Well TTT and ROTK have their own riches in these departments, but I think FOTR is a brilliant enough score to stand on its own.
First let's look at some interesting orchestrations, starting with the first minute of Keep It Secret, Keep It Safe. Initially simple tension in string clusters, but this erupts into a "dark" and "glassy" sheen of fluttering strings, winds, and celesta, underpinned by heavy, roving low strings and winds. This builds into the moment where Bilbo slips the ring off, marked by a soft brass chord, an upward sweep of violins, wind chimes/mark tree, and a light cymbal roll. Then Hobbity intervals in the low winds. Not quite monochrome.
The Doors of Durin, during the Watcher sequence starting around 3:20. Something stirs under the surface of the lake, and the basses do slithery quarter tone glides with the contrabassoon accenting the target notes. Then the music for the discovery of the dead of Moria, and the Watcher's appearance itself. The aleatory here is obviously all over Shore's scores, but this is one of the most wild and unsettling appearances, with stabbing, non-vibrato trumpet clusters, wailing horns at the top of their registers, etc.
How about Khazad-Dum, at 7:32? Those low strings jumping up into their higher registers is heart wrenching.
Caras Galadhon, 3:35 to about a minute later, and a similar passage in The Fighting Uruk-Hai during the gift scene, 2:43 to 4:00 in that track. The main material is covered by ethereal, very still strings and women's voices, with glimmering arpeggios in the celesta and harps. Under this is a more sinewy line for mid-low range winds, brass, and strings, minus the brass/winds in the second excerpt. Again, anything but monochrome - these are all subtle and extremely effective colorations.
Now, harmony. This is where you are most accurate about feeling Shore has "limited" resources, but "limited" in this case does not nearly equate to "few." There's quite a bit of movement by thirds, especially major thirds, which is a very Wagnerian sound and there's no mystery in his inclinations towards that. I'll also avoid talking merely about harmonization of themes or motives.
However, consider the build up in Give Up The Halfling from 1:47 to 2:48. That's a skillful mounting of tension using relatively simple harmony and clusters, leading up to the statement of the wraith theme.
The Doors of Durin again, but this time, the little moment for the reveal of the Doors themselves starting at 1:37. Luminous bitonality, with a sustained triad underneath a sequence of rising major chords. It's these small gestures where much of the ingenuity of these scores is apparent.
The Dwarrodelf sequence in Balin's Tomb. I have no technospeak to tout this moment, it's just incredibly moving harmonically. This entire cue is harmonically very satisfying though, moving deftly between tonal areas of the opening moments' sad grandeur to the ominous reading of the book, the battle scene's dissonance, the airy relief that Frodo is still alive/Mithril reveal, and then the big statement of the Fellowship theme that spins off into a propulsive clusteral crescendo.
The same gifting sequence from The Fighting Uruk-Hai mentioned above - these are a very facile few moments harmonically, gracefully sliding from one sonority to the next.
Finally counterpoint. This is one thing that increases as you move in the scores chronologically. Shore has said that he didn't want to write with too much contrapuntal complexity at the start of the story - by the time you get to ROTK, you have some thrilling moments, particularly during the Pelennor battle, but in this first chapter he specifically said he was more reserved with writing that way as the story doesn't yet have the scope that really calls for it in his vision.
That said, there are a few choice moments, fleeting though they may be.
Gilraen's Memorial, 2:10 - 2:19, very delicate interplay between the clarinet and oboe.
Khazad-Dum, 0:21 - 0:30, clashing lines with the horns playing declamatory phrases and the strings scurrying around similar pitches in counterpoint.
The Road Goes Ever On… Pt. 1, 0:51 - 1:22, gorgeous dialogue in the strings.
So... I obviously had a bit of time on my hands today. Don't misconstrue it as "fanboying" or anything like that, I just enjoy trying to encourage others to appreciate things that I appreciate.

Ah yes, that I agree with, that his natural habitat is a different kind of score. But, I don't see this foray into opulent Hollywood scoring as a compromise or a sort of fluke. I think it was a stroke of fortune, and wouldn't in retrospect choose any other composer to replace him. The sound world that he created utterly embodies Middle-Earth in my mind, in a way that no one else could have, and that's not an indictment of the skill of any of his colleagues. It's an assertion that the filmmakers knew exactly what they wanted, and that Shore was the person to best deliver it.
It's unique, I guess is what I'm trying to say. Horner and Williams are seasoned blockbuster composers but that's precisely the point - Shore delivered something new that they likely wouldn't have.

That's all fair, and I wouldn't presume to try and change your opinion, but you'll forgive me if I feel the need to over-respond.
So, harmony, counterpoint, orchestration. Ok. Well TTT and ROTK have their own riches in these departments, but I think FOTR is a brilliant enough score to stand on its own.
First let's look at some interesting orchestrations, starting with the first minute of Keep It Secret, Keep It Safe. Initially simple tension in string clusters, but this erupts into a "dark" and "glassy" sheen of fluttering strings, winds, and celesta, underpinned by heavy, roving low strings and winds. This builds into the moment where Bilbo slips the ring off, marked by a soft brass chord, an upward sweep of violins, wind chimes/mark tree, and a light cymbal roll. Then Hobbity intervals in the low winds. Not quite monochrome.
The Doors of Durin, during the Watcher sequence starting around 3:20. Something stirs under the surface of the lake, and the basses do slithery quarter tone glides with the contrabassoon accenting the target notes. Then the music for the discovery of the dead of Moria, and the Watcher's appearance itself. The aleatory here is obviously all over Shore's scores, but this is one of the most wild and unsettling appearances, with stabbing, non-vibrato trumpet clusters, wailing horns at the top of their registers, etc.
How about Khazad-Dum, at 7:32? Those low strings jumping up into their higher registers is heart wrenching.
Caras Galadhon, 3:35 to about a minute later, and a similar passage in The Fighting Uruk-Hai during the gift scene, 2:43 to 4:00 in that track. The main material is covered by ethereal, very still strings and women's voices, with glimmering arpeggios in the celesta and harps. Under this is a more sinewy line for mid-low range winds, brass, and strings, minus the brass/winds in the second excerpt. Again, anything but monochrome - these are all subtle and extremely effective colorations.
Now, harmony. This is where you are most accurate about feeling Shore has "limited" resources, but "limited" in this case does not nearly equate to "few." There's quite a bit of movement by thirds, especially major thirds, which is a very Wagnerian sound and there's no mystery in his inclinations towards that. I'll also avoid talking merely about harmonization of themes or motives.
However, consider the build up in Give Up The Halfling from 1:47 to 2:48. That's a skillful mounting of tension using relatively simple harmony and clusters, leading up to the statement of the wraith theme.
The Doors of Durin again, but this time, the little moment for the reveal of the Doors themselves starting at 1:37. Luminous bitonality, with a sustained triad underneath a sequence of rising major chords. It's these small gestures where much of the ingenuity of these scores is apparent.
The Dwarrodelf sequence in Balin's Tomb. I have no technospeak to tout this moment, it's just incredibly moving harmonically. This entire cue is harmonically very satisfying though, moving deftly between tonal areas of the opening moments' sad grandeur to the ominous reading of the book, the battle scene's dissonance, the airy relief that Frodo is still alive/Mithril reveal, and then the big statement of the Fellowship theme that spins off into a propulsive clusteral crescendo.
The same gifting sequence from The Fighting Uruk-Hai mentioned above - these are a very facile few moments harmonically, gracefully sliding from one sonority to the next.
Finally counterpoint. This is one thing that increases as you move in the scores chronologically. Shore has said that he didn't want to write with too much contrapuntal complexity at the start of the story - by the time you get to ROTK, you have some thrilling moments, particularly during the Pelennor battle, but in this first chapter he specifically said he was more reserved with writing that way as the story doesn't yet have the scope that really calls for it in his vision.
That said, there are a few choice moments, fleeting though they may be.
Gilraen's Memorial, 2:10 - 2:19, very delicate interplay between the clarinet and oboe.
Khazad-Dum, 0:21 - 0:30, clashing lines with the horns playing declamatory phrases and the strings scurrying around similar pitches in counterpoint.
The Road Goes Ever On… Pt. 1, 0:51 - 1:22, gorgeous dialogue in the strings.
So... I obviously had a bit of time on my hands today. Don't misconstrue it as "fanboying" or anything like that, I just enjoy trying to encourage others to appreciate things that I appreciate.

Well that's completely fair, yes, but I just don't understand the notion that he is a weak orchestrator, which I haven't only seen expressed here. It's obvious to me that he orchestrated these scores in a very specific way, to sound a certain way, and it seems like some people interpret that as being the "wrong" way.

If a composer orchestrates a certain way, then it's not because he can't do it differently, it's because he doesn't want to do it any other way unless he is required to.
Shore talks about orchestrations frequently I think, and his point is something that pertains to all composers who orchestrate their own work; it's a matter of your own inner musical voice. You orchestrate in the way that feels and sounds right to you. And why not? Why would you suddenly tamper with your voice if it doesn't feel right for you? Once you do that, I think it's very easy to lose your musical instinct because you're dealing with something you're not used to.
And I don't think a film composer, where time is usually short (unless your name is John Williams), can afford that.

You know, there is a ton of overtly wintery music that comes to mind, mostly in the vein of carols/hymns/sacred music, but I'll eschew that in favor of something perhaps slightly less obvious.
Jeremy Soule's score for Skyrim is probably my go-to music for this time of year. Wintery associations are owed partly to the fact that it was released around, and played relentlessly by me during, winter. But there is also something inherently chilly about this music, brilliantly crafted to fit the environment of the game. The whole score is highly recommendable, but as it reaches nearly four hours in length, here are a few specifics.
These two are very evocative pieces, conjuring up images of nighted snowscapes and auroras.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qeiLt2WSkw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOVWjb1WZI0
This is somewhat different, written as source music for taverns/inns etc., but equally suggestive of the season in its own way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4eAM7QvzUw
Something more straightforwardly melodic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6SjvpFBe3M
And the highlight of the whole score for me, with a thrilling climax that is doubly flooring when it happens to appear in-game at appropriate moments.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tP4VtM-bTXQ

You can catch the first glimpse of the clavicord at the very end of Thrice Welcome, even though it's basically just a blop in the audio. It will be interesting to hear how it's used.

Yes Beyond the Forest seems to be the answer to my pining for a nice choral piece over the credits.

What a wonderful man.

The end of FOTR comes to mind.

GreyPilgrim, thanks for the Respighi post! I've never heard that concerto, and it's really amazing. Thanks!

Beyond The Forest gives me exactly the same kind of shivers the best moments from LotR did. I'm so happy.

AUJ is as far removed from a LOTR score as you can be in PJ's framework. Everything from this point on will move closer to LOTR.

I've been notified that Cheng performed four movements, not three.
John Williams Conversations (2012-2013, world premiere)
I. Phineas and Mumbett II. Claude and Monk III. Chet and Miles IV. Strays, Duke ... and Blind Tom I've also received a picture of John Williams' program notes, which I've transcribed for the article on the main page:
http://www.jwfan.com/?p=6331

I've spent the last two weeks checking the internet approximately every three minutes to see if these samples were out yet. I feel quite relieved now that I can put that period behind me, and get on with the more serious business of checking the internet every three minutes to see if the entire score is online yet.

http://insidemovies.ew.com/2013/11/15/the-hobbit-the-desolation-of-smaug-soundtrack/
Actually samples!