Jediwashington

Cute. End of line.
 
 
 
Thank you, Jay. 
It would make a good market, tho'.

Well, if it was released, then it wouldn't be unreleased now, would it?

Yeah, that was one of the instances where I kinda felt like he went too mickey mouse. You get that nice overhead shot of her running and the music's building and building, then it instantly goes back to the flittering flutes once you get another closeup of the dreams flying around. May have been more satisfying musically and cinematically if he had run with a broader thematic statement instead, or just something that carried through that sense of buildup a little more.

It is 2 flutes, 1 alto flute, 2 clarinets, harp - they are all in unision, no octaves. 

Agree completely. Her theme is so simple and gentle. It's genius in a "holding back" way. As well, I think he sets us up thinking it will be a dazzling theme at somepoint to match the size of Sophie's hopes, but the film makes a left turn to have a bittersweet end, and Williams shows you that he really wrote a lullaby to comfort Sophie for the rest of her days, not a sweeping motif for her dreams. The treatment of the motif grows as she does as a character. I think it's great of him to hold back and I feel that it is the creative, artistic, and humble approach to this score that makes it great. 

Agree completely. Her theme is so simple and gentle. It's genius in a "holding back" way. As well, I think he sets us up thinking it will be a dazzling theme at somepoint to match the size of Sophie's hopes, but the film makes a left turn to have a bittersweet end, and Williams shows you that he really wrote a lullaby to comfort Sophie for the rest of her days, not a sweeping motif for her dreams. The treatment of the motif grows as she does as a character. I think it's great of him to hold back and I feel that it is the creative, artistic, and humble approach to this score that makes it great. 

I like this interpretation.  It really is a very modest movie and Sophie is ultimately a rather modest character in terms of her hopes and dreams. She doesn't want to fly, she just wants a family. "Finale" reflects this modesty with a warm and subdued piano performance of her theme.

I know what you mean and I agree that The BFG isn't JW's most memorable work ever. But it's still a beautiful, colorful piece of film music written by one of its greatest composers (I think something like "Dream Jars" is enough to be delighted, but that's just me). Is it one for the ages? Probably not, like some of Goldsmith's late years works that were usually lambasted at the time of their release, but that listened today still reveal the touch of a true artist even if they don't belong to his greatest masterworks' list. Maybe Williams should have followed his pal Andre Previn's suggestions and say goodbye to Hollywood long ago to work just on concert music, who knows. But he sounds sincerely happy to be still active and working for these kind of films. We surely live in a strange time, where JW looks like kind of forced to return once again to past successes like Star Wars and Indiana Jones because the industry is totally out of ideas and led by conglomerates which are in constant need of formulas for success.
 
I too can't help but being amazed at the playfulness of his writing here. I dunno, maybe I'm hypocritical, but I always love Williams' exuberance. And I agree with you on "Dream Jars"--it's really an étude for flutes that could (and should!) be taken into the instrument's repertoire already.

After finally receiving the CD today, and still only  halfway through the score, I have to say I'm completely BLOWN AWAY! 
 
This score is an absolute treasure trove of orchestral brilliance; Williams' writing is as effervescent as ever, and there's a concert musical freshness and sense of discovery and invention to this music that is pretty peerless.
 
Just take something as delightful as "Dream Jars": It's absolutely astonishing in its originality of concept, and probably one of Williams' most virtuosic -and virtuosically written- pieces of film music ever.
I mean: 2 and a half minutes just for the flute section soli!
Who else would write something like this for film today? Who else could pull it off?
 
This score ASTONISHES me. And I'm only 9 tracks in.
 
 
 

Both of these "problems" with the score is directly to to the film itself.  That is kind of how the Dream Country sequence is (a bunch of slow moments punctuated by brief flights of fancy), and Sophie never has a big cathartic moment that would call for a grand statement of her theme; The climax of the film is indeed very short and practically over before you realize you are even in the climax of the film.

Agreed. Just go listen to Gregson-Williams' "Legend of Tarzan" score released on the same day as BFG. I gave it a single listen over the weekend and hoo boy is it boring.

IMHO, there are much worse symptoms about what's wrong with current Hollywood film music than Williams delivering a score such as The BFG.

No No, I haven't said a word about BFG except that I like a few cues. There are many parts of this score that are way too meandering for me and it's not totally my cup of tea. Loving woodwinds is one thing, but I never said anything about this score in my last few posts. I love the way he used woodwinds in The Phantom Menace and Jurassic Park, Lost world and TinTin. They were succinct, to the point. The colors were amazing and the writing focused. I think they way he might have done BFG is that it will work on screen, but apart from the few cues where I think his writing shines through, a lot of it won't be on repeat listen to me except to learn more orchestration. Even if I think it is meandering, I can still learn from it. 
 
You can still use woodwinds to their full effect and still have an incredible score that sounds way better than leaving them out and having a score be "duller" in color. That's all I am saying. Don't read into it any more than that. I'm not saying that if you just throw up the whole woodwind section on a page, that's fantastic, lol
 
EDIT: Listen to just the last 30 seconds of "The Witching Hour" where he goes into a quasi chase. That's when I love his writing.

Agree completely. Her theme is so simple and gentle. It's genius in a "holding back" way. As well, I think he sets us up thinking it will be a dazzling theme at somepoint to match the size of Sophie's hopes, but the film makes a left turn to have a bittersweet end, and Williams shows you that he really wrote a lullaby to comfort Sophie for the rest of her days, not a sweeping motif for her dreams. The treatment of the motif grows as she does as a character. I think it's great of him to hold back and I feel that it is the creative, artistic, and humble approach to this score that makes it great. 

While I am as big of a John Williams fan as there is, I have to admit that listening to the BFG was an oddly dichotomous experience. The score is as usual on the technical merits of recording and orchestration very good, excellent even, it has several themes in typical John Williams fashion and some of them are even quite memorable, there are some very engaging setpiece moments and the album on the whole is nice and entertaining but it is very familiar fare from start to finish with very keen stylistic callbacks to his past and indeed greater works. The very pronounced use of woodwinds might be the most unique aspect of this music as they are everywhere and this is not a dismerit by any means but this kind of whimsy we have heard quite a few times before from the composer. I oddly enjoyed even the completely strange mix of mickey mousing and his concert hall output in Dream Jars, which is perhaps the most original thing on this soundtrack.
 
Personally I found Dream Country setpiece/sequence a tad rambling and lacking in throughline, a collection of atmospheric moments, small frustratingly teasing flashes of gorgeous melodies that disappear as soon as they have arrived (never to return) and the ballet/mickey mousing mix of those flurries of flute voices. It doesn't quite sustain itself through the 10 minute stretch like e.g. the equally lengthy Remembering Childhood from Hook, which while 15 minutes long really keeps your aural interest throughout.
 
I still admire the way the Maestro constructs his themes and how he develops his material throughout and the album is for the most part really entertaining as I am not as averse to Williams' brand of orchestral magic and whimsy as some who will surely find this score challenging their blood sugar levels. Curiously this one took some time for me to get into in terms of emotion and narrative, which is uncommon as more often than not Williams' scores pack a very direct punch when fantasy/adventure scores are concerned. Sophie's theme as I said before is really the emotional lynchpin of this score and while it is curiously shy and never allowed to soar in the fashion of so many of Williams' fantasy themes, the idea becomes slowly through the album very heartfelt and touching, especially in its intimate statements and the finale of the score has that definite "and they lived happily ever after"-type of fairytale feel Williams and Spielberg often achieve together. So not a complete triumph but does have its wonderful moments of true JW magic sprinkled throughout.

Zimmer is a pop composer who has a stable of many younger composers doing most of the work for him so when you say ho he treats his thematic materials, I would say, who is treating those thematic materials? I give him props for giving these other composers work and starting them off, some on great careers, but he is no where near what you claim in my opinion.
 
And no I am not starting any arguments here, lol, if you know me like some do you would know I don't actually like to argue, I'm a pretty happy, nice guy who is blessed with a lot of what I have, and I am so thankful for all of it. I was asking what Publicist meant because I truly didn't understand what he said fully.
 
BTW, I was asked to join the zimmer ranks years ago and I declined. I do not believe Zimmer writes very well, and he has yet to come up with a theme that sticks with me. Plus again, as stated, there are many people writing scores for him that he puts his name to and maybe writes one thing for. It's a great well oiled machine there and I give him major props for starting it up and really starting off many people's careers, but he himself, is amazing with the tone of a movie, but his scores are mostly serviceable at best but many can go from one film to the other without much notice of difference and he doesn't really write for full orchestra well, HIMSELF. You might know him or know his composers as I do and you might have a different idea of him and you might prefer him to others. That's the whole point of music though, right? It's subjective. We don't all like the same things and that a good thing in my opinion or it would be a sad world we live in. Either way please do not mistake me for one of those trying to start arguments. But I will state what I know or what I think on subjects just as my point of view, that should be allowed for everyone I think.

A couple of brief things:
 
The "scary motif" on muted trumpets heard first in "To Dream Country" and reprised several times over the course of the score reminds me both of the "Panama Hat" motif from The Last Crusade and Sakharine's theme from Tintin.
 
Anyone else loves the mysterious theme heard first in "The Witching Hour" and reprised in "There Was a Boy"? It's such a great little theme.
 
A question for those who have seen the film: does "Dream Jars" plays in the film as it is on the album?

Okay, glad we got the slower stuff covered. Wondering about the transition material that ends at the beginning of that clip. It goes on for about 10 seconds prior to that? Didn't see credits.

Just got back from seeing the film and I've listened 3 times.
 
The orchestrations are so colorful. He packs more colors per bar than most impressionist composers and I'm just amazed.
 
Sophie's theme, In my opinion, is a lullaby, which would follow his typical logic. It is so evident because of its simplicity, repetitive nature and relatively small tessitura. It tries to be pentatonic as most lullaby's, but he gets bored of that harmonically. He also develops it in the film a lot more than the CD if you listen to the order. You don't really get a full theme reveal in major until the end of the first act.
 
This will go down as one of his best orchestrated films yet. The flute writing is incredible (and even better played... Brava!!!) the oboe work is great too. Woodwind writing is just magnificent. I'm so impressed that he was able to get those little unison flute lines to line up for the dreams and move straight on to the next material without dropping the idea. Just wow... Also, they should have kept Big Ben in the CD! 
 
As as for source music, I love the choice. Hail Britrania has hints of his melodic/rhythmic style, so it's not out of place. Bagpipes are snoozers. The real question is this: is that baroque/Renaissance music his? I think it is and wish it were on the CD...
 
The film itself just lagged in places. It threw us into the world really quickly, only to take over an hour fascinating us by said world, and then hurrying as quickly as possible to wrap up the story. It is a great story and a great book, but the script and editorial choices weren't distributed correctly to keep interest.
 
within those long scenes, they jump quickly from topic to topic, and transitions from scene to scene are quick, so John really didn't have time to play much, thus the sad reality that we don't get a big theme moment like ET or Harry Potter. It was quite dialogue heavy as well and didn't rely on as much visual story telling that Williams can throw in a motif.
 
Overall, love the music, not a big fan of the film. I think Williams had read the book, loves it, but knew it had a pacing issue and I can hear him struggling to save it, but not having the silence or opportunity to do it. He was boxed in and did what he could and certainly had a fun time with it regardless. A for effort!
 
Hope it's not the last children's score we get... He is too good at this style!
 
Definitely. Clarinets in A I think for a darker sound. It sounds like Alto flute as well, but maybe unison? Definitely more than one flute, but I can't tell if it's just 2 players with one that has a darker breathy sound or it is a different instrument completely. 
 
There is also a few articulations that make me think there could be a little glock with rubber mallets or maybe even vibes. Something metallic anyway extremely soft.

Just got back from seeing the film and I've listened 3 times.
 
The orchestrations are so colorful. He packs more colors per bar than most impressionist composers and I'm just amazed.
 
Sophie's theme, In my opinion, is a lullaby, which would follow his typical logic. It is so evident because of its simplicity, repetitive nature and relatively small tessitura. It tries to be pentatonic as most lullaby's, but he gets bored of that harmonically. He also develops it in the film a lot more than the CD if you listen to the order. You don't really get a full theme reveal in major until the end of the first act.
 
This will go down as one of his best orchestrated films yet. The flute writing is incredible (and even better played... Brava!!!) the oboe work is great too. Woodwind writing is just magnificent. I'm so impressed that he was able to get those little unison flute lines to line up for the dreams and move straight on to the next material without dropping the idea. Just wow... Also, they should have kept Big Ben in the CD! 
 
As as for source music, I love the choice. Hail Britrania has hints of his melodic/rhythmic style, so it's not out of place. Bagpipes are snoozers. The real question is this: is that baroque/Renaissance music his? I think it is and wish it were on the CD...
 
The film itself just lagged in places. It threw us into the world really quickly, only to take over an hour fascinating us by said world, and then hurrying as quickly as possible to wrap up the story. It is a great story and a great book, but the script and editorial choices weren't distributed correctly to keep interest.
 
within those long scenes, they jump quickly from topic to topic, and transitions from scene to scene are quick, so John really didn't have time to play much, thus the sad reality that we don't get a big theme moment like ET or Harry Potter. It was quite dialogue heavy as well and didn't rely on as much visual story telling that Williams can throw in a motif.
 
Overall, love the music, not a big fan of the film. I think Williams had read the book, loves it, but knew it had a pacing issue and I can hear him struggling to save it, but not having the silence or opportunity to do it. He was boxed in and did what he could and certainly had a fun time with it regardless. A for effort!
 
Hope it's not the last children's score we get... He is too good at this style!
 
Definitely. Clarinets in A I think for a darker sound. It sounds like Alto flute as well, but maybe unison? Definitely more than one flute, but I can't tell if it's just 2 players with one that has a darker breathy sound or it is a different instrument completely. 
 
There is also a few articulations that make me think there could be a little glock with rubber mallets or maybe even vibes. Something metallic anyway extremely soft.

Just got back from seeing the film and I've listened 3 times.
 
The orchestrations are so colorful. He packs more colors per bar than most impressionist composers and I'm just amazed.
 
Sophie's theme, In my opinion, is a lullaby, which would follow his typical logic. It is so evident because of its simplicity, repetitive nature and relatively small tessitura. It tries to be pentatonic as most lullaby's, but he gets bored of that harmonically. He also develops it in the film a lot more than the CD if you listen to the order. You don't really get a full theme reveal in major until the end of the first act.
 
This will go down as one of his best orchestrated films yet. The flute writing is incredible (and even better played... Brava!!!) the oboe work is great too. Woodwind writing is just magnificent. I'm so impressed that he was able to get those little unison flute lines to line up for the dreams and move straight on to the next material without dropping the idea. Just wow... Also, they should have kept Big Ben in the CD! 
 
As as for source music, I love the choice. Hail Britrania has hints of his melodic/rhythmic style, so it's not out of place. Bagpipes are snoozers. The real question is this: is that baroque/Renaissance music his? I think it is and wish it were on the CD...
 
The film itself just lagged in places. It threw us into the world really quickly, only to take over an hour fascinating us by said world, and then hurrying as quickly as possible to wrap up the story. It is a great story and a great book, but the script and editorial choices weren't distributed correctly to keep interest.
 
within those long scenes, they jump quickly from topic to topic, and transitions from scene to scene are quick, so John really didn't have time to play much, thus the sad reality that we don't get a big theme moment like ET or Harry Potter. It was quite dialogue heavy as well and didn't rely on as much visual story telling that Williams can throw in a motif.
 
Overall, love the music, not a big fan of the film. I think Williams had read the book, loves it, but knew it had a pacing issue and I can hear him struggling to save it, but not having the silence or opportunity to do it. He was boxed in and did what he could and certainly had a fun time with it regardless. A for effort!
 
Hope it's not the last children's score we get... He is too good at this style!
 
Definitely. Clarinets in A I think for a darker sound. It sounds like Alto flute as well, but maybe unison? Definitely more than one flute, but I can't tell if it's just 2 players with one that has a darker breathy sound or it is a different instrument completely. 
 
There is also a few articulations that make me think there could be a little glock with rubber mallets or maybe even vibes. Something metallic anyway extremely soft.

I'll be brief: I think this soundtrack is delightful.

No, I don't think so. Just the baroque "source" music from the brunch with the Queen. I'm almost certain it's his. 
 
as for the development, no, there isn't much unreleased (it's actually pretty silent for a good bit of the beginning), but without the overture track, the theme isn't presented immediately, but it does get revealed in full earlier than usual.
 
He also plays against the tolling bells of Big Ben, which aren't in the CD, but are really musical and what he plays off of. More of an editorial omission than unreleased stuff.

Just got back from seeing the film and I've listened 3 times.
 
The orchestrations are so colorful. He packs more colors per bar than most impressionist composers and I'm just amazed.
 
Sophie's theme, In my opinion, is a lullaby, which would follow his typical logic. It is so evident because of its simplicity, repetitive nature and relatively small tessitura. It tries to be pentatonic as most lullaby's, but he gets bored of that harmonically. He also develops it in the film a lot more than the CD if you listen to the order. You don't really get a full theme reveal in major until the end of the first act.
 
This will go down as one of his best orchestrated films yet. The flute writing is incredible (and even better played... Brava!!!) the oboe work is great too. Woodwind writing is just magnificent. I'm so impressed that he was able to get those little unison flute lines to line up for the dreams and move straight on to the next material without dropping the idea. Just wow... Also, they should have kept Big Ben in the CD! 
 
As as for source music, I love the choice. Hail Britrania has hints of his melodic/rhythmic style, so it's not out of place. Bagpipes are snoozers. The real question is this: is that baroque/Renaissance music his? I think it is and wish it were on the CD...
 
The film itself just lagged in places. It threw us into the world really quickly, only to take over an hour fascinating us by said world, and then hurrying as quickly as possible to wrap up the story. It is a great story and a great book, but the script and editorial choices weren't distributed correctly to keep interest.
 
within those long scenes, they jump quickly from topic to topic, and transitions from scene to scene are quick, so John really didn't have time to play much, thus the sad reality that we don't get a big theme moment like ET or Harry Potter. It was quite dialogue heavy as well and didn't rely on as much visual story telling that Williams can throw in a motif.
 
Overall, love the music, not a big fan of the film. I think Williams had read the book, loves it, but knew it had a pacing issue and I can hear him struggling to save it, but not having the silence or opportunity to do it. He was boxed in and did what he could and certainly had a fun time with it regardless. A for effort!
 
Hope it's not the last children's score we get... He is too good at this style!
 
Definitely. Clarinets in A I think for a darker sound. It sounds like Alto flute as well, but maybe unison? Definitely more than one flute, but I can't tell if it's just 2 players with one that has a darker breathy sound or it is a different instrument completely. 
 
There is also a few articulations that make me think there could be a little glock with rubber mallets or maybe even vibes. Something metallic anyway extremely soft.