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Bayesian

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  1. Thanks
    Bayesian reacted to lairdo in John Williams cameo in The Rise of Skywalker   
    I was able to grab some pix during the movie yesterday. This sort of represents the best of what I could get with my phone on low brightness and basically in my lap. JW actually only has his eye(s) open for a very short time before looking down.
     
    About what is behind JW is definitely something that looks like a hook. The circular thing above that seems almost like the medallion from Raiders but when the shot widens, it looks less so. Clearly a droid's head to the right. Further to the right (but not in this image) is something that looks like a CB radio and on top of that some sort of lantern.
     
    Also, I doubt this was green screen. I think they just built a small part of a set behind him. It would have been less work than doing a composite shot, but I could be wrong.
     

  2. Like
    Bayesian got a reaction from crumbs in The Rise of Skywalker OST Album Discussion - NO FILM SPOILERS   
    What's worse, for me, is reading the inevitable Zimmer comments in the vein of "Zimmer and Williams are living legends," "When JW's gone, there'll be Zimmer," etc. Fucking hell, it's like spam. It's so grubby and feculent to read comments invoking the Naked Emperor whenever something JW is posted on YouTube. I haven't checked out Disney's videos for this score, but I fully expect that it'll be the same situation there.
  3. Like
    Bayesian reacted to Dixon Hill in What’s next for JW?   
    More concert music, I don't care what.
  4. Haha
    Bayesian reacted to Not Mr. Big in The Rise of Skywalker - COMPLETE SCORE Discussion - SPOILERS ALLOWED!   
    Only on JWFan do people complain about a Star Wars score having too many new themes.
  5. Like
    Bayesian reacted to Falstaft (hiatus til TROS) in How many times have you listened to the track The Rise of Skywalker?   
    Reposting from Twitter a little analysis I cooked up of this extraordinary piece of music:
     

     
    "Rise of Skywalker" concert arrangement based on two distinct but emotionally simpatico themes, a hymn (A) that's stated in full in the first minute (first woodwind choir, then strings), and a more lyrical, striving melody (B) that is stated over the next minute in strings and horns. The middle the piece is essentially a development section that sequences and composes out the B theme. Midway through, it becomes based on the music from the aftermath of the final battle in the movie.There's a big arrival back on the A-theme at 2:50, now much more fully orchestrated (in the film there's also chorus). This has some developmental qualities too (internal modulation to Db maj before returning to Bb), but overall serves a climactic & recapitulatory formal function. There are a few cadential delaying tactics before the very end, including a great brass chorale that evokes the conclusion of Rey's Theme nicely and a little rebel-fanfare-esque chromatic planing. The final bars make a brief, transformed statement of the B theme. 

    The unusual structure of this piece -- bithematic ternary with some light rotational and developing-variational features -- is characteristic of I guess you could call "late" period Williams SW concert arrangements. "Rebellion is Reborn" and "Galaxy's Edge" work similarly. Watching the way his approach concert arrangements have evolved over time is fascinating. The developmental, dare I say sonata-principle-esque, impulse seems to be getting stronger and stronger the older Williams gets. 

    In terms of melody & harmony, there's a nice mix of old and new here too. The A theme has a Lincoln-y quality, and the B-theme a War Horsey vibe (those tearjerking IV<=>iii progressions!), but I also get some ET, Amazing Stories, Midway, Spacecamp, even Close Encounters...I also hear Williams channeling Brahms quite strongly in the opening section, and echoes of Franck, Saint-Saens, and Prokofiev in the B-theme. As far as connections with Star Wars music, there seem to be some passing echoes of Rey (esp. her chimes), Rebel Fanfare, Jedi Steps, and March of the Resistance in there, plus Yoda/Young Anakin/Rose by dint of the lydian disposition of both A and B themes.

    Overall -- and my opinion will surely evolve over time -- I think it's an intensely beautiful, well-balanced, & sophisticated piece of music with a direct, heartfelt sentimentality that Williams does so well. Up there w/ Rey's theme as the best concert arr. of the ST.
  6. Haha
    Bayesian got a reaction from Þekþiþm in The Rise of Skywalker SPOILERS ALLOWED discussion thread   
    Anyone else find Dark Rey alluring and sexy AF? I don’t mean that cavalierly, either. I think it was definitely intentional. Her eyes and smile look like something out of a designer fragrance ad or magazine photo shoot or something. When side-by-side with the sweaty and stressed-out “good” Rey, it’s like DR is telling GR to just give in, ‘cause look how awesome I am—and you kinda want to agree. (But then DR’s face goes Palpatine-y and the moment is gone.)
  7. Thanks
    Bayesian reacted to Kylo Ren in What’s next for JW?   
    I hope he writes another symphony or revises and records his first one.
  8. Thanks
    Bayesian reacted to John in Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker (JJ Abrams 2019) - NO SPOILERS ALLOWED   
    Yep, nothing embodies the spirit of Superman better than a montage of a sullen alien “rescuing” people while brooding music plays and he looks miserable while doing so. 
     
    Thanks Snyder!
  9. Haha
    Bayesian reacted to Docteur Qui in The Rise of Skywalker SPOILERS ALLOWED discussion thread   
    straight people are weird
  10. Haha
  11. Like
    Bayesian reacted to Miz in The Rise of Skywalker SPOILERS ALLOWED discussion thread   
    My clue about this disappointing film came when I listened to the score as a preview. I love listening to the pure musical storytelling before seeing the film, when it becomes forever associated with the images and scenes. Now I'm a devotee to John Williams, but how strange that I found this score dark, melancholy, and even meandering and lost. I thought it was the characters that might get lost, but alas it was the film itself. It's also worth noting this score features the fewest hearings of original trilogy themes, which have served as storytelling anchors since Episode 1. This has few, the film has no centre, and an avant-garde score didn't help.

    I agree with all your points. Poor characterisation is this films biggest flaw. Ben's turning to the light - the TITLE OF THE FILM - was handled so badly: a talk with ghost dad, Rey saying she would've taken Ben's hand, and Leia reaching out to him. (The last had to happen so that Leia could go the way of Carrie Fisher, her big CGI head and odd one-liners were getting awkward). And to cememnt his turning, the Knights of Ren were one of the many lost ideas in this trilogy so a face off with them was already going to be flat, but might have had more effort put into it (after the choreography of TLJ's red-suits fight, this felt like they didn't want to bother). I would've loved Rey's tantalising delve into the dark side to actually have been a struggle and gone somewhere, but nah. Finn and Poe's charisma was great, but didn't make up for their lack of development - bickering yes, but exploring how strife and the presence of evil turns the best against one another, and how they find solidarity, is what their story could have, should have, been about. Finn didn't need a new friend, he needed to focus on working on his existing friendships lol. Lando did his best, introduced unceremoniously within a moving box. And yes, Rose was criminally ignored.

    So if you're not going to work on your characters, get a good story. This plot was pish. I was hoping for the plucky rebels rallying support across the galaxy, new helpful, interesting friends, and looking for a way to defeat the baddies in one last desperate assault. The Emperor could get a twisted reveal as master orchestrator and Rey and Ben destroy him together, never quite eliminating evil as the light and dark balance is alluded to.

    But no, the Emperor is flagged up in the first line - "This film will be about Emperor Palpatine" - and gets shlocky flash-shriek horror treatment from the off. Our heroes know about him already and have to find a Horcrux or whatever to be able to access the necessary final battle. We fly from place to place, or back and forth, while seeing lots of people we don't know much about. Jeopardy is missing for a number of reasons, and the ultimate threat of the Final Order fleet doesn't really help. The action is flashy, but doesn't matter much, and feels 'lighter' than ever. That 'ground battle' was pointless, was entirely exposed to cannon fire from above, and knocking out a comms dish does not neutralise a fleet. An entire fleet of rebels is great, but how many destroyers do they manage to destroy? I didn't really get any sense of the ebb and flow of battle. Does the melting of Palpatine, the destruction of the flagship (sadly not an Executor-type like previous ones), a few more falling down, and "people rising up across the galaxy", count for a total victory? Doesn't really feel like it, except that I'm being told so. I'd rather roll with Return of the Jedi's simple battle station elimination and forest victory, then party with some teddy bears.

    And the mechanics finally got to me; I could tolerate TLJ's fleet-running-out-of-fuel-and-slowing-down-in-space, the arcing laser blasts and the comms-through-hyperspace. These are totally geek criticisms, but this film really cemented this trilogy's move from away from plausible science-fiction mechanics in the originals, tilted towards science-fantasy by the Force, into the realm of out-and-out fantasy. Now the Force is bending it's own rules arbitrarily to serve story (as per Rey's/Ben's healing and its cost). Now the Falcon's is light-speed jumping into absurd scenarios as if moving at light-speed is like using a portal - the audacious trick is tried twice in TFA where they just about got away with it. But compare it to the original trilogy where the first light-speed jump takes an entire scene to prepare, and the use of one precious light-speed jump to escape capture in The Empire Strikes Back creates almost the entire jeopardy of that film. And now the Empire can destroy a planet with a star destroyer's penis-cannon: isn't it amazing how they've miniaturised their technology! Back in the seventies you needed a battle station the size of a small moon to destroy a planet. Again, too much threat, not enough jeopardy.

    It's obvious that this film was batted about a bit: the credits show Trevorrow worked on the story before it was handed on. They couldn't have helped Carrie Fisher's absence, and their handling of that would've been forgivable within a better-conceived, better-executed film. But Trevorrow got the gig by directing Jurassic World, and it's clear that him and Abrahms are adept at flashy, hollow fan-service that might carry some gravitas if the studios put enough time and talent into script-writing. Too busy churning them out to a schedule.

    It's also not very clear in what way this is an ending, with Disney so eager to continue milking this juiciest of cows. For a supposed 9-film arc, it certainly didn't wrap up with the anything like the sobriety or reverence of Avengers: Endgame, or Return of the King. It feels to me like The Force Awakens is the best of this trilogy, while not even being a great film. It could have been so different if Disney, acquiring the OP 5 years ago, before embarking on the first of the new films, had spent some years planning with committed creative minds a whole and well-ordered trilogy, drawing some of the best ideas that many authors have explored in sequel novels since the late 80s. Instead this trilogy tries to be everything, but ends up flitting here and there, overbaked by too many cooks - multiple contradicting intentions and half-executed ideas, and films that feel like they are 'about Star Wars'. The Original Trilogy and Prequel Trilogy benefitted from George Lucas' creative vision at the centre - the first one being seminal, a new context for old mythology with stunning aesthetic design and cutting-edge technological execution. The Prequels famously suffered for Lucas' weak script-writing and flat direction, and the opposite of today's problem: his dominance of the creative process without the diversity of producers to round things out. Both trilogies are also quietly awful in their race and gender representation, though worst in their beginnings. And now we have films for the modern attention-span, featuring the modern ethics, full of the modern self-referential, recycled repetoire. My ill wife was watching The Hobbit, for which all of this applies too methinks, and I remarked how we should go back and watch good old-fashioned racist and sexist Lord of the Rings, because we knew where we stood with those tired old values, and at least each thing mattered in it. If only our new films in beloved franchises could be brought towards better values without having to be hacked to little pieces for the ADHD generation or made-to-recipe for the widest possible box-office grab.

    I think I'll got watch The Mandalorian. It doesn't pretend to be anything other than what it is.
  12. Haha
    Bayesian reacted to Arpy in The Rise of Skywalker SPOILERS ALLOWED discussion thread   
    Anyone else think the Knights of Ren's arrival on Pasana was like some music video shot? Thought they were going to start playing their weapons like guitars.
  13. Like
    Bayesian got a reaction from armorb in The Rise of Skywalker - COMPLETE SCORE Discussion - SPOILERS ALLOWED!   
    The Training Course missing from the OST is an absolute tragedy. The whole cue is wonderful. 
  14. Like
    Bayesian reacted to Jay in The Rise of Skywalker OST Album Discussion - NO FILM SPOILERS   
    When JW sat down to write this film score, he took Rey's theme and developed in in many new ways throughout, as she's the main character of this film and the one with the biggest journey.
     
    He also took Kylo Ren's theme to many new places, as he also goes through a major arc and as he turns from the dark to the light, he theme changes with it
     
    He also builds to a final moment of catharsis when things seem bleakest for our heroes until the tide turns and we get the biggest, grandest version of the main theme of this saga yet.
     
    None of this is represented on the album.  There's barely any Rey's theme.  The narrative conclusion of Kylo's theme is completely absent.  And the final triumphant moment is just not there.
  15. Like
    Bayesian got a reaction from igger6 in The Rise of Skywalker - COMPLETE SCORE Discussion - SPOILERS ALLOWED!   
    The Training Course missing from the OST is an absolute tragedy. The whole cue is wonderful. 
  16. Like
    Bayesian got a reaction from TSMefford in The Rise of Skywalker - COMPLETE SCORE Discussion - SPOILERS ALLOWED!   
    Frenzied, no kidding. It turns out I was misremembering the scene in that last post of mine—Rey wasn’t quite lifeless yet. But everything else I said stands. It was a moment that truly stood out in a film that was throwing everything it could get its hands on at you.
     
    I know this because I ended up seeing it again tonight. This time I succeeded in catching the cameo to end all cameos as far as I’ll ever be concerned, and that alone was worth it. My opinion of the film definitely improved after this second viewing. Yes, it has major story flaws, but if you’re willing to not let that totally blind you, you’ll realize that J.J. is actually a really gifted filmmaker. He knows where to put the camera and move it. You can follow his action (unlike, ahem, one M. Bay). The Kylo/Rey duel on the Death Star wreck was truly well done, start to finish—you really felt they were at it for real, that someone was going to lose a limb or worse. Not that J.J. is entirely faultless for the story, but imagine if any other filmmaker walked into a room and was told out of the blue that he had to make a single movie that hit all the goals for a series capper AND solved all the (supposed) problems of the preceding entry AND had to preserve the financial viability of a major entertainment IP and had to do it at breakneck pace... and he came back to you with this movie, you’d have to give him credit for his achievement.
  17. Like
    Bayesian got a reaction from Cerebral Cortex in The Rise of Skywalker - COMPLETE SCORE Discussion - SPOILERS ALLOWED!   
    The Training Course missing from the OST is an absolute tragedy. The whole cue is wonderful. 
  18. Like
    Bayesian got a reaction from crumbs in The Rise of Skywalker - COMPLETE SCORE Discussion - SPOILERS ALLOWED!   
    The Training Course missing from the OST is an absolute tragedy. The whole cue is wonderful. 
  19. Like
    Bayesian got a reaction from Tiburon in The Rise of Skywalker - COMPLETE SCORE Discussion - SPOILERS ALLOWED!   
    One more thing that made this second viewing worthwhile... I took some snaps of the end credits. Only where it mattered most. 
     



  20. Like
    Bayesian got a reaction from Tiburon in The Rise of Skywalker - COMPLETE SCORE Discussion - SPOILERS ALLOWED!   
    Frenzied, no kidding. It turns out I was misremembering the scene in that last post of mine—Rey wasn’t quite lifeless yet. But everything else I said stands. It was a moment that truly stood out in a film that was throwing everything it could get its hands on at you.
     
    I know this because I ended up seeing it again tonight. This time I succeeded in catching the cameo to end all cameos as far as I’ll ever be concerned, and that alone was worth it. My opinion of the film definitely improved after this second viewing. Yes, it has major story flaws, but if you’re willing to not let that totally blind you, you’ll realize that J.J. is actually a really gifted filmmaker. He knows where to put the camera and move it. You can follow his action (unlike, ahem, one M. Bay). The Kylo/Rey duel on the Death Star wreck was truly well done, start to finish—you really felt they were at it for real, that someone was going to lose a limb or worse. Not that J.J. is entirely faultless for the story, but imagine if any other filmmaker walked into a room and was told out of the blue that he had to make a single movie that hit all the goals for a series capper AND solved all the (supposed) problems of the preceding entry AND had to preserve the financial viability of a major entertainment IP and had to do it at breakneck pace... and he came back to you with this movie, you’d have to give him credit for his achievement.
  21. Thanks
    Bayesian reacted to Jay in The Rise of Skywalker - COMPLETE SCORE Discussion - SPOILERS ALLOWED!   
    Since every cue we can hear on the OST is longer than its version in the film, we can assume all or at least most of the completely unreleased cues are actually shorter edits of the full versions of those as well, so there's probably closer to an hour of unreleased cues we know about, plus who knows how many additional cues for scenes that were completely deleted, or earlier versions of cues for scenes we have.
     
    We need Matessino to be allowed to go through everything recorded for the sequel trilogy and construct complete releases!
     
    Also: I really wish the FYC had been longer that 50 minutes!
     
    There's lots of unreleased cues that don't feature old themes that could have been included.
  22. Like
    Bayesian got a reaction from Will in The Rise of Skywalker - COMPLETE SCORE Discussion - SPOILERS ALLOWED!   
    The Training Course missing from the OST is an absolute tragedy. The whole cue is wonderful. 
  23. Haha
    Bayesian reacted to Bespin in What’s next for JW?   
    First, the Pope must recognize that having scored the 9 SW movies, John Williams did a Miracle. Then we proceed to the canonization. After we’ll celebrate the 4th of May as the Saint-John-Williams.
  24. Like
    Bayesian reacted to Thor in What’s next for JW?   
    Exactly. He might be 87, but he's a sprightly 87-year-old (my own granddad passed at 86, in considerable worse shape the last couple of years of his life). More like 77 in 'physical age' if judging by his appearances lately. So I'm optimistic and hoping for another whole decade of new Williams music in some form or another. He'll be like Mozart, composing on his death bed and relating his notes to some Salieri (William Ross?).
     
    Let's hope he'll be like Portuguese film director Manuel de Oliveira, who directed films untill the very end, at age 106(!).
  25. Like
    Bayesian reacted to Cerebral Cortex in The Rise of Skywalker OST Album Discussion - NO FILM SPOILERS   
    I don't really know why, but I really like the Imperial March rendition in Finale. As far as I can tell, there isn't anything special about it. Sounds the same as every time I've heard it in a concert arrangement recording. There's no reason for me to really like it. Yet, for some reason, I really do. Somehow the orchestra has never sounded larger, more fierceful, or brighter playing it than when we hear it in Finale (IMO). 
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