CYPHER

I would love to hear a deconstructed and corrupted version of the "Across the Stars Love Theme" from AOTC to mark the souring of the romance between Anakin and Padme. By this I don't mean a defilement or a desecration of this amazing theme. Instead I am envisaging what is already predominantly a tragic and bittersweet melody rather than a passionate love theme being taken to a higher level, where hate now plays a part. I'm predicting that Anakin will come to hate and resent Padme just as he does Obi-Wan and the other Jedi, and it would be great to hear and feel this arising out of the ashes of their love theme. You can already detect the despair in that melodramatic string passage in "Across the Stars" (used to effect a subtle, mournful tone in "Anakin and Padme" - Track 6) and I think this would be great played over any scene in which Anakin hopefully turns on Padme and their children. This would be the equivalent of the truly inspired "The Dark Side Beckons" from ROTJ. Can't wait CYPHER

Yes, this is entirely too difficult. I'm torn between honouring the classics (most of which have already been mentioned many times over so far) or adding something new to the discussion. A cue that's always moved me is the rousing rendition of Yoda's Theme in The Empire Strikes Back track 9 (1997 Special Edition 2nd CD) when Luke chases after the captured Leia and is fired upon by Boba Fett. I don't understand why Yoda's theme is used here (it can't be establishing a link between Luke's training on Dagobah because he does act quite foolishly in this instance) but it works perfectly and is just so incredibly energetic :wow: CYPHER

I've been meaning to branch out (pun intended) and sample some of John Williams' non-film score music and since Christmas is fast approaching, I thought now was the time to do so. I'm considering buying either Treesong or Yo-Yo Ma plays the Music of John Williams but before I do so I'd really like to hear what anyone here thinks about these two recent works. Which do you prefer? Which do you recommend? What are some of the attributes of each? Or if you can recommend any other non-film related John Williams music that'd be great too. Thanks guys CYPHER

I'm with you on this one Ted . That's also the way I look at the relationship between movie and score, though I am probably a little more movie-centric: it takes a really good score for me to want to purchase it and listen to it over and over. CYPHER

yipee The movie award season has begun! I've always thought the National Board of Review make some good (though unconventional) decisions. However the very fact that they alone of all the major American Critic Groups select the ten best films of the year gives them considerable leeway to get things right . And guess what, I haven't seen any of these films (probably because only one of them has actually been released here yet). And you're right Hlao-roo, Spielberg was totally snubbed for Minority Report which is still the best movie I've seen released this year. But that's not entirely surprising, considering it can't really compete with the 'highbrow' nature of many of these winning films, despite being undeniably intelligent and superbly crafted. CYPHER

Generally I DO like to be challenged and engaged when watching a movie. I'm not one of those people who apparently love everything to be served on a platter (and thanks for not lumping me in with them Ted ). However the day I saw that film I'd had enough of a challenge getting to the bloody cinema on time :evil: . Plus Ben Affleck seriously pissed me off (that's pretty much three movies in a row where he plays the same loser character who cries all the time). And personally I found this movie overly didactic and preachy, especially towards the end. Anyway what this has to do with Catch Me If You Can, is beyond me... In fact I think I started this digression myself (where's the emoticon for self-flaggelation when you need it?). CYPHER

I'm really not excited about this one at all. I just have this feeling that I'm not going to enjoy it. I hope I'm wrong, because I usually love Spielberg. I saw the ad the other day just before watching the excremental Changing Lanes (I can't believe how much I HATED that movie ) and it didn't get me very excited. Then again I was suffering from a major case of "bad 'tude"... CYPHER

Hey Strilo, your new avatar ROCKS! CYPHER

I've only ever read the Tintin books in English (except for when I was very little and tried to translate Tintin in the Congo, because the only copy I had access to was in French. It was a total disaster LOL ). I'd always known that Snowy was originally called Milou, but didn't know much about the other characters having alternative names. Just for fun, can everyone share some of the different translations of the names of Tintin and the supporting characters (i.e. Haddock, Calculus, Castafiore) that are used throughout the world? It's interesting to hear Tintin referred to as Kuifje for example. I guess the oddity of 'Tintin' as a word always lead me to believe that it was universally used. To me he's always been Tintin and there's something very distinct about that, so it's fascinating to think that there are many other names which while being completely different, all designate the same awesome character. CYPHER - I really don't think they should bother making a movie about Tintin. Just read the books instead! Everything you could ever hope for is all there.

Wow, I have hardly heard any of these scores or seen the films they were written for. I guess that's because a lot of them haven't been released here yet. I'm looking forward to The Pianist too, Scissorhands (I'm a big Polanski fan) though I have no idea when it's coming out down under. Can someone tell me why both Howard Shore and Elmer Bernstein wrote music for Gangs of New York? I thought it was just Bernstein... Is it just another of the many conundrums that seem to have beset this film? CYPHER

Good work Ted, though I must agree with the Guest above that I would sorely miss the Tusken Camp and Return to the Homestead (Track 11) which is one of my favourites. It would be nice to be able to hear a lot of the moody, atmospheric music composed for the Kamino scenes actually collected together in the one track, as you've done. I really like this music but I think it's always overshadowed by the accompanying music, either the Main Title (in Track 1) or Bounty Hunter's Pursuit (in Track 9). And finally I reckon it would've been great to release that incredibly rythmic and energetic cue that overlays the refugee ship's journey through space, maybe inserting it at the very beginning of Yoda and the Younglings where it seems to chronologically belong. It can't be more than 10 seconds long! CYPHER

Just getting back to the Dark Test you mentioned Joe... An excellent way to put it. Experiencing music under these circumstances is the best way to truly appreciate its qualities. Some music thrives and reaches a whole other level when all distractions are eliminated and all you can think of and hear and feel is the music. Other music just falls completely flat and makes you bored and restless. To me this is the way to distinguish superior music from that which masquerades as quality. It used to be that the way I appreciated the quality of a piece of music the most was in the dark, in those moments just before sleep where your pre-dream imagination is taken and inspired by the music that's playing. The more vivid the images and experiences the music provoked, the more highly I thought of it. You can pick up on the smallest of elements within the music and appreciate it all that much better. Of the scores that I own, The Thin Red Line, Kundun and the quieter moments of The Fellowship of the Ring were the best in this department. Only I don't seem to put music to this test much nowadays because I have no trouble getting to sleep anymore. CYPHER

That's because To Catch a Thief is a really crappy movie. It is sad but true to admit that Hitchcock did make some stinkers and this is one of them: not even Grace Kelly can save it. CYPHER

I think Lara Fabian does a great job and the music is of course excellent, but those lyrics! I don't really have a problem with their content, even though it is sappy. It's just that they feel so awkward and their placement in relation to the music seems quite off kilter. Whereas I can listen to "Monicas Theme" or "Where Dreams Are Born" and feel completely satisfied and at ease, listening to "For Always" has a tendency to leave me exasperated and uncomfortable, emotional states which I don't think were intended. But this is a personal reaction only. CYPHER

Is it just me or is there currently very little discussion about the AOTC DVD on this messageboard? What's going on? Maybe everyone's a little bit over it, but I have a few questions (which may already have been answered elsewhere): 1) are there any new scenes incorporated into the DVD release that weren't in the theatrical release and aren't included in the deleted scenes section e.g. the expansion of the arrival at Coruscant in The Phantom Menace DVD? 2) Luke, what are you referring to by 'cutscenes'? Surely some scenes haven't been edited down??? 3) What are the deleted scenes like? Utter crap or priceless gems? Did they end up including the expanded Yoda vs Dooku (what was with that photo of Dooku with two lightsabres?) and the Jedi raid on that ship in the final battle? If not why not, because surely these had definite potential! Thanks CYPHER

Guys, I just got back this very instant from seeing Red Dragon at the cinemas. Yeah, it's alright I guess, but I couldn't help measuring it against Manhunter, to which Red Dragon definitely appears far inferior. A lot of it was fairly competently done, but there were just too many ridiculous bits too so that whereas in Manhunter I was genuinely scared, freaked out, touched or disturbed by what I saw, here I was occasionally amused and compelled to make quiet, wise-arse quips with my friend towards the end (which is something I practically NEVER do). As for the score, well I'm sorry but I didn't particularly like it at all. It was WAY too overdone and heavy-handed for my liking. Completely excessive and gratuitous and loud. With films like this, sometimes less is more and I really appreciate and respect what Howard Shore and Hans Zimmer did for the other movies in the series. They both established an atmosphere and an ambience which eluded Elfman here: the score was always noticeable, which I felt was not what was needed. As for the opening titles, I guess they were okay. I'd heard some people on this messageboard praising them before and so I was more than casually expecting something enjoyable (I thought Elfman's opening titles to Planet of the Apes were amazing and definitely the best thing about that film). However this time, the titles were just a little bit too camp and bombastic for my taste. So there you go Morlock, that's my two cents. But I'm glad you (and others) enjoyed it and I'm sure owning and having listened to the score in isolation would have a significant effect on any assessment of it. CYPHER

I want to go back to what Darth Wojo was saying about the intentionality of these symbolic and mythic references in Attack of the Clones. You're probably right that Lucas more than likely did not plan all those moon references in the same way that David Begor (the author of the article) seemed to imply. But just because something wasn't intended, it doesn't mean that it cannot be appreciated. Certainly the key point here is how smart and inventive and literate George Lucas is and for this argument to succeed in the affirmative requires a fair degree of intention on his part. However things such as the feminist readings of Star Trek to which Sacman717 referred can be enjoyable and enlightening regardless of whether these messages and symbols were ever actually intended. When it comes to feminist readings of certain 'texts' such as these films and television episodes, the intention is not necessarily what matters. Indeed it is argued that a text can convey unintended meanings that are significant and worthy of study as a means of deconstructing the wider systems of meaning and social values which they embody. But that'a little bit off the topic. CYPHER

I heard (on this discussion board I think...) that there will be two releases of The Two Towers soundtrack CD, one normal, one deluxe. The deluxe edition will feature an extra track called something like "Farewell to Lorien" which contains the unreleased new music written for the Expanded Edition of The Fellowship of the Ring. Can you Guest, or anyone else tell me if the extra scenes in the Expanded Edition are watchable separately or if they are only integrated into the film? I'd really like to see them, but at the moment I don't much feel like sitting through the entire film again (considering how much longer it is too). CYPHER

I'm pretty conservative and dare I say it 'anal' about when I listen to my soundtracks. Ever since I got my new stereo system about half way through this year (just in time for Attack of the Clones ) I won't listen to them on anything but that. I don't have a car, I don't go to the gym, hell I don't even own a portable, personal CD player, let alone headphones which tend to break whenever I'm around. Just like a lot of electronic, overtly technological equipment really. I'm telling you it's my unique electro-magnetic field... Anyway, I try to listen to my soundtracks when they're appropriate with my mood and my environment (which is fairly static and controlled in my room). I will almost always only listen to CDs like A.I. and Kundun and The Thin Red Line at night, preferrably just before sleeping because they are so evocative and soothing. CDs like The Patriot, Dances with Wolves, Amistad and The Virgin Suicides work best during daylight hours, preferably the afternoon, when it's nice and sunny. And the Star Wars soundtracks are just so excellent that they can be played anytime of course CYPHER

Thanks Beowulf, that was a really good read. I'm certainly not one of these Attack of the Clones 'haters' you're talking about, because I really enjoyed the film (except for the dodgy music edits at the end that is). The mythical allusions contained within the Star Wars films have always been a subject of interest for me, especially this year having visited the "Magic of Myth" exhibit of Star Wars costumes and models and read the excellent companion book. It was good to read an extension of these concerns and preoccupations to the newer films. I've never doubted that Lucas is highly literate and aware, especially about myths and the use of symbols in cinema and other art, and this article simply confirms this. However, I have to take issue with two things about the article and the film. Firstly, what David Begor sees as the symbolic ambiguity that pervades Attack of the Clones illustrates that what functions effectively on an allegorical or symbolic level does not necessarily translate well to successful storytelling or good film-making. For example, while the ambiguous deployment of referents to the uncertain relationships between the characters and the concepts of 'good' and 'evil' are laudable on a theoretical level, in the context of the film's narrative they can come across as a bit of a mess. Secondly, and this is an associated point, no amount of cine literacy or technical accomplishment can compensate for what are some fundamental weaknesses in the acting, the dialogue and occasionally the pacing. But like, I said, I'm not an AOTC hater and I am more than willing to overlook these deficits and not let them detract from the overall enjoyable experiences I've had with this movie. CYPHER PS - avoid Visual Mode at all costs! It turned my reply to junk before I reverted back to the old system and edited it. Ricard is this problem a common one, is the system still going through a teething process, or is my computer just 'special'?

Let's just get back to David's theme from A.I. that Ray and Diskobolus were talking about. I always thought that David's theme was that eerie tune heard at the conclusion of "The Mecha World"? It can also be heard in the background in "Hide and Seek" as well as in between Monica's Theme in "The Reunion". Am I right? All I'm going off here is that when I heard this music, I instantly thought of David's character and predicament. It captures his essence completely: a sweet, innocent theme, much like something that would represent a young boy, only its played in a very tonal and artificial way that brilliantly conveys David's mecha origins. And at the end, in "The Reunion" when David essentially achieves his wish, the theme is heard orchestrally as if to signify this successful transition from android to human. This is an excellent example of Spielberg's comments in the liner notes about Williams's music being able to tell the story even without images. CYPHER

King Mark beat me to it, but I was just going to mention the pre-end credit music for The Patriot: "Yorktown and the Return Home". While it's not my favourite track on the score (I have so many) it does have a majesty and a grandeur all its own and is a very fitting conclusion to the film. I think the reason why William's pre-end credit music is particularly great is because he's been given such excellent cinematic material to work with (see particularly the aforementioned Close Encounters and E.T.). Combine rousing finales like those with Williams' natural talent and the results more than speak for themselves. CYPHER

I obviously wouldn't know what the hell John Williams is really like, but I wouldn't be surprised if he did have a little bit of an ego. But that's to be expected: he should realise that he is the best film composer alive and the creator of some of the most recognisable themes of the 20th Century. He is the maestro and why shouldn't he be proud of it? Just think of all the beautiful things that having such confidence has surely produced. I don't think it's arrogance if it's actually deserved and if it's true, and that's definitely the case here. CYPHER

Across the Stars is my Fave, though they are all good (of course). CYPHER

I've got a question because it's been ages since I've been to IMAX: is the AOTC print in widescreen / 16:9 just like it was at the cinemas? Or can't IMAX handle a widescreen print? If it was cut to a pan-and-scan type format, I think THAT would be a greater crime than deleting scenes. Oh and Ocelot, you say you're a Dorme fan, eh? Don't know if you're joking or not... I mean her characterisation and development was just so brilliant and all Anyway, I've got to say that I hold a personal aversion to the actress who plays Dorme, Rose Byrne. She's an Aussie too and I've seen her in some pretty dodgy stuff, namely Echo Point a seriously lame soap opera. I can't stand her! And I can't believe she made the final cut and Claudia Karvan (another Australian) who is a much better actress and who plays Padme's sister was left on the editing room floor :cry: But I think she's in the deleted scenes on the DVD so that's okay. How lame / excellent would it be to have a poll on "who's your favourite Amidala hand-maiden?" LOL I vote 1 for Sabe in The Phantom Menace! CYPHER