jamesluckard
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Posts posted by jamesluckard
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No, it's not that early. If anything track 5 would go roughly between 10 and 7, because it pretty much has to come once Ray and Rachel are separated from Robbie, at about the halfway point in the film. There's a section of the two of them together in Ogilvy's basement that falls there, and I suspect that's where the track goes.
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I don't remember anything notable that's missing. There's the opening titles music, then about twenty minutes establishing Ray's life with his kids, without any music, as I remember. There might be missing music from after the alien lighting storm at the end of this portion, but only a little, if there even was any. Immediately after this is The Intersection Scene, which is pretty early in the film.
It seemed to me that this was scored much like Schindler's List, with a sizable section without score before the music is introduced.
This comes down to the film's approach, showing everything from the perspective of Ray. We never see or learn a single thing he doesn't. There's no set-up of the aliens or anything, it's all very sudden.
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Saw the film last night, and figured I'd start another thread like I did for ROTS, where I'll put my presumed chronological order for the album, and update it as people give added info:
1) Prologue
4) The Intersection Scene
6) Escape From The City
3) Reaching The Country
9) The Attack On The Car
2) The Ferry Scene
10) The Separation Of The Family
7) Probing The Basement
11) The Confrontation With Ogilvy
13) Escape From The Basket
12) The Return To Boston
14) The Reunion
15) Epilogue
Unknown:
5) Ray And Rachel
8) Refugee Status
I'll bet a couple of tracks will need to be sliced and diced, but it'll be tough to figure out without a copy of the film, because the music doesn't have themes or tunes that are easy to latch onto and distinguish.
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This is probably a stupidly obvious question, but what is the source of all this unreleased music that's noted as "GAL"?
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1m8 - reel 1, cue number 8
3m2 - reel 3, cue number 2
etc...
I'd really be interested in seeing a concise list of tracked music as well, but unfortunately I'm not as familiar with the music of the last two prequels as others are, so I wouldn't be able to assemble such a list.
I'm especially curious about the use of the Arena March during Anakin's entry to the Jedi Temple before the massacre. Which recording is this?
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jimware, I've got a question. When you say that 6M5 is the TPM orchestral recording of DOTF, do you mean the album recording or, I suspect, the film recording, which I assume is on the Ultimate Edition, (which I ordered from Amazon a few days ago.) I want to be sure I put the most accurate info possible in my list atop this thread.
I'm so glad you figured out that the orchestral and choir recordings on that cue were blended from old and new versions, that explains a lot.
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So, here it is, the most current updated cue list, in chronological order, which matches my chronological track listing at the beginning of this thread:
1 - Star Wars Main Title and The Revenge of the Sith
0:00-1:16 1M2 Star Wars (Main Title) (TPM recording)
1:16-3:15 1M3 Boys Into Battle (edited)
3:15-5:21 1M4 They're Coming Around?
5:21-7:31 unused?
7 - Grievous and the Droids
0:00-3:27 2M1
13 - Grievous Speaks to Palpatine
0:00-1:50 2M5 Grievous Travels to Palpatine
2 - Anakin's Dream
0:00-4:46 2M6 Scenes and Dreams (edit)
6 - Palpatine's Teachings
2:27-end 3m1 Council Meeting
6 - Palpatine's Teachings
0:00-1:38 3m3 Palpatines Big Pitch
5 - General Grievous
0:00-1:25 3M7 Riding The Lizard
6 - Palpatine's Teachings
1:38-2:27 4m3 Palpatines Seduction
5 - General Grievous
1:25-2:19 4M4 Rolling with Grievous
2:19-3:34 4M4A Fighting with Grievous
3:34-4:07 4M4 Rolling with Grievous (again, with clean ending)
8 - Padme's Ruminations
0:00-1:36 4M5A Padme's Ruminations
1:36-3:16 5M1 Palpatine Instructs Anakin?
4 - Anakin's Betrayal
0:00-4:03 5M3 Lament
11 - Enter, Lord Vader
0:00-4:14 5M6 Moving Things Along (edited)
10 - Anakin's Dark Deeds
0:00-2:14 5M7 Anakin's Dark Deeds
2:14-4:05 6M1 It Can't Be
13 - Grievous Speaks to Palpatine
1:50-2:39 6M2 A Moody Trip
9 - Anakin Vs. Obi-Wan
0:00-3:57 6M4 Heroes Collide (edited)
3 - Battle of the Heroes
0:00-3:42 Revenge of the Sith DVD Version (concert arrangement of 6M9 Revenge of the Sith)
12 - The Immolation Scene
0:00-2:41 7M1 The Immolation Scene (unedited)
14 - The Birth of the Twins and Padme's Destiny
0:00-1:25 7M3 The Birth of the Twins (edited)
1:25-3:37 7M4 The Death of Padme
15 - A New Hope and End Credits
0:00-1:22 7M7 A Home for the Twins
1:22-13:06 7M8 End Credits
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Thanks, elvisjones, for the breakdown of "Palpatine's Teachings."
Is Jim Ware's suggested breakdown for "General Grievous" correct?
5 - General Grievous
0:00-1:21 3M7 Riding The Lizard
1:21-2:19 4M4 Rolling with Grievous
2:19-3:34 4M4A Fighting with Grievous
3:34-4:07 4M4 Rolling with Grievous (again, with clean ending)
1:21 seems like an odd moment to make the cut between 3M7 and 4M4. Once I have your input on where to cut this track, I'll fix my chronological listing.
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I also wonder about spending six minutes on that endless loop of the throne room in the end credits, that are not in the film. I get that it's meant to tie up the whole series, and I guess it's Williams's show and it's not my place to judge.
Most of all, I'm glad that the album represents mainly the final act of the film. The first 2/3 of the film gets about 5 tracks, while the finale gets 9. With minor exceptions, the whole musical journey of the last act of the film is here and once you stick DOTF in where it belongs, you can really feel the tragedy of the film from Padme's Ruminations through to the conclusion.
I do wonder, however, how anybody who has seen the film and really cared about it can listen to the album as assembled and not feel that it is terribly disjointed. I'd love to someday know the thinking behind the album order of Williams's scores, because they totally escape me. Every time one comes out, I spend hours figuring out how to reassemble it into film order. It's certainly a sign of how good his music is.
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I've seen it twice on genuine 35mm film, two weeks ago and last night. I don't remember either time having Yoda on Dagobah. Is this scene in any version of the film, or was it cut entirely.
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Many thanks elvisjones, if you can tell me where to cut up tracks 5 and 6 properly, I'll amend my list again.
If I remember right, the cut on "General Grievous" should come at 2:20, but I'll wait to hear from you.
Also, I'll add my voice to the call for a 2 disc set. I'd love to get the version of Across the Stars that plays as Padme is reunited with Anakin on Mustafar which moves into a reprise of Lament as he turns on her and chokes her. Right now that sequence seems like the most glaring omission on the album.
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Thanks elvisjones, you've said it much better than I was able to. I have to agree with you. I'm probably wrong about them being identical recordings, but they contain a core section that is absolutely identical.
I think the point we both are making is that BOTH is no "concert arrangement" based on a film theme, with wildly different orchestration and such, but a cue taken intact from the film, although I am sure you are right that there is a slightly altered opening and closing which I just didn't notice.
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When I say "Anakin vs Obi Wan" ends on the same note as the opening of DOTF, I should make something clear. While this is the case with both the album and what we hear in the film, the connection points are not the same.
The long last note of track 9 makes a perfect segue into the opening note of DOTF on an album. However, in the film, the ending of track 9 is cut off and we go into DOTF when it is already going full blast. Still, in the film the two are connected by an identical note, it's just not the same connection as on my homemade album. I wanted to make that clear.
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Tracks 5 & 6 were always where I had trouble, they're clearly made up of multiple cues. When somebody can tell me where to slice and dice them properly, and where to put the pieces, I'll amend the list.
Also, am I right elvisjones, you're saying that track 7 should actually go after track 1 and before the first half of track 13?If so I'll make that change.
As for track 8, it sounds like the unreleased cue "I Am The Senate," for Mace vs Palpatine, would split it up. Snice nobody has it yet, I'll leave that as one track.
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elvisjones, who seems to know the music extremely well, says he heard things in the film version that are different from track 3. It's always possible that I'm wrong, but even if I am, track 3 is extremely close to what is in the film, and is not like some Williams concert arrangements (Abandoned in the Woods, for example) which are enormously different from the film versions. The differences, if they exist, are small.
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I agree, there's a good portion of the beginning of track 3 and some of the end that are not in the film, but I'd still swear most of it is there. However it was such an exciting scene that it's entirely possible I wasn't focused enough on the music to notice slight differences. It sounds like you're much more familiar with the music than I am, elvisjones.
Even if I'm wrong, however, it's extremely close to what's in the film, and not some concert arrangement with little similarity to the film piece, like on some Williams albums, (Abandoned in the Woods on AI, for example)
I think it still should go where I have it on my chronological listing. There's nothing better to represent the second half of Anakin vs Obi Wan and to lead into The Immolation Scene.
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Like I say, it's entirely possible Williams intended it only as a concert version, but it certainly is not just that anymore.
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Just saw it again after listening to the album a great deal over the last two weeks. The recording of Battle of the Heroes on the soundtrack album is NOT a concert version. Maybe it was only intended as one when Williams recorded it in February, but in the film as released it scores the whole second half of the Anakin vs Obi Wan duel, after the Yoda vs Palpatine duel.
I'm usually pretty good at noticing differences in recordings and I'd say I'm 95% sure they're identical.
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Some more notes.
The second half of track 14, called Padme's Destiny, is actually the film version of the music from the creation scene of Vader. The music for Padme's funeral is a different version of this same tune.
"Lament," the choral part of Anakin's Betrayal, also plays again over the later scene where Anakin turns on Padme and chokes her, right before he duels with Obi Wan. It sounded to me a lot like the same recording.
Palpatine's Teachings is a combination of more than one cue. It would need to be cut and mixed with General Grievous, which also needs to be cut and pasted.
This early section of the film will involve a great deal of editing of the soundtrack album, and I just couldn't follow it all.
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Okay, so I'm updating my list after seeing the movie again tonight.
What I was wrong about:
-Enter Lord Vader is indeed the first half of the seperatist slaughter, not the death of Mace Windu, as I thought.
-Anakin's Dark Deeds is what plays over the Emperor announcing the end of the senate, it is intercut with the seperatist slaughter. How I forgot this is a mystery. The second half, the quieter bit, plays over Obi Wan visiting Padme and telling her that Anakin has gone to the dark side, the final flourish is for the scene of Anakin, alone, on Mustafar, having killed the seperatists.
What I was right about
-Battle of the Heroes is most definitely NOT a concert version. It plays over the whole final section of the duel on Mustafar. I've been listening to it for two weeks and can say with 95% certainty that these are identical recordings.
Another thing I was wrong about
-Duel of the Fates is not the Ep I album concert version, perhaps it is the film version off the UE of Ep I. I don't have that.
However I was right about:
-Anakin vs Obi Wan does indeed end on the same note as DOTF, allowing them to flow into each other. Until my copy of the EpI UE arrives in a few days, I'll leave my list to suggest using the album concert version. You certainly need some version of DOTF on your CD, and since the opening titles music is lifted off the EpI recording, no reason not to lift DOTF as well yourself.
Now I'll review my notes from the film and see if there's anything I'm forgetting.
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It's true, track 3 is a concert suite. However, the finale of the film goes Anakin vs Obi Wan part 1, Yoda vs Emperor, Anakin vs Obi Wan part 2.
Yoda vs Palpatine is scored with Duel of the Fates, most likely the Ep I album recording. Anakin vs Obi Wan parts 1 and 2 are scored with various incarnations of the new Battle of the Heroes theme.
As was pointed out before, the track "Anakin vs Obi Wan" ends on the exact same note as the album recording of "Duel of the Fates" begins with on Ep I, so it's a perfect segue into it.
I then put the concert recording of Battle of the Heroes on after DOTF to represent the second half of the Anakin vs Obi Wan duel, which is the largest portion of it. This may not be the exact music from that sequence, but it takes its place well.
And as I said, the Yoda vs Palpatine scene was too important to leave DOTF off the album. It was my favorite scene in the film and I'm frankly amazed they didn't just put the old Ep I recording on this album, there was certainly room.
I'll update my list at the top after I see the film again tomorrow. Now that I've been listening to the album I burned for two weeks, I think I'm pretty familiar with it and should be able to hear things I didn't the first time.
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I don't think they're talking about a bootleg 2 disc album of the complete score, but about burning a 2 disc chronological CD of the soundtrack album, mixing in the classical pieces and pop source music as well. There's a guide for doing that at the MR page that I submitted. I've never heard of any other music from MR being available.
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I had some free time. (Okay, I admit, too much free time) about two years ago and did just this. It took forever, because even the versions on the 2 disc academy promo are not always identical to the film versions. Also, the final ice planet sequence seems to have been edited together differently for the film and the promo.
Here, first, is the tracklisting for my homemade album. I loved the album versions too much to leave them off, so I included them at the end.
DISC ONE
1)PENDING (3:34)
2)DAVID’S NEW HOME (2:45)
3)A FEW SIMPLE PROCEDURES (2:41)
4)HIDE AND SEEK (3:29)
5)IMPRINTING PROTOCOL (4:02)
6)PERFUME/”WILL YOU DIE?”/TEDDY (4:12)
7)MARTIN COMES HOME (2:01)
8)“THIS IS MY SON” (1:29)
9)A BIRD (2:17)
10)READING PINOCCHIO (1:36)
11)“DOES HE EAT?” (1:02)
12)“IT DOESN’T HURT” (2:08)
13)A LOCK OF HAIR (3:47)
14)THE POOL (1:43)
15)“DEAR MOMMY”/A DRIVE (3:26)
16)ABANDONED IN THE WOODS (2:00)
17)I ONLY HAVE EYES FOR YOU (4:07)
DICK POWELL
18)GUYS AND DOLLS (2:54)
STUBBY KAYE AND JOHNNY SILVER
19)THE MOON RISING (5:51)
20)WHAT ABOUT US? (5:53)
MINISTRY
21)DAVID & JOE’S ESCAPE/WE FOUND HIM/
AFRAID OF THE MOON (2:19)
22)MECHA, ORGA, MAN OR WOMAN (0:47)
23)CHEEK TO CHEEK (5:03)
FRED ASTAIRE
24)ROUGE CITY (3:33)
25)COME AWAY O HUMAN CHILD (1:27)
DISC TWO
1)WHERE THE LIONS WEEP/
I’M DAVID (7:06)
2)REPLICAS/THE PLUNGE (5:58)
3)THE SEARCH FOR THE BLUE FAIRY (6:12)
4)ICE PLANET/BACK HOME/
THE BLUE FAIRY (11:42)
5)DAVID & THE SPECIALIST (4:02)
6)THE REUNION (7:47)
7)WHERE DREAMS ARE BORN (4:20)
BONUS TRACKS
8)HIDE AND SEEK (3:08)
ALBUM VERSION
9)ABANDONED IN THE WOODS (3:07)
ALBUM CONCERT ARRANGEMENT
10)THE MOON RISING (4:26)
ALBUM CONCERT ARRANGEMENT
11)ROUGE CITY (2:56)
ALBUM VERSION
12)WHERE THE LIONS WEEP/
I’M DAVID (6:23)
ALBUM VERSION
13)ICE PLANET/BACK HOME/
THE BLUE FAIRY (10:56)
ALBUM VERSION
Now, since the promo had no track titles, and the soundtrack album had often illogical track titles, here's a guide to assembling my album. You'll also need to buy three other albums, "Hollywood's Best: The Thirties," "Guys and Dolls" and "Ministry: Greatest Fits" if you want the whole soundtrack.
A=Soundtrack Album
P1=Promo Album, Disc 1
P2=Promo Album, Disc 2
H=Hollywood's Best
G=Guys and Dolls
M=Ministry
T=track
DISC ONE
1 - P1-T2
2 - P2-T2
3 - P2-T4
4 - P1-T3
5 - P2-T6
6 - P1-T8
7 - P2-T5
8 - P2-T7
9 - P2-T8
10 - P1-T9
11 - P2-T10
12 - P2-T11 (unused in the film)
13 - P2-T12
14 - P2-T13
15 - P2-T14
16 - P1 - First 2 mins of T5
17 - H-T6
18 - G-T6
19 - P1-T10
20 - M-T1
21 - P2-T15
22 - P2-T16
23 - H-T11
24 - P1 - Last 3:30 of T5
25 - P2-T17
DISC TWO
1 - P1-T1
2 - P1-T9
3 - P1-T7
4 - P1-T4
5 - P2-T18
6 - A-T12 (the film version of The Reunion is on the album,not the promo. I played them both against the DVdand am certain of this.)
7 - A-T9
8 - A-T4
9 - A-T2
10 - A-T7
11 - A-last 2:56 of T10
12 - A-T1
13 - A-T8
Although a small bit of track 6 on disc 1 of the promo album does indeed appear in the film, it is in the middle of track 4, and I didn't want to try to cut that apart, so I just left track 6 off. You could try to figure out where to splice it in if you really wanted to.
Here are links for the other CDs. You could leave the pop songs off, I just liked how they helped the flow.
Hollywood's Best
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...=music&n=507846
Ministry
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00...1350796-3633602
Guys and Dolls
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00...1350796-3633602
Any other questions, just ask me.
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What most surprised me was how much it was improved by putting it in chronological order. I know Williams has always had this interest in creating albums that are a unique listening experience, but honestly, is there going to be anybody who liked the music enough to buy the album but not enough to remember the basic order it came in? Especially Williams's music, which is so good that, as Spielberg likes to say, you can listen to it and still get the movie. When it's all out of order I'm sorry but it sounds out of order.
I thought this album was okay when I first listened to it, but once I put it in order and, equally importantly, added Duel of the Fates in where it belonged off my EpI CD, I fell in love with the score and have been listening to it for the last week evey chance I get. This certainly wasn't the case with AOTC, which I listened to three or four times, then promptly consigned to my Williams shelf.
The album as bought doesn't grab me, but the reorganized CD I burned is one of my favorite score albums in years.
Report: Spielberg's Next Filming and Release Date Set
in General Discussion
Posted
The release date has actually been set for a couple of months. Another two-Spielberg-movie-year, quite a treat. Interesting how 1993 was Jurassic Park then Schindler's List, 1997 was Lost World and Amistad and now 2005 is WOTW and Vengeance. Each time mixing a big actioner and a challenging historical drama, just showing he's capable of absolutely anything.