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Posts posted by Bayesian
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You know what I can’t stand? The shawm. What a ridiculous instrument! I mean, honestly, you’d have to be an incredibly bad composer without a shred of talent or imagination to write anything for that thing.
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10 hours ago, TolkienSS said:Now bring the hate.
I don’t think any of us is looking to bring the hate, but if you’re open to a reasonable counterargument, I’ll give it a shot.
Your depiction of us as too-easily-impressed JW fanboys misses the mark. It doesn’t help that you misrepresent the amount of self-plagiarism in JW’s music, specifically DoD.
We don’t treat every score JW writes with unquestioned, overjoyed praise. Off the top of my head, there was plenty of commentary in these boards about how slight BFG, The Post, and The Fabelmans all were. Folks here wasted no time identifying the handful of moments that JW lifted from his previous work for DoD, which led to (in my opinion) an overwrought reaction about JW’s supposedly deteriorating creative faculties. I seem to recall TROS being treated as the least of the sequel trilogy scores—although that’s actually due to JJ Abrams and the Mouse House screwing the movie up every which way possible.
Rather, what we appreciate and show genuine gratitude for is a man who continues to apply himself with the same level of commitment to the craft that he gave when he was half his age—composing music for characters and moments using ridiculous, outdated things like key changes, octatonic scales and woodwinds, rather than washes of interchangeable ‘moods’ written with drum loops; writing and shorthand-orchestrating every note with a pencil on paper; conducting every bar in the studio; and doing it week after week at an age when most of his birth cohort is already six feet under. It’s exactly this that prevents JW from ever being overrated. Being the consummate pro that he is, JW continues to be the same one-stop shop he’s always been, delivering each film exactly the music it needs (to the extent this era of “no such thing as picture lock” allows)—and if that music is ‘deficient’ in some way to some folks, it’s usually because JW either left out some choice cues in his OST program or because we all spent too long imagining what the music might be like to a movie we hadn’t seen in the months/years leading to that movie’s release and was ultimately disappointed in the material JW had to work with.
JW isn’t overrated here—he’s rated exactly at the level he deserves to be.- CGCJ, Not Mr. Big, Andy and 4 others
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25 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:
Still have never seen this movie but the theme gets stuck in my head all the time
My wife loves this movie! She quotes lines from it with her sister all the time. So random to see it pop up here—although it is a lovely score and Delerue’s name should be spoken of ‘round these parts far more often than it is.
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Just in time for fall, Schumann’s “Spring” symphony in B-flat.
I have a soft spot for this one. The last movement is one of the happiest sounding things out of the Romantic era I know of. You need a good conductor this one, though. Not some dour Furtwangler or Karajan or arch Gardiner. No, you wanna go with Mehta and the Wiener men circa 1976. It’s glorious.
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I appreciate the Cassandra-approaching-chicken-little-level of dismay about generative AI in the creative sphere. When ChatGPT broke into the popular consciousness back in February, I was aghast at the implications and not a single development since then has changed my view on the perils of this technology.
Ive said it before and I’ll say it again—there are some things humans can do that should simply not be done. We, for example, mutually agreed as a planetary society not to spend our time and energy developing chemical or biological warfare agents. Imagine if we hadn’t, though. The technology has been around for a century to do exactly such things and if we had chosen to race towards designing the “best” in biochemical agents, well, we wouldn’t have an Earth in 2023 with humans on it anymore.
By the same token, and like others have said above, if we keep racing to make the best generative AI, we’re going to put millions of people out of work. And that is a huge risk in so many ways—economically, of course, but also spiritually and socially. How many of us derive our identities from our professions or the jobs we do? What happens to ambition or the quest to mastery in a subject that gen AI has dominated at a fraction of the cost and time? You think society is on a knife edge now? Wait until AI puts millions of people into forced furlough with nothing to do but stew in their resentment at the tech elites responsible for the situation. There’s no universal basic income high enough to compensate for that.
Generative AI is an experiment that needs to die. It’s that simple.
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6 hours ago, bollemanneke said:Yes, and 7/10 Beethoven is 1/10 Bach.
Don't know where to start with this one, other than, um, not.
- DeltaPupJux, Yavar Moradi and JTN
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24 minutes ago, Thor said:
Would be interesting to hear the actual track at some point. Or an A.I.'s attempt at any composer's style, to be honest. This whole thing is both scary and endlessly fascinating at the same time.
The scary part of the linked article was the mention of companies that make AI-generated music. These already exist?? Who are they selling to? I can’t believe there’s already a market for them.
- JTN and MaxMovieMan
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10 hours ago, Mr. Who said:Some terrible movies feature some of my favorite scores!
Said every Goldsmith fan ever, amirite??
Trenchant japes aside, this announcement is really exciting. I have all of the JNH/Shyamalan scores on CD, having collected them several years ago with the sense that there was something special about their collaboration (and that there wouldn't be any more of it forthcoming).
There's something nostalgic too about their collaboration that, for me, represents one of the best things from the aughts decade. I don't really know how to put words to it, but I know I'm very much looking forward to this CD.
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I sat in on your seminar today, @Ludwig, and it was really insightful. Thank you for letting us in on your research and interpretations of the methods of JW’s compositional genius!
It was enlightening, too, to think about the two examples you chose, from 1980 and 1983. You’re discussing advanced harmonic methods he was employing four decades ago—that folks have only relatively recently started grappling with musicologically. Imagine what JW’s worked into his repertoire since then!
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5 hours ago, GerateWohl said:
But instead of just recording his concerts they should rather produce recordings of his concertos and probably his symphony.
That would be wonderful if they ever get around to it; it'd further entrench JW's deserved position in the classical firmament.
Goddamn branding. Why should a yellow label make a difference in people's minds about classical music legitimacy? It shouldn't, but it does.
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Maybe this doesn't exactly fit the criteria for this thread, but it is a JW encounter (of sorts) in what I consider to be an unexpected place.
On Deutsche Grammophon's website, their news page has an announcement about their 125th anniversary -- and it's JW who gets to grace the article with its main and only photo right beneath the headline. And it's JW who gets listed first in the murderer's row of talent that DG is touting for its anniversary activities. Moreover, reading the press release, it sure sounds like JW's Tokyo concert with the SKO was DG's official kickoff event for its 125th anniversary.
It's hard not to feel all warm inside when the world's premier classical label gives JW pride of place for its 125th anniversary announcement, right??
- Once, GerateWohl, Taikomochi and 5 others
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The MCU has long overstayed its welcome, IMO. I don’t know what Disney will do to replace it, but if their new Marvels movie flops (and I read somewhere that it’s expected to), that’ll be like the Mouse House’s 14th consecutive money-losing film. Coupled with DCU’s half-dozen movie money-losers, maybe we’ve finally gotten to the point where the studios will be willing to try something different, at long last. They’re definitely gonna have to do something different before they go insolvent.
On a related note, it’s hard to shake the feeling that a seismic shift in the world of movie production is underway. The studios no longer make the money they used to from theatrical exhibition and have to generate copious amounts of “content” for streaming platforms with their smaller bankrolls. I worry for the SAG and WGA, because the studios really seem determined not to allow writing and acting to remain major cost centers. These strikes really feel like the last possible chance to allow writing and acting to continue to be viable careers.
- Edmilson and Yavar Moradi
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3 hours ago, Raiders of the SoundtrArk said:
I don't know if they met every time Spielberg was involved with certain Horner's score but he was involved with a tons of them:
- 1985: Amazing Stories as an executive producer and developper
- 1986: An American Tail as an executive producer
- 1987: Batteries Not Included as an executive producer
- 1988: The Land Before Time as an executive producer
- 1989: Tummy Trouble as an executive producer (short film from Roger Rabbit)
- 1991: An American Tail: Fievel Goes West as a producer
- 1989: Dad as an executive producer
- 1993: We're Back a Dinosaur Story as an executive producer
- 1995: Casper as an executive producer
- 1995: Balto as an executive producer
- 1998: The Mask of Zorro as an executive producer
- 1998: Deep Impact as an executive producer
- 2005: The Legend of Zorro as an executive producer
Like you imply, I'm unsure how often Spielberg and Horner actively collaborated. I wouldn't be surprised if American Tail was the last time. Executive producer just means he signed his name on the check underwriting the production costs.
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1 hour ago, Bellosh said:
i realized after I typed it, i committed JWfan Forum sin. jay already scorned me with a neutral emoji. it's the equivalent to your parents not being mad at you --- just disappointed. I almost would rather have the passive aggressive confused emoji at that point.
Let me try to explain myself....
I'm not going to speak for Jay, but regarding my reply to you, that was purely in jest, meant only to resemble what a rabid, unrepentant JW true believer would write. (Which I'm sure, in this case, is likely pretty close to what a sober and perfectly objective commentator would write about JW's music.)
You don't need to explain yourself to anyone and can feel whatever you like about DoD's music. : )
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6 hours ago, Bellosh said:
to each their own!
you know what it is for me? as a fan of the film....i wish JW didn't do that!
I feel like, personally, it lowers the quality of the film to re-hash so many bits. which feels harsh to type....but the irony is the rest of JW's music in the film is so good that it raises the level of the film.
Maybe the On the Tank reference is fine, cause one could argue that is something like Indy's version of tie fighter music (bad example --- but you get it)
I think the film could have 'felt' stronger to me without dipping into so many older cues. I can't and won't blame JW, due to his age obviously. It's just a small nitpick I have with the film.
Hmm, see, it sounds like you ARE blaming JW. Moreover, you said JW's contribution to a movie lowered the quality of said movie.
There... there just are no words for such words. Under the immutable and ineradicable laws of the universe, JW's music only INCREASES the quality of everything it graces, always and forever. That means, by definition, his reuse of material is a stroke of genius the rest of us might come around to recognizing as such years from now, if we're lucky.
Ok, we're good. I'm glad I was able to sort that out for us.
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5 hours ago, enderdrag64 said:
Yeah I agree with this. I can understand the appeal of a curated album in certain situations, but I very often find that I dislike OST presentations, especially of Williams' scores. I'd much rather listen to my own selection of highlights.
Honestly I think the thing that bothers me the most about Williams' albums isn't even the missing highlights or the out of order music, it's the really obvious microedits. I don't understand how someone can seriously argue that an edit like this improves the listening experience:
To me, edits like this are extremely un-musical, and are just as bad or in some cases worse than film edits you might find on an isolated score.
Going by the number of likes, it seems a lot of folks are inclined to agree that this is a bad edit... but I don't really see (hear) that. The tonal shift is strong, but not worse to my ear than what we often hear in the prequels. And the edit at 1:48 - 1:49 is seamless to my ear, as if it was actually recorded that way. But that's just me.
I've actually always wondered what makes a transition or edit like the one above a "microedit." What's micro about it??
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1 hour ago, crocodile said:
And this is exactly why I don't comment on stuff I am not interested in anymore. Someone does want them and someone else worked hard on these releases. If I get something I want, good for me. If I don't, I save money. I don't lose in any scenario, only get pleasantly surprised sometimes. These people know exactly what we want and will get it out in due course when (and if) possible.
Karol
I clicked "like" on your post. I guess that means I need to lay off Zimmer and Balfe, even though they stick in my craw like nothing else on earth. Sigh...
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I have a question I figured could be posted here to avoid the need for a new thread: What all actually goes into arranging a film score for an LTP presentation?
I expect there's a lot of work involved, but I'm curious about the details. Since film scores are of course never recorded in a straight 2-hr shot, one must presumably begin by getting all the cues in the right order (and maybe selecting which version of a cue is the best fit). Then someone has to bridge all the cues together into a single linear sequence -- which presumably means editing the closing bars of one cue and the opening bars of the next cue to flow seamlessly. (Who does that work? The original composer?). I also imagine that someone is also re-orchestrating every cue to accommodate the composition of a typical symphony orchestra -- if a score was originally written and recorded using unusual instruments, or several more units of a common instrument than found in a typical orchestra, are the parts rewritten accordingly?
Am I right about these steps? Are there other things that happen to make a score LTP-ready?
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1 hour ago, Corellian2019 said:
That may come sooner rather than later since Oliver Stone announced that it will get a 4K release this year. Fingers crossed
What the hell!! I just bought a used copy of the '09 blu-ray last week from someone on eBay for $40, thinking we were never going to get a better version.
I waited for years before pulling the trigger on owning a copy of this paranoid masterpiece in its best presentation and all I had to do was wait one more fucking week to learn that it was finally coming to 4K????
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On 29/8/2023 at 11:56 AM, Indianagirl said:
Just as long as I can one day own it on Blu Ray
4K blu-ray. In special edition packaging. Fingers crossed!
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5 hours ago, mrbellamy said:
Desplat was surprisingly not bad in Monuments Men considering it was a mildly dramatic role, a little bonding time with Damon's character lol. I don't think anybody watching it would have thought twice that he wasn't just some character actor. Kinda cool that Clooney saw that in him.
Holy moly, I never knew Desplat had a cameo in that movie (or any movie)! I've never seen Monuments Men, but it's on my watchlist now.
What musical element you don't like in film scores?
in General Discussion
Posted
Well, way to go, you guys. I write a brilliantly funny post that all you JW nerds should have pissed yourselves laughing over and I get one single solitary lol??? I mean, this thread was begging for a shawm cue reference and I freakin’ pulled it off exquisitely.
Man, folks aren’t kidding when they say comedy is hard.