jamesluckard
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Posts posted by jamesluckard
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3 minutes ago, crumbs said:
Maybe Mike added some breathing space between these two cues so we can separate them?
Hmm, checking the track times, doesn't look like it. Can we use the sessions to source clean openings/endings of those two cues?
It's pretty easy to split those two cues up using the album version, there's a lengthy sustained note connecting them, I just faded out at the end of one cue and faded in on the opening of the other, in order to put the Auschwitz-Birkenau cue between them.
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1 minute ago, fommes said:
Everyone everywhere seems to prefer the Pour Sacha and Billy Bathgate versions; I must be the only one preferring the album versions
I don't think either of the album versions would work well in the film, as for preferring them as listening experiences on their own, I'm not sure, I'm only interested in the film versions because they're inextricably linked in my mind with those scenes in the film.
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28 minutes ago, Muldoon said:
So if I add the following tracks to the end of my rip of Disc 2, will I really be missing anything else?
Disc 2 Continued:
7. OYF’N Pripetshok (On the Hearth - Film Version)
8. Yeroushalaim Chel Zahav (Jerusalem Of Gold - Film Version)
9. Por una Cabeza (By a Head)
10. Celos (Jealousy)
11. Hebrew Prayer
Well, there are also a number of other dance songs/tangos that Williams recorded for the film.
You also might want to add this existing Perlman classical recording that's used as score when Schindler interviews secretaries and hires all the applicants:
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21 minutes ago, Jay said:
Mike and I don't know if the album versions were recorded intending to be in the film but Spielberg preferred the temp, or if Williams recorded them specifically for his planned album presentation.
It remains a mystery!
Thanks!
The strange thing is the album versions of the two songs were both recorded by choirs in Israel, and conducted by other people, so based on the liner notes from the original CD, I'm not even clear if Williams had any involvement with them. Yet he clearly chose to include them on the album. Perhaps he commissioned these two Israeli choirs to record these versions?
Either way, I'm glad both of the temp track versions stayed in the film.
The Billy Bathgate version of OYF'N Pripetshok, arranged by Mark Isham, is much more effective, since it sounds intentionally like an amateur group of cheerful schoolchildren, with spare piano accompaniment. I can't find the whole piece online, but you can listen to a 30 second sample here, it's track 7:
https://itunes.apple.com/gb/album/billy-bathgate-original-motion-picture-soundtrack/1051699204
The album version, performed by the Li-Ron Herzeliya Children's Choir of Tel Aviv, conducted by Ronit Shapira, is much like Yeroushalaim, it sounds professional and almost funereal, totally different:
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This is the recording of Yeroushalaim Chel Zahav used in the film, from the movie "Pour Sacha." (Note that this video is a slightly different mix from the "Pour Sacha" soundtrack album mix, which I can't find anywhere online):
This is the album version, performed by The Ramat Gan Chamber Choir, conducted by Hana Tzur, Williams doesn't seem to have any involvement with it.
The recording used in the film, with the guitar and the whistling and the individual voices more audible, feels human and hopeful. The choral recording feels timeless and solemn, almost funereal. They're radically different and the version Spielberg went with totally defines the ending of the film.
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Just now, crumbs said:
Could also be a licensing/rights thing. It might have been easier to just record his own version of those tracks during the sessions rather than license existing recordings for his soundtrack.
The recordings used in the film are not even credited in the end credits roll though, it's very strange. It's like they were temp track versions left in at the last minute after the credits were done or something.
I believe all the other existing recordings used in the film are credited at the end, there are 5 of them, although none of the dance songs/tangos that Williams recorded are credited, which is weird, since songs are usually credited for the composition, even if they're not the original recordings.
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20 minutes ago, Muldoon said:
Couldn't it also be that they were always going to use the film versions, but Williams wanted to record his own for the album?
Both explanations are entirely possible, the versions are just so utterly and completely different, I wonder what the story is.
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Does anyone know the backstory for the album versions of "OYF'N Pripetshok" and "Yeroushalaim Chel Zahav"? They're completely different from the film versions.
I presume the film versions were temp tracks, since they're both off film soundtracks that came out in 1991, two years before the film was being edited.
Was there ever an intention to replace them in the film with the album versions? It seems unlikely, because their tone is so different they would have altered those scenes, especially the ending, the version of Yeroishalaim from "Pour Sacha" is so upbeat, while the album version is so solemn.
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8 hours ago, Bespin said:
Now, it is offered in 16-bit FLAC.
That's the best source of the OST we currently have.
That's a no-brainer.
Bought it and put it on a CD-R if you love CD so much!
Where is it available in that format?
I kept putting off buying this, hoping there'd be a CD, but it's probably time to give in and buy it.
At least doing that should ENSURE a CD is announced the next day. :)
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22 hours ago, Richard said:
I'm afraid I don't. I can only assume that it's at the Christmas party.
I found the scene you're talking about in the shooting script. It's a one page scene at the stadium, right after the atomic bomb goes off and Mrs. Victor dies. The Eurasian is a character from the book, I googled it. The scene is similar in the book and the shooting script. He tries to steal Jim's shoes, and then tells Jim about the atomic bomb and the Japanese surrender.
Spielberg must have decided to cut The Eurasian scene while they were still shooting in Spain, because it is replaced in the finished film with an unscripted, impressionistic scene of Jim wandering through an abandoned Japanese post that's being looted by starving Chinese soldiers. This new scene conveys the exact same information as the scripted Eurasian scene - Jim learns about the atom bomb and Japanese surrender, only now from a radio playing in the background. This leads to Jim's line (delivered to The Eurasian in the shooting script) that he saw the bomb and thought it was Mrs. Victor's soul going up to heaven. (That beautiful line is Stoppard's invention, it's not in the book.)
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37 minutes ago, crumbs said:
There's probably a bucketload of deleted scenes from Schindler's List, too. Would be interesting to watch but they'll never see the light of day. And Munich had that deleted subplot with Avner's father. They supposedly shot scenes between Avner and his dad in prison that all got cut.
Yep, I remember reading there's a HUGE amount of material that was cut from Schindler's List, I think the first cut ran like 4 hours. Many scenes were cut from the portion towards the end in Czechoslovakia, including a scene in which
Spoilerthey discover cattlecars full of corpses of people left to freeze to death.
I don't know about a subplot with Avner's father though, I read the shooting script for Munich ages ago and I don't think I remember those scenes.
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23 minutes ago, Richard said:
I seem to remember that an entire character called The Eurasian, played either by David Yip, or Ric Young, was cut from the film.
Roberts Stephens' character was, also, cut down to virtually nothing.
I've no idea how much Leslie Phillips' character was cut.
I didn't know about Miranda Richardson.
Do you remember where in the film this character of The Eurasian was supposed to have appeared? I'll check the shooting script I have. It's 160 pages long, which must have resulted in a first cut well over three hours.
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4 hours ago, Richard said:
I'd love to see EOTS with "The Eurasian" scenes put back in.
Which scenes are those? I read the shooting script ages ago, but I can't remember that. I know MIranda Richardson had her role almost completely cut from the finished film.
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On 7/27/2017 at 6:56 AM, crumbs said:
Just been getting into this wonderful score and my only question: were the source cues recorded alongside the rest of the score by Williams? Specifically, Schubert's Unfinished symphony? In my opinion, they are crucial to the complete listening experience of the film's score, even if they aren't Williams compositions.
I'm assuming not, given their absence from the session leaks.
Are there details of the exact recordings the filmmakers used?
Just saw your question, here are the recordings used in the film for the classical pieces:
I only just discovered the sessions, which amazes me, since I spent so many hours at the time the film came out figuring out where the album cues went and where all the source cues came from, going as far as calling Fox Music to clarify exactly which recordings of "Moon River" were used.
Anyway, I thought it was really interesting to hear the cue "Anderton in Halo," because it is the score for a scene deleted at the VERY last minute. After being put in containment, Anderton had a fantasy conversation with the nine-year-old version of his son Sean, played by Spencer Treat Clark from Gladiator. It's a moving scene, assuming they filmed it as it is in the shooting script. I can only assume it slowed the film down that late. The scene was deleted so late that the credits had already been finalized, and I remember the release prints of the film had "Spencer Treat Clark - Sean at Nine" listed in them at the end. Since Spielberg doesn't believe in sharing deleted scenes (except the ones on CE3K), I suppose this music and the script pages are as close as we'll ever get to seeing that deleted scene, like the big "Camelot" action sequence deleted from WOTW,
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I asked Steve Awalt, a noted Spielberg expert about Duel.
The film was shot in 1:85, but matted for television, then opened up again for the international theatrical release. I wish beyond reason that Universal would have (still could, down the line) include the television cut and the theatrical cut in HD.
Thanks!
So, once we see screenshot comparisons of widescreen vs full screen, I have a hunch that the widescreen will have some more on the sides, despite that it loses from top and bottom.
Movies shot on film were always shot 1.33, then matted for 1.85. Duel is no different, you can see from these caps:
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=9796378&postcount=269
Hmmm.. you mean even those that are 2.35:1, 2.50:1, are shot in 1.33:1?
Yep. They're either shot Super 35, in which case the 2.35 image is extracted from the middle of the 1.33 frame, or they're shot anamorphic, in which case, when you look at the negative or a release print, everyone is super, super skinny within the 1.33 frame, because the 2.35 image has been squeezed from the sides by an anamorphic lens on the camera. Another anamorphic lens is then used in the projector to make the image appear normal.
There are exceptions, of course. One of the few ways to actually shoot 1.85 natively is to use VistaVision, as it's shot with the film running sideways through the camera, not vertically. However DUEL was not shot in VistaVision.
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I asked Steve Awalt, a noted Spielberg expert about Duel.
The film was shot in 1:85, but matted for television, then opened up again for the international theatrical release. I wish beyond reason that Universal would have (still could, down the line) include the television cut and the theatrical cut in HD.
Thanks!
So, once we see screenshot comparisons of widescreen vs full screen, I have a hunch that the widescreen will have some more on the sides, despite that it loses from top and bottom.
Movies shot on film were always shot 1.33, then matted for 1.85. Duel is no different, you can see from these caps:
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=9796378&postcount=269
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"Meteor" by Laurence Rosenthal, lots of great cold war Soviet style music.
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I agree that the new Carry On version is mixed differently from the film version. However, I'm convinced they're the same recording. I listened to the Carry On version and the opening credits at the same time on my headphones and they matched exactly, except for the missing verse in the opening credits.
The Carry On version is clearly the same as the one that was on Chris Cornell's myspace page back in the fall. I assume it's the same as the second version on the German CD single, which I could never find. I don't know about any third or fourth versions out there.
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I posted this at the FSM board, but I thought people here might be interested too:
Fans of "Casino Royale" might want to know, the film version of "You Know My Name," which was different from the CD-single version released last fall, has finally been released. It's on Chris Cornell's new solo album, "Carry On". It was on his myspace page last year, just before the movie came out, so I figured it would be his album version.
I just compared it to the opening credits. Identical, except that they cut out one verse because the full song is 4:00 long.
There are two easy ways to tell the versions apart. In the old version, the lyric went "I've seen diamonds cut through harder men..." In the film version, the lyric is "I've seen *this* diamond cut through harder men..." Also, in the old version when he sings "The odds will betray you", the first two notes are the same. In the film version, the notes rise.
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Yeah, that's what I said, just twisting the words a bit too much.
I wasn't trying to twist your words, only to answer Fommes's question as clearly as possible. I was shocked myself to see that the music matched up to that scene, I never realized it was on the CD.
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So the second half really is 'arrival in Vienna' and not 'retrieving the cello'?
Well, if you insist on giving titles instead of the good old fashioned reel format. That cue is meant to represent Arrival in Vienna, but its edited form is also used for the chello retrieval and the ferris wheel scene the same way Inflight Flight is tracked into the kitchen fight sequence. TLD has about 15 minutes of tracked music.
Some version of the second half of "Approaching Kara" may, indeed, be used in the cello scene, but it's considerably altered and only a fraction of the length. However the cue that plays during the "Arrival in Vienna" scene is absolutely identical to the piece on the album, sounding exactly the same and of exactly the same length. That's why I switched it to there. The piece may have been tracked into the cello and ferris wheel scenes, but it seems clear that this is where Barry intended it to go.
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I was attempting to redo my Living Daylights CD to match this order, and noticed an error.
"Approaching Kara" should indeed be cut in half at the 1:24 mark, but the second half is not the piece that plays as Kara retrieves her Violin. Try listening to it with the DVD on, they don't match at all.
The second half of "Approaching Kara" is, in fact, the cue "Arrival in Vienna". My CD burner, which accesses some sort of internet CD database even recognized this title, which isn't on the CD packaging. It called that track "Approaching Kara/Arrival in Vienna". Try matching this music on the DVD as Bond and Kara get off the truck by the ferris wheel and then ride the carriage through Schonbrunn, and she tells him her cello is a Stradivarius. It matches perfectly.
I still left the track "Into Vienna" in the same place, to represent the cue, not on the album, where Bond and Kara kiss on the ferris wheel.
So, the order should be:
13. Exercise at Gibraltar
1. The Living Daylights - Main Title
3. The Sniper Was A Woman
6. Koskov Escapes
7. Where Has Everybody Gone?
2. Necros Attacks
14a. Approaching Kara (0:00-1:20)
5. Kara Meets Bond
4. Ice Chase
14b. Arrival in Vienna (Approaching Kara 1:20-End)
8. Into Vienna (alternate)
15. Murder at the Fair
16. "Assassin" and Drugged
17. Airbase Jailbreak
10. Mujahadin and Opium
18. Afghanistan Plan
9. Hercules Takes Off
11. Inflight Fight
19. Air Bond
20. Final Confrontation
12. If There Was A Man
21. Alternate End Titles
Three corrections/suggestions to The Living Daylights list:"Where Has Everybody Gone?" should go before "Necros Attacks", since there is no appearance of it where the liner notes suggested.
The second half (1:20-End) of "Approaching Kara" is meant to go after "Bond Meets Kara" - it is the music from the scene where Kara goes back to fetch her cello.
"Into Vienna" is an alternate, and since the film version is unreleased, should probably go in its place, between tracks 4 and 15.
In other words, the list should go:
13. Exercise at Gibraltar
1. The Living Daylights - Main Title
3. The Sniper Was A Woman
6. Koskov Escapes
7. Where Has Everybody Gone?
2. Necros Attacks
14a. Kara Is Arrested (Approaching Kara 0:00-1:20)
5. Kara Meets Bond
14b. Retrieving the Cello (Approaching Kara 1:20-End)
4. Ice Chase
8. Into Vienna (alternate)
15. Murder at the Fair
16. "Assassin" and Drugged
17. Airbase Jailbreak
10. Mujahadin and Opium
18. Afghanistan Plan
9. Hercules Takes Off
11. Inflight Fight
19. Air Bond
20. Final Confrontation
12. If There Was A Man
21. Alternate End Titles
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The only error is that False Alarm and Al Capone should be switched so False Alarm comes first.
Does anyone know about this?I found this order for The Untouchables - is it correct?8. The Strength of the Righteous (Main Title)
9. Ness and His Family
2. Al Capone
10. False Alarm
6. Victorious
3. Waiting at the Border
11. The Untouchables
7. The Man with the Matches
12. Four Friends
13. Machine Gun Lullaby
5. On the Rooftops
4. Death Theme
1. The Untouchables (End Title)
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I've added times for the finale to my breakdown above.
Schindler's List - 2CD 25th Anniversary Edition from La-La Land Records (2018)
in JOHN WILLIAMS
Posted
Yep, I read about the reaction in Israel a while back, but I still love that piece of music over that scene, and for American audiences it worked perfectly.