Hellgi
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Posts posted by Hellgi
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I would tend to agree with pi, but I do not believe the conductor knows beforehand. Only the accountants who tallied the votes know before the envelope is opened.
The show's director doesn't know. The producer doesn't know. The host doesn't know. No. One. Knows.
The orchestra and the conductor is just quick on their feet, sp to speak. They do rehearse the pieces beforehand, and for the most part, there are only 15 film cues to rehearse. As with last night, they played most of them (11 different feature films won Oscars last night).
I have to give them props for being able to play after hearing "Shakespeare in Love" and "Crash" win Best Picture.
Indeed the conductor doesn't know beforehand. No one knows. It would actually be much easier if the conductor and the orchestra knew, but they don't.
They are about 25-30 pieces of music to rehearse and to know, one for each film - the only categories where a generic piece of music is used are documentary (short and feature), best animated short and foreign film. This year though, both An Inconvenient Truth and Pan's Labyrinth had a specific play-on.
The conductor and the orchestra learn the winner as it is announced by the presenter, quickly find the piece of music on their 3-page sheet and they play it. It's that simple...
Hellgi
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They talk about the secrecy of the sealed envelopes, that only 1 person knows the results before it is opened... So how is it that the orchestra is ready to play the theme music for each winner within a 1/2 second of the announcement?
iirc they orchestrate and practice for all, but only when they sit in their seat do they have the "final" composition sheets. There's no name on them so people sitting in the seats can't peak at the bottom pit.
It's the same thing for the best animated feature, they have to do a "winner" and "loser" variation.
Here's the true and only story: for most categories, the orchestra has a three-page score with a play-on for the 5 possible winners, clearly labeled. They have 1-2 seconds to find the good one (sometimes more when the names or movie title are long) and off they go on the conductor's downbeat.
Hellgi
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I'm quite sure that Ralph Grierson was one of the session pianist on E.T. (it was mentioned in an old article on FSM).
I actually heard that, as crazy as it sounds, he actually sight-read the score and that the orchestra players gave him a huge applause at the end of the session.
Hellgi
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[H]e was happy for us commenting that he had yet to meet Mr. Williams and was curious about what he would think of him performing his Bassoon Concerto.
We ended up giving Zac a very nice tip and he was very thankful.
Of course, looking back when Valentin said "I have yet to meet Mr. Williams..." I should have said "Neither have I can you get me backstage????"
That quote makes me think that they did indeed have only one rehearsal for the concert... pretty amazing.
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I admit I used to get angry when people clapped and made a ruckus during the performance, but its something to be expected.
Me too... but I've come to the realization that this is where Williams' true genius lies. This guy created the most well-known pieces of music of this century (and by that I mean, known by the widest audience). The only person that comes close to my mind in that aspect is Mozart.
So when I hear people clap and laugh when they recognize "The Mission" or Indiana Jones, I hear it as a proof of Williams' genius. Of course I recognize Indiana Jones on the first chord - but it's really when the theme comes in that 99% of the audience figured it out. Making millions of people to recognize your music just by playing the first four notes of its main theme, that is a freaking big achievement, if you ask me.
It's always a great treat to see smiles on so many people's face, especially when you realize it's thanks to music!
Hellgi
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Anyway, what can you expect out of such little practice?
It is my understanding that there was only one rehearsal on the same day... if that's the case, that's definitely tough... And anyway, as my friend who lives in San Diego told me: "What were you expecting, to hear the London Symphony?".
However, expecting a horn player to play the right notes and play in tune is not asking a lot I think...
Also, who was the bold one who shouted "Happy Birthday John!"?It was a guy in the orchestra seats, stage left... I'd say about third row from the stage. JW looked at him and waved his finger like saying "it was yesterday!"
Also at the start of the concert, when JW got the "present" from the SD Symphony, a guy right next to me yelled "YOU'RE A LEGEND!!!". Talk about geek fest
Hellgi
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My thoughts:
The good:
- John Williams!!!
- The choice of pieces was interesting, especially The Cowboys, Geisha, the arrangements by John Williams, and - in general - all the pieces which got performed with video
- Close Encounter of the Third Kind: great performance IMO
The bad:
- The 1st violin (Schindler's list...)
- Ensemble issues: the sections weren't very tight and sometimes had a hard time being together.
- English horn player in Geisha
- Brass section in Imperial March
The ugly:
- The Copley Symphony Hall isn't good acoustically: We had pretty good orchestra seats, but couldn't hear the strings (somehow, the further away the instrument, the better we could hear it)
- The horn section wasn't tight and very often the players were out of tune with each other
- The first horn player's playing was way below what one can expect from a professional player. His various solos (especially in Princess Leia's Theme) were played badly; he had a hard time reaching high notes; and often times it seems he was playing the music for the first time (no practice). Maybe he was sick?
Anyway... it was a nice evening... but I was a bit disapointed! At least it gave me the chance to see JW for the second time in a live performance (but I consider his Pittsburgh performance in 2000 to be far superior).
Hellgi
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I've worked at churches.Like, every sunday at one of the churches I attend, we perform maybe... 30 minutes of music... all of which I arrange and oversee the orchestratiosn of.
This music has to be written, arranged, and ready to be practied in a span of a few days (from sunday night following mass to tuesday night) Then by wednesday night, I bring it in and it's practiced, critiqued and given out to each instrumentalist to learn.
(...)
Then it dawned on me one day. To a lesser degree, I'm almost preparing myself for thigns like that. Having a constant deadline and making sure things are written in time for them to be practiced and performed. I guess it kinda gave me confidence.
I think you are totally right about that!
Attending a school is a great idea, especially if you're from a foreign country (as I), because it allows you to be in the states *and* gives you one year of "pratical training" after your course of study, during which you can work legally as much as you want. Then it's not too hard to switch to a short-term work visa.I'm finishing my AA here in Florida, and I plan to move to california... go to one of the colleges there for music and film. I would probably live in the state for a year first...working... so that I can be considered a resident and such.And then go from there. I feel it can work.
Also, going to a school in LA or related to the biz allows you to make friends and network (friends first though!). There's no better way to meet new people!
Oh, I also meant to ask about your alls thoughts on entering the Young Film Composers Compettiont for TCM? Do you think that's a valid way to get your name out there or to try?I believe there's nothing ever wrong in trying things. You might not get a job out of this, but whatever happens, the experience will be valuable down the road. Even if you don't win!
Most of the things I do, pay off later. Sometimes a few months later, sometimes many years. Whatever you do, it will help. The big mistake is to do nothing, hoping that the golden job falls down from the sky, and being angry at other people's success.
I believe that you can only start turning job opportunities or gigs down when you've already been doing that thing for a few years, you know you're good at it and there's nothing else you can learn by doing it (which is pretty rare).
Success doesn't come out of sheer luck... All of the successful guys today made it because of all these small things, all these small steps, which ultimately counted a lot.
Jerome
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And you do have something to back up your notions? I've been following the Oscars for a very long time, and while a lot of it does seem like nominating and voting for the right people, a lot of it smells of choosing the best speech maker, making up for years past, trying to get in line with popular opinion, trying to provide a sensational moment. You are the first person I've encountered who honestly believes that everyone simply votes for what they think is the best. The notion of Eddie Murphy performing sounds more exciting than most other songs' singer in the past year, and as there are almost no songs I care enough to award, I'd put in a note for the song I'd most like to see performed live. And I'm sure that there are those in the music branch who feel similar.
First, I believe it's the people who criticize who should support their statements, not the other way around.
Second, regarding my references, if you must know, I am currently working on the music side of the 79th AA, and I personnaly work(ed) for a bunch of composers who are members of the academy, obviously in the music category. One of them is on the Academy's executive board. That doesn't make me the most well-informed person on the planet about the Academy Awards, but at least I get my info from the source.
Also, I never said the actual winners were chosen well - I said that when it comes down to their own categories, most members are professional enough to know what they are talking about.
If you never encountered one person (besides me) who "honestly believes that everyone simply votes for what they think is best", you probably have no connection whatsoever with the actual people who are *members* and who *do* vote.
And by the way, it is not because there are "almost no songs [you] care enough to award" that everybody feels your way, especially in the industry.
You seem to be "sure" of many things, but up till now didn't give any hard facts to support your thoughts.
Hellgi
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(...) What do they care about voting for the best song? No one in the world cares about the Best song oscar, aside from the people who win. I'm sure people often vote for the person they'd most like to see on stage, especially in a year when they most probably don't have too many favorites.
You have no idea what you are talking about *and* you have nothing to support your statements.
It really bothers me when people criticize something without having anything to back up their criticisms.
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Dude, there's no "conspiracy" from the Academy members in the music category to nominate one or many songs of the same movie, just to get Eddie Murphy on stage.
What? Of course there is! Historically they nominate the songs they'd most like see performed. And they just love Randy Newman. So often the oscar nominate and vote for the people they'd most like to see on stage.
Do you guys have any tangible proof as a source to support your statements?
Here's how it works: the members from the music category attend a special meeting where they listen to each song submitted by the studios that fit in the category (there's about 50 of them). If you don't go to this meeting, you can't vote.
Right now, the producers and the people involved with the music for the actual 79th AA show don't even know who will perform. Heck, they don't even know yet what to do with those 3 Dreamgirls songs, and they don't know for sure if they will get Eddie Murphy (or anyone else, at this point) to perform on stage. I can even tell you there were talks until yesterday to *not* have any songs being performed live!
So, to sum up; you're a member of the Academy in the music category (which makes me think that you kinda know about the craft); you took the time out of your busy schedule to go to a 3-hour meeting; you listen to 50 songs; and then you just vote for the song you want to see performed on stage, even though nobody knows for sure if it will and if it does, who's going to perform?
Sorry but that doesn't make any sense to me.
They just vote for the song they think is the best. Stage performance or not.
Hellgi
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Song: "I Need to Wake Up," An Inconvenient Truth (first song nominated from a documentary)
"I Love You I Do," Dreamgirls
"Listen," Dreamgirls
"Our Town," Cars (Randy's back after five years)
"Patience," Dreamgirls (third film to have three song nominees)
This means Jennifer Hudson, Beyonce and Eddie Murphy might perform at the show. That's why they nominated the songs.
Dude, there's no "conspiracy" from the Academy members in the music category to nominate one or many songs of the same movie, just to get Eddie Murphy on stage.
Hellgi
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I am currently working in the film music industry in Los Angeles.
I had no connections originally but I'm lucky enough that my parents could affort paying for an American college education (I'm originally from France, where college education costs less than $1000 a year). I went to Berklee College of Music and got my bachelor's, majoring in Film Scoring. It's not too hard once you graduate from Berklee to find small gigs in the music business in LA... and if you are good, if you know the craft and the technical stuff well, and if you're clever enough in the way you network, you'll slowly find your own path...
Hellgi
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Well, this is what Russell has to say about it on his myspace page:Just a brief note to tell you how excited I am that I just signed James Newton Howard on to compose the score for "The Waterhorse." I loved his scores for "The Sixth Sense" and "Signs." I thought both pieces had a wonderful combination of tension and mysticism. Not the easiest musical feat to accomplish.
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseacti...c5-7db8ed0f7764
Well, he's probably exited to be working with JNH. I mean, it's JNH we're talking about. It's not like someone forced him to work with [put-the-name-of-your-least-favorite-composer-here].
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I read yesterday in an SCL (www.thescl.com) email that the concert is Sold Out already. The tickets won't go on sale to the public...
Ugh! What a bummer. Well, I'll try on Sunday anyway, but I won't get my hopes up
I'll go check too to make sure...
The hall is about 2300 seats... and it got sold out in less than a week? Something's up!
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The movie is over budget and Russell had to do get more producers on board. It seems one of them wanted JNH, and it was hard to say no. Plus, JNH is a great composer, so it's not like it was the worst dilemna.
Hellgi
ps. Ross is alive and well... he has been working on other things that film scores per say, but you'll hear about him soon... he's currently working on something pretty big (can't say what yet though).
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I read yesterday in an SCL (www.thescl.com) email that the concert is Sold Out already. The tickets won't go on sale to the public...
The SCL pre-ordered a few tickets for its members; they were all gone in less than 24 hours... See this quote from their second email:
THIS EVENT IS NOW SOLD OUT -- No tickets available from the SCL, and we have been informed by the L.A. Philharmonic that no tickets are available from the L.A. Philharmonic -- they are sold out, tickets will not go on sale to the general public as there are no more tickets. If any become available, we will let you know.That sucks!
Hellgi
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Howard was hired just recently by director Jay Russell
I would rather say that Howard was hired by one of the producers... Such is life in Hollywood.
Not that Howard will do a bad job. He will do an *amazing* job. But he wasn't Russell's original choice.
Hellgi
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L.A. Confidential!
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Thanks Pete - I'm not really put off - been around the internet and various message boards for a long time and I know how people considered as "newbies" get treated by some "seniors".
It's ok. I wasn't trying to say that I knew everything about John Williams. When I heard this piece of information, considering how thin it is, I thought the only people interested by it could be you guys at JFWan.net.
So if someone here thought the info, however small it is, to be interesting, I'm happy I passed it along.
Now, just so you guys now, I actually did quite a lot of postings on this board - I think I joined it at the time it was running on a very "amateur" board system - can't remember the name, but anyway, I know that my account was lost and I didn't join it again for time reasons. I used to have big debate here. I also indeed did write an article (a concert review actually) a few years ago.
All that doesn't make me the leading authority on John Williams, but that doesn't make me a newbie either. Not that I care anyway. I'm just trying to show how the "official" member status of someone doesn't sum up this member at all.
Good day!
Hellgi
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Isn't it? Probably a fake story. I wouldn't listen to that either.
Good day.
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Lol, that's funny.
So, William Ross was asked to write the score, which got rejected, and then John Williams jumped out of his crazy schedule on Catch Me if You Can to write the whole score.
Which he didn't conduct, obviously, because he hates so much conducting his own music.
In the end, William Ross kept his credit as arranger even though none of his music made it to the final mix, for purely legal matters.
Yeah, it makes sense. If you believe in conspiracy theories, that is (which I agree might be more entertaining to believe.)
Sadly, I have to report that the truth is much simpler.
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So after all of this debate and discussion, what have we learned?
William Ross adapted John Williams music for Chamber of Secrets.
Thanks for enlightening us!
Neil
If you read correctly, you learned that Williams didn't write more than 20 minute of new material, and that the rest, minus the previous and new themes written by Williams, is William Ross writing Harry Potter-style music.
You also learned that the following statements:
I'm of the impression he wrote everything will William Ross finetuned it to the movie. Am I right?
Williams just conducted the score, which was composed entirely by William Ross
didnt williams compose all the music? -- Yes he did
its been determined that Williams wrote all the new music, and that Ross adapted a few pieces.
while its not entirely known what happened, its fairly obvious that Williams did not care for what Ross had done.
95% of what is on the soundtrack album is composed by Williams.
Ross original music was rejected, then Williams was going to make just the new themes. In the end, Williams had to write all new music, and i suppose Ross arranged existent cues to fit new scenes.
yes, JW wrote them all [the cues]
... are untrue.
Hellgi
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Hellgi's account corresponds more or less with the official version of what we were told about this score.
Sometimes the "official" version is closer to the truth than what we'd like to believe.
It's not about which one of them wrote the notes down on paper, but who actually came up with the new music. That's why I said "in this particular case."New music is what linked all the themes together in the score. That includes new melody, chord progression, orchestration, etc. If you can't hear it, then - in my mind - that says Bill did a great job.
Hellgi
Oscar Orchestra Question
in General Discussion
Posted
There's a difference between being naive and judging by the elements you have. I was in the orchestra's pit last night and I can tell you there's no such thing as the conductor or anyone else knowing who's going to win.
If the producers knew ahead of time, after all these years the so-called "secret" would have transpired. If the production knew, believe me that would make everything much, much easier. You wouldn't need 12 different cameras in the audience, or to rehearse with 50 stant-ins. You would only need to rehearse and record the music for the winners. You can't imagine how much money would be saved if the production knew.
Plus, what's the point of knowing in advance? That kills all the fun.
Truth is, the producers do make up a list of who's most likely to win. People talk and it's not too hard to get an idea of who's more likely to win. On the orchestra sheet, that's the way the winner's play-ons are sorted (the most likely to the most unlikely). That doesn't change the fact that many, many times, someone else than the predicted winner will win. It happened on many occasion last night.
Hellgi