Hellgi
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Posts posted by Hellgi
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Sure
I can only tell you from the CD:
1. Prologue: Book II And The Escape From The Dursley's/Ross
2. Fawkes The Phoenix/Williams
3. Chamber Of Secrets,/Williams
4. Gilderoy Lockhart /Williams
5. Flying Car /Willams
6. Knockturn Alley / Ross
7. Introducing Colin / Ross
8. Dueling Club / Willams
9. Dobby The House Elf / Willams
10. Spiders / William
11. Moaning Myrtle / Willams
12. Meeting Aragog / Willams
13. Fawkes Is Reborn / Willams
14. Meeting Tom Riddle / Ross
15. Cornish Pixies real / Ross
16. Polyjuice Potion / Ross
17. Cakes For Crabbe And Goyle/ Ross
18. Dueling The Basilisk / Williams
19. Reunion Of Friends / Ross
20. Harry's Wondrous World /well....
You're right on all of them, except for Prologue: Book II, which is John Williams (Escape from the Durlsey's is from Ross).
Oh, for those interested - I have the final, official, conductor score in front of me - you know, the complete sketches from which the orchestration was done as well as the copying by JoAnn Kane Music Service for the recording in London (they always create a couple of masters at the end of a recording project). Of course this comes with the full cue list indicating who sketched what (that's for those who can't see the difference between John's and Bill's handwriting). Anyone has questions? Time to get them answered.
F
Also, I'd like to take that opportunity to comment on KM's quote, which he so cleverly put in his signature for all to see:
*In addition to that new material, Williams took several themes and expanded them into more developed pieces for the soundtrack album. "I was stunned by the amount of music he wrote," says Ross. "We were on the 12th day of a 13-day recording schedule and I received a package with new cues to record. That night I actually called John and told him I was sending the music police to confiscate his pencil! I think he just couldn't stop writing." Ross did not compose any new material himself; everything he wrote was based on John's material. Williams insisted, though, that Ross receive a "Music Adapted by" credit onscreen. "That credit was something that John insisted on from our first meeting," says Ross. "The reality, however, is that CHAMBER OF SECRETS is a John Williams score beginning to end."Nothing in that excerpt contradicts what I said originally. The only thing where I would ask for a mea culpa after checking the original sketches is in terms of how many minutes of music JW actually composed and how many were adapted by BR. After a quick look, it seems JW sketched about 18 cues, BR sketched about 55. I originally stated 20 minutes of music for Williams and 80 for Ross; it might be a bit more for the former and a bit less for the later. I'd have to add all the cue lengths to get a better idea.
Hellgi
ps. the guy who said that the sketches were all JW's handwriting either had only a fifth of the sketches, or has a pretty bad eye-sight.
pps. KM's tendency to be paranoid is pretty amazing indeed.
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Yeah, putting the exact same cue into a CD twice = bad.
"Dry Your Tears, Afrika" is a good example too... what is it doing at the beginning of the Amistad OST? It's not even the suite version... and it shows up in a shorter version at the end!
Never got that either
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Anyway, on a musical stand point, I enjoyed this concert much more than the one in San Diego last February. Moreover the accoustics were very good - at least from where I was seating (second balcony, in the middle).
Couldn't agree more! This venue had better acoustics as well as intimacy.
It's interesting how a smaller venue (the stage was pretty much packed) doesn't prevent William's orchestrations to work. It's so well orchestrated that his stuff would work anywhere... there's an amazing balance between all the sections and even within the sections. Really great. No wonder why most orchestral composers copy his orchestrations.
Hellgi
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I find interesting the fact that JW put "Hymn to the Fallen" twice on Saving Private Ryan's OST, even though Spielberg specifically mentioned that he wanted the piece to appear only at the end of the film, to create some sort of "after-the-fact" thought-process on what the film was about.
I never really understood why JW put it at the beginning of the CD. (*and* a 2nd time at the end of the CD, for that matter).
Although it's one of my favorite William's piece
Hellgi
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As far as I know, many (if not most) composers oversee themselves the track listing and order for their soundtracks. The OST being one of the only medium over which they have some control, they do usually take the time to work on it or - at least - to approve the final version.
My personal preference is to get the score in listening order. However, especially nowadays, between the time that the composer wrote the score and the final movie gets in theater, scenes get cut, moved, replaced or even deleted. The music is sometimes heavily edited by the music editor, and what you get on the final soundtrack is rarely what the composer wrote...
I think the question in itself is interesting... For example, if I had to take only one Star Wars Episode 1 CD, I would (personally) favor the original 1-CD release. Even though it is missing crucial parts from JW's score, it is nonetheless better presented than the 2-CD release in my opinion. (As far as I know JW didn't oversee the 2-CD release, he didn't care much for it).
I've heard multiple times that John Williams believes what's on a CD should not be exact same thing than what's in the film. He considers the CD as a medium in itself and always tries to create some sort of "listening experience", so that the music makes sense from the first track to the last. In a sense, music that is on a CD should be good enough to live on its own (away from the film), and thus does not necessarily need to be in chronological order.
So, usually I take what JW gives me and don't change the track order. Although I must admit that I do not always agree with his choices.
There was no excuse for having the original 1-CD Phantom Menace be so full of edits and out of order, not to mention the same music presented twice. There was certainly enough good cues to simply pick some and put them on a 75-minute CD with minimal editing. Hook is a great example. The album is basically in order and most of the cues are intact. Sure, the diehard fans want the rest of the score, but that was a well put together album.Since the 2-CD release is basically exactly what's in the movie, it's also full of edits (although edits in chronological order).
I know JW didn't put his stamp (to say it lightly) on the whole "duel of the fates" disaster so when I hear it at the end of the "Ultimate Edition" release I want to throw up.
My personal favorite are the original trilogy Special Edition CDs. They might be some stuff missing but I love the way the music is presented; pretty much in chronological order, with most of the full orchestra suites, some extra music and great booklet. *That's* what I want
Hellgi
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Absolutely loved the audience last night. Seems you need to do this in a university campus to get that kind of standing ovations
People were cheering like crazy at the end! JW seemed really amused by it... at one point he looked up there towards the first and second balcony, he waved at us and we all waved back... man that was great.Musically speaking this was the first time I attended a concert with the USC symphony and I am absolutely blown away by the quality of this orchestra, mainly composed of students if I am not mistaken... I thought the string and woodwind sections sounded extremely good. The percussion section was great, except for a few mistakes here and there. The brass section was good overall, but a few rotten apples (if I may say so) took the whole section down on some occasions (not too many, thanksfully - but this shows again how harder JW's music is than it seems!).
My personal favorites were the Imperial March (trombones did a great job!), the woodwind piece from Harry Potter, and E.T.
Wasn't too much impressed by Schindler's List... probably my fault - I can't get away from Itzhak Perlman's playing on the original CD. The violinist did a fine job, but to me it's nowhere near what Perlman achieved
Also, I thought Sayuri's theme really showed how good the string section was. Very much together, very precise and full... very nice job there too.
Anyway, on a musical stand point, I enjoyed this concert much more than the one in San Diego last February. Moreover the accoustics were very good - at least from where I was seating (second balcony, in the middle).
I also really loved the student setting, this being a music school were JW taught, he was greeted like a huge star. The whole auditorium was packed... it was great to see such a warm reception. JW really seemed to appreciate it too, he looked like he was having a great time working with those fine musicians and still so young!
Hellgi
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Yes, and misunderstood.
Completely. I made fun of the movie even before it was released (to my defense, the teaser with Paul Veroehven really sucked). I was really blown away once I sat down and watched it though. I can only thank the friend who convinced me to watch it.
Hellgi
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But I can understand why he would submit Munich for nomination. The movie was nominated Best Picture, after all, and if that had won, chances for him would have been also good. But obviously Memoirs meant more to him, that's why he advertised it on The Tonight Show.I doubt Williams himself put Munich up for nomination.
In the weeks before the Oscars, Williams was very active plugging Memoirs, not munich.
Well, even if he didn't, I'm sure he's got some say in it.Studios and/or producers lobby for movie nominations / wins, rarely the artists themselves.
Munich was distributed by Universal Pictures while Geisha was distributed by Sony Pictures. Both studios were lobbying for their respective movies.
As a side note, checking out Variety or The Hollywood Reporter around the awards season gives a good idea of how a stupid or bad movie/score gets nominated... it's called clever PR and intensive advertising
Hellgi
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I heard that he does golf a lot.
Also, Williams *does* get invited to do a *lot* of movies. But GSA and/or JW turn them down most of the time.
Hellgi
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Wow... can't wait to hear Giacchino's take on Star Trek. I personally really liked his MI3's score... very respectful modernization of Schiffrin's style.
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I think we all should get used to the fact that, one day, there will be no new scores by Williams. This point in his career actually seems like an excellent opportunity for him to sit back and take a more relaxed approach to his filmic work unless the project is worth the bother of breaking his gradual retirement.
Believe me, Williams is far from retiring. From what I heard, Williams wouldn't stand the simple idea of retiring... I actually think we can expect he will never stop writing film scores. My guess is that he's just getting more and more "picky" about selecting movies he actually wants to works on.
2006 was pretty slow in terms of potential William's scores... no Spielberg, Lucas, Columbus, or any other williams-affiliated director... this might explain that.
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I have to respect Scorcese for acknowledging Howard Shore in his Oscar speech.
Completely agree... shows he understand the quality of a good director/composer's collaboration.
... even though I never really liked how little original music his movies usually have.
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Or you could say I'm William Ross' assistant. Sounds better to me
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Wow, someone finally thought about googling my nickname
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Let's not go back to the CoS discussion *again*
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that's cool. Nice job last night! What do you play?
~JW
I play the piano... but I certainly wasn't there as an instrumentalist.. let's say I have a good connection
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The Academy rules that a score is ineligible if it is "assembled from the music of more than one composer." Since the only official document that has this kind of information is the cue sheet credits list, and since Hans Zimmer always put a lot more than one composer there (as his way to thank the team of people who worked with him), this disqualifies most of Zimmer's works.
Many composers believe you shouldn't put any other name than yours on a cue sheet credits if you actually wrote the whole score. Zimmer's use of the cue sheet credits to "reward" "teammates" is going against that .
At the same time, the current rule prevents a collaboration like "Batman Begins" to be nominated, while they do give Oscars to multiple recipients in many other categories (including Best Picture). Since the Oscar is for "original score" and not "best composer", Zimmer's plea is not necessarily baseless.
Hellgi
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this thread makes me me laugh, for the sheer fact that no one except Neil, Mr. Breathmask, and maybe 2 other people seem to get what an honorary oscar is.
I think that the purpose and definition of the Honorary Oscar changes according to the mood of the Academy that specific year. I mean, it's like the rules for each category... they change every now and then, when the related board's members feel like it.
Maybe next year the Music division will find a way to prevent Gustavo Santaolalla to win again
Or maybe they will comply with Hans Zimmer's wishes and make it ok for multiple-composers scores to be eliglible. Who knows?
Hellgi
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I was.
... but if you don't believe me I'm not sure saying again that I was will make you change your mind
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I have a question for people that were there though...It seemed that John sure waved his arms a lot, particularly to the string section on the left closet to the edge of the stage. Is he always that animated or was that section lagging at points?
I agree with you - in that particular instance he was moving his arms *a lot* more than usual for a conductor, or even any other times I saw him conduct. I guess he was trying to convey something very specific - maybe he noticed during the rehearsal that the strings were a little too soft, or were somehow lagging. As a conductor myself, I found Williams' gestures to the string section to be "too much" for what was required by the actual music, and I believe he probably knew that, but that he felt it necessary in order to reach the sound he was looking for from the violin section.
Hellgi
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This is completely OT
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I really don't get this "competition" thing; John Williams being a BETTER composer than Ennio Morricone, this other guy being worst, etc etc. Why can't they just be *different* composers, each with his own strength and weaknesses? I find this very puzzling.
In the 18th century, people said that Salieri was a better composer than Mozart, and look where we are now: everybody saying Mozart's a freaking genius (which he is) and Salieri sucks. In fact, Salieri's music is, I think, very good and overlooked.
My point is that you should listen and enjoy to the music you like, and not focus on who's the best. Who cares anyway... do you feel any better comparing the two?
I love John William's music and he *is* the reason why I am in this business, but I really don't think about the whole thing as a competition. I enjoy working with all the composer's I have been working with, and many of them don't get the recognition they deserve even though they are amazing composers. So I decided not to care anymore.
Enjoy the music and stop worrying about who's the best... because nobody knows.
Anyway, that's my point of view.
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The voters don't care about the musical acomplishment, they'll vote for the score that resonated with them the most. We know that there's a world of difference between Santaolalla and Navarrette, Glass, Newman and Desplat. But we are a tiny minority, a tiny niche market, thast judging by most limited releases, has about 3000 core, card-carrying members world-wide. But to everyone else- they'll vote for the music they heard, felt and liked most. In this case, apparantly that was Babel. The only real question is why on earth the Music Branch, which should theoretically be more attuned to the specifics of each score, didn't see the shortcomings of this score.
I completely agree with you.
Regarding your question about the music branch, the connections I have tell me that most of them *do not understand* what Babel was doing here. My guess is that most composers voted for the other guys.
I guess only the Academy has an idea of how many votes each nominated composers got in the first round. And we all know the first round's winner is not necessarily the second round's.
Hellgi
What exactly did William Ross do in Harry Potter the Chamber of Secrets
in JOHN WILLIAMS
Posted
As far as I know, there's none, and I never implied there was. My original statement was that Ross wrote cues for CoS, when some people said he didn't.
You use semantic (basically saying that "adapting music is not composing" or "writing music is not necessarily composing") to prove your point (ie. "Bill Ross didn't compose anything").
I never said what he did was writing 100% original, new material (which has never been Bill's job anyway). My original post's goal was to discredit people who claimed Ross didn't do anything on CoS, or that his music was rejected and replaced by Williams', or that he didn't even conduct the score. It's simply false... I had sketches in front of me no latter than 2 hours ago proving that (and I'll have them again tomorrow morning).
Ross did write music on CoS, and much more than people thought or claimed. I can tell you exactly how much he wrote. I could even technically scan all the scores for you to look at and spend a week analyzing, but there's 500 pages of music, and I strangely don't feel like doing it
But sure, we already agreed on that: if writing music is not composing, then you're right. Bill Ross probably didn't compose a lot (if anything at all) on CoS.
Hellgi