Hellgi

If "adapting" is not writing, I wonder why they'd be giving an Oscar for it? Go tell all the arrangers or orchestrators out there that what they're doing is not writing, we'll see what they tell you ... The other question is, who deserves credit for CoS? I personnaly think John Williams does, but thanks to William Ross who was clever enough (in my opinion) to "humiliate himself" in not allowing his own style to come out of the score. Hellgi

In that case, and if you don't consider William Ross arrangement to be original writing, then John Williams wrote 100% of a 20-minute score. But notice that the credits never said that William Ross *wrote* the actual score. It says that he adapted it. The question is how much did he actually adapt, and how much was William's work. The answer is that he adapted 80 minute and that 20 minutes are William's actual amount of untouched music he wrote for the movie. And when I say William Ross wrote 80 minutes of the score, I meant he wrote actual notes on paper. Were some of these notes heavily inspired by John Williams? Of course they were, and that was the whole point! Without William Ross' "adaptation", you would have 6 or 7 new themes playing over and over with no kind of link. So, you can also ask yourself, what is writing? Is writing necessarly writing new material? Can writing also be arranging or adapting or orchestrating? I personnaly believe it is. If it's not, then I think John williams should throw away his oscar for Fiddler on a Roof. Hellgi

None, it was scored by his nephew under a special, non-disclosure agreement. Hellgi

It depends what you call "original material." In all fairness, you could dismiss the whole discussion and say that the music sounds so much like John Williams's Harry Potter music that it is *not* William Ross' music anymore. Again, if you know William Ross' music, you know that he never writes like he did in Harry Potter. It is a fact though that 80 minutes of the score were written by William Ross. Yes, he did base his themes on JW's themes, he did base his orchestration on JW's Harry Potter orchestration. That doesn't prevent the fact that he did sat at the keyboard, watched the movie, and wrote the notes you actually hear in the soundtrack. He did the "dramatic" scoring, which is basically what makes music... film music. Hellgi

I'm just saying that being the first to say that Patrick Doyle is going to score one of Mike Newell's movies doesn't make someone an authority on who did what in regard to Chamber of Secret Not saying that I'm an authority on it either, but - knowing that his information about JW re-writing most of CoS is completely false - it's hard for me to take this seriously. Hellgi

Good for him

Mark, I simply do not know. In term of schedule though, I have no doubt that the work on Harry Potter happened far after Attack of the Clones. When Williams contacted Ross, he basically said that he wasn't planning on working on Catch Me If You Can that early, and that Spielberg forced him to do so by basically moving the recording date to an earlier date. My bet is that this is why John Williams alredy had some music ready for Cos, and then was forced to move to Catch Me If You Can. What I know for a fact is that the main writing process on Ross' side happened at the same time Williams was scoring Catch Me If You Can. Now, I can't say for sure if William Ross had access to the Attack of the Clone score when he worked on CoS. I can't say either if John Williams worked on the specific cues you are mentionning before he had to hand the project to Bill. Finally, let me just say that I don't know everything about the making of the CoS score. And I understand why you guys would be careful in dealing with yet another guy who claim to know the whole truth about CoS. I don't know *everything*, but I do know that William Ross scored most of it, that he did conduct everything, and that both of them can't easily say, by just listening to the soundtrack, who did what. I guess we'll have to go get the cue sheets for that. But my point in telling you this, is that it doesn't really matter. That's definitely a possible reason. Which shows how Lucas is a clever business man and a lazy artist (if he's an artist at all). This is pure and simple BS. Hellgi

Point is, there are many good temp tracks. That doesn't prevent directors to get a composer in the end. I bet the temp track for Chamber of Secret was decent. (Probably completely tracked with material from Sorcecer's Stone.) That didn't prevent the Chris Colombus to request a composer, be it William Ross or not. If it was a schedule issue, I have no idea why George Lucas didn't get someone like Ross. It would have been 1000 times better IMHO than re-using snippets from previous movies, especially like in Episode 2. Hellgi

Ok, good to know.

My bad. Then which recording did they use for episodes 1-2-3? I personnaly hate the very idea of re-using materials from previous movies, sounds like intellectual laziness to me. Which is why I cursed (and probably still does in my sleep) George Lucas for the poor musical choices of Episodes 1-2-3. If it's a time/schedule issue, I much prefer the idea of actually hiring someone to do the job of re-arranging the cues to sync them properly, rather than trusting a sound enginner to slice, cut, and paste everything in a weird order. I mean, if they had James Newton Howard's music for King Kong composed, recorded and mixed in three weeks, I doubt that George Lucas didn't have that kind of possibility. Except of course if they did it the day before sending the master reels, which would show how insecure Lucas is. I can't even imagine Ken Wannberg agreeing to butcher Duel of the Fates. If he did, George Lucas was probably behind his back holding a whip or something. Because for all I know, a music editor fresh out of college would have done a better job. Hellgi

As far as I remember (but I might be wrong), they also did it on ESB and RotJ. Saves time, saves money, sounds great. Everybody's happy! (Except geek fans like you and I, of course).

It does make sense that they would use a pre-record from the previous film (like they did for the Star Wars movies). That doesn't mean there wasn't a "main title" to record, for the exact reason you mentionned (edits). Hellgi

William Ross indeed conducted the whole score. This include the main title and the end credits (contrary to what I have read here and there). Hellgi

I think you're right and I am the same. There's a difference though between healthy criticism and saying that imitating John Williams on his own request is a humiliation Hellgi

Man, John Williams' contacts me because he's in panic working on another movie with a crazy schedule and wants *me* to help *him* out? I don't call that a humiliation, I call that an honor. This is exactly how William Ross saw it. We might have different standards here, but I thought this was a John William's Fans board? Hellgi

I personnaly prefer the first option, especially after hearing what Patrick Doyle did to the Harry Potter musical universe. Not that I think he his a bad composer (I do own more than one of his soundtracks), but I think there's a difference between bringing your own musical touch and doing something with an entirely different sound. Now, again, that is a decision a director could totally make, so it might not be Doyle's fault. Hellgi

That's a point of view one can respect. I personnaly don't agree, but everybody is entitled to his or her own opinion King Mark, in case you don't know it, there's a difference between how you get credited and the actual work you do. There's also a difference between how much new music you write initially, before even seing the final cut, and how much music will end up being used in the final score. Hellgi

I agree with you, Mr. Breathmask. The fact htat it's Williams or Ross who is behind the score is irrelevant. All I'm asking here is exactly that: to stop making it an issue. It's a non-issue. If you love the score, thank both William Ross and John Williams. If you don't, then don't try to point the finger of who is responsible, because nobody knows and it doesn't really matter anyway. All I care personnaly is that the facts about the making of this soundtrack get known. We're not talking about a "Batman Begins" type of collaboration, where each composer get distinct cues and you can clearly recognize both composers' styles. If you know William Ross' music a bit, you know that his music doesn't sound like CoS.

Ok, let me be clearer. You happen to know that before a movie get scored it has a temp track. You also surely know that when a director gets too used to his temp track, he doesn't want to go another way. Now, ask yourself the question: If George Lucas had the power to tell John Williams that he wanted the Imperial March in Episode 2, even though Williams didn't agree with it, then why wouldn't Chris Columbus have the power to tell William Ross where he wants the Harry Potter theme or the Sorcerer's Stone theme - and have it his way in the end? There was a temp track on CoS. Am I making any sense here or what? Hellgi

Oh yes, and Star Wars Episode 2 has the Imperial March even though we don't hear it before Empire Strikes Back. Stupid, stupid John Williams! I hate him! He's such a bad composer! Did it ever occur to you that there's more to the film music craft than just actually writing notes? Hellgi

Ask Ricard, he'll let you know if he has the time to waste. Dude, I don't expect you to believe anything I say. Let's just say I work for someone who happens to have the same representing agency than John Williams'. Enough said. That topic is not about me but about John Williams. Take care, Hellgi

I can't because I'm not trying to make it seems like I know more than I do. I just know he turned down a movie offer because he was already working on something. As I said, I don't know *what* or *when* it will be released. Hell, I'm not even sure it's a movie! I just *know* he is working on something, and there's no way it could be for a movie coming out only in 2008. Hellgi

The number of posts under my name does not mean I'm a newbie. I've been reading JWFan.net for the past 5 years. I even wrote an article for this damn website in 2002. Thanks for your assumption though. Hellgi

I love this post. It really shows how much reality can become distorted when reading or hearing various sources. John Williams wrote about 20 minutes of music for Chamber of Secrets. William Ross adapted, arranged, re-orchestrated, and wrote about 80 minutes of "Harry Potter Music" for the movie. Whatever you heard or read somewhere else is false. End of the story. John and Bill worked very closely on CoS. Bill traveled many times to London (where John Williams was at the time) to discuss the score, the new themes, and the major musical orientations. Bill had full access to John's extensive score library, be it the Harry Potter original manuscripts and scores or any of his other scores for that matter (including Superman). Bill is a *huge* John Williams fan and during the *whole* scoring process, his goal was to mimic John's music so well that you couldn't tell the difference. Bill is also an amazing orchestrator and worked extensively with Conrad Pope to make sure the whole score would have the exact same John William's sound than the previous score. John Williams was delighted with William Ross' score. The *fact* is, John Williams said himself to Wiliam Ross at the end of the premiere that he couldn't tell when it was his writing or Bill's. Those who claim that they can hear a difference between John's and Bill's writing are imagining things. Or they have better ears than John Williams himself. You choose. The fact is, you should listen to Chamber of Secrets without asking yourself questions about who *really* wrote this or that cue. Because it doesn't matter. Chamber of Secrets is pure John Williams music, and it's good. William Ross could have said, like Mr. Doyle, "fuck it" to the whole Harry Potter musical world. Instead, he decided to be as faithful as he could to the universe created by John Williams. We should all give him credit to for that. Hellgi

I know for a fact that John Williams is currently working on a score. For which movie (or project), I do not know. I just know he is (and believe me, my sources are *very* accurate). Gives me hope we'll see a movie with his music sooner than 2008. Hellgi