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bollemanneke

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    bollemanneke got a reaction from His Royal Noelness in Will The Hobbit age as well as The Lord of the Rings?   
    Why are people actively reading discussions that annoy them? Also, I've never participated in any Hobbit continuity conversation. It's not because one person reads/particpates in a discussion that others can't continue it.
  3. Like
    bollemanneke reacted to Jay in Will The Hobbit age as well as The Lord of the Rings?   
    If you don't want to participate in the conversation, don't.
     
    Thanks!
  4. Like
    bollemanneke got a reaction from Bofur01 in Will The Hobbit age as well as The Lord of the Rings?   
    To answer the original thread question, I'm not even going to grace the films with an answer.
     
    I honestly wanted to love the scores and remember looking forward to them. The first trailers were so promising: the Misty Mountains music clearly told us this was going to be a hell of an adventure. And that's my biggest problem with the scores.
     
    The first score really worked for me in the film. The OST didn't. I just listened to a few AUJ tracks. The Concerning Hobbits performance feels so uninspired! Everything feels obligatory, and let's not mention the horrible sound mix. The MM theme is unbelievable and fits the entire quest perfectly. I even remember my 'company' nudging each other every time it came up in the theatre. I'm not someone who goes berserk every time Hedwig's Theme comes up in every Fantastic Beasts trailer at all, but MM just had everything: it was noble, spoke of a historic quest and felt purposeful. 
     
    And then DOS came along. Suddenly we're no longer in an adventure, we're in a horror score. What happened there? I just can't overemphasise my disappointment when I heard that score. By now, the Erebor theme was getting more and more repetitive. Laketown was very nice, but where did the Misty Mountains go? The reasons for its absence I've read so far all seem ridiculous:
    - There is no longer a company. Oh right, there are only twelve left now.
    - This score is meant to reflect uncharted territory. What, was everything in AUJ planned beforehand? For Bilbo, everything was unfamiliar from day one.
    - It only symbolises the misty mountains. So why include it in the troll fight?
    The total dismissal of that theme is unforgivable for me. Sons of Durin and Feast of Starlight are certainly enjoyable, but it feels completely out-of-place compared to the dissonant majority of the cues.
     
    BOTFA wasn't bad, but just like with DOS, I kept hoping for more. The only moment I truly imagined myself to be in Middle Earth was when the choir underscored Smaug talking to Bard. After that, we're back with more gloomy music. How exactly did this entire story turn from quest to 'we're all in it together, better make the best of this mess, guys.'? The Eagles material again sounds dull, whereas the AUJ cue felt exhilerating. The ending also feels weird. Bilbo might have changed, but we're in the Shire again, make it a little more airy! The final notes of the scores are so unsatisfying, as if they are compelling you to watch LOTR, as if the three scores are not meant to stand on their own.
     
    I'm not saying I'm 100% in love with every single LOTR track, but there were so many good moments to make up for possible boring moments. I lost interest in the middle of ROTK, but then you have For Frodo (and that's a doom moment too). The Last March of the Ents, Glamdring... you name it, there's so much enthusiasm in there, so much fervour! Compared to those cues, the Hobbit feels so... empty.
     
    So, in short, for me the Hobbit scores are a footnote that annoys me more than anything else. There aregood moments, but overall, they didn't meet my expectations at all (AUJ succeeded very well there). Maybe it's because I want these scores to be like LOTR. CRS might change my feelings. Some themes are outstanding, but they just don't feel cohesive. Rant over.
  5. Like
    bollemanneke reacted to His Royal Noelness in Will we ever get Hobbit Complete Recordings?   
    I'm at a Noel Gallagher gig tonight so I'll go so far as to say we'll Definitely Maybe get CRs!
     
    How's that for avoiding Absolutes? 
  6. Like
    bollemanneke reacted to His Royal Noelness in Will we ever get Hobbit Complete Recordings?   
    The hate is swelling in you now. Take your Jedi weapon. Use it. I am unarmed. 
  7. Like
    bollemanneke reacted to Jay in Will The Hobbit age as well as The Lord of the Rings?   
    Peter Jackson lost his mind once the film was split from 2 to 3.  The films suffered, and the scores suffered.  It's a big damn shame!
  8. Like
    bollemanneke reacted to Jay in Will The Hobbit age as well as The Lord of the Rings?   
    I never meant to imply the melodies were related at all, nor that there was a specific correlation between them.  The first thing I should point out, because I can't remember if you know this or not, is that the Misty Mountains theme was not written by Howard Shore, but by Plan 9 - the NZ group who did the diagetic music for all six Middle Earth films.  The lyrics to the song the dwarves sing in Bilbo's house is of course straight from Tolkien, but when they were going to sing it on set, it needed a melody, and it was Plan 9 that came up with that melody.  Then Howard Shore did an orchestral version of the melody for the trailer.  Then it was decided that the MM theme should be used in the score as a theme for the company, despite the fact that Shore had already written a theme for them (the one that opens "The Edge of the Wild" on the AUJ SE OST).  So MM was peppered in throughout the score, usually as a "call to action" for the company as they fought off bad guys.  
     
    Shore wrote music for a huge portions of Film 1 when there was only 2 films planned, including the entire section in The Woodland Realm, and MM would have been used there, and surely it would have been used during Flies and Spiders and The Barrell Chase as well.  I'm assuming the planned grand finale version of MM would have been some heroic moment during the barrel chase.

    We don't know exactly how Film 1 originally ended - I assume a similar version of the "Thorin accepts Bilbo now" moment that ends AUJ - or how Shore would have scored it, but I doubt House of Durin would have appeared yet, since according to the audio commentary Film 1 orignally ended as a cliffhanger with Bard pointing his arrow at the company on the side of the river.  Likewise, we don't know if there would have been a scene before the idea of the prophecy was introduced that featured MM leading into House of Durin . We'll just never know was Shore's original plans were, in all likelihood.
     
     
     
    Bilbo has his own set of themes, but whether or not Shore would have used MM for some heroic Bilbo moment after Frying Pan and before Erebor, we'll probably never know.
     
     
    All I mean is that it was decided (by whom, I have no idea) not to use MM at all in DOS or BOFA, so the barrel cue doesn't feature it.  I'm sure it would have were the scene still in Film 1 of 2, of course.
     
     
     
    Film scores are a collaboration between the composer and the director (and depending on the film, other parties as well).  Of course Shore could have his own intentions, and with a large enough amount of time and budget, he could choose to write and record his version and the director's version (which seems to be more or less what happened on AUJ).  But with DOS and BOFA, evidence seems to indicate there wasn't that many alternates recorded, so it seems Shore just did his job professionally, and used whatever themes PJ wanted him to.

    This is partial speculation of course, no one knows the intimate details of the scoring process of these films, but there's no denying the facts that Shore set up a large family of themes in AUJ that were completely abandoned in the subsequent films.  The reasons why, we may never fully know.
     
     
     
  9. Like
  10. Like
    bollemanneke reacted to mstrox in Will we ever get Hobbit Complete Recordings?   
    Yes, they will cost $1400 apiece and they will come in fine oak boxes with rubber nubs.
  11. Like
    bollemanneke reacted to Jay in Will we ever get Hobbit Complete Recordings?   
    I hope so!
     
     
    Same audio quality as what?
     
    Annotated scores... no way.
     
     
    I suppose the final revised version of every cue, except for the last minute LOTR retreads conducted by Robert Ziegler, those would be returned to the last version Shore oversaw.
     
     
    Hopefully a pattern similar to LOTR will follow here, with expanded release of each of the three scores followed by a book that references the track names of the expanded releases so we can follow along, and include a Rarities disc of earlier versions replaced by rescores.
     
    I really hope this is in the works, but we honestly have no idea (other than Doug pretty much confirming he was hired to write a book)
  12. Like
    bollemanneke reacted to mrbellamy in Will The Hobbit age as well as The Lord of the Rings?   
    I guess there could have been some sort of specific association between the two themes at one point. You hear one and then the other as an "echo" or something. Musically and dramatically communicating that they're related.
     
    As it is, since MM is never acknowledged again at all, you could argue that House of Durin comes across more like "replacement" than "evolution."
  13. Like
    bollemanneke reacted to Jay in Will The Hobbit age as well as The Lord of the Rings?   
    The theme in AUJ is used to represent the company, and their quest for Erebor.  In DOS and BOFA, the House of Durin theme accomplishes the same thing.
     
    Originally, when there was only 2 films, and film 1 ended just before the dwarves reach Lake-town, MM would have been used throughout all of Film 1, and once the Prophecy stuff is mentioned at Lake-town, House of Durin would takeover gracefully from there in Film 2 as their main theme.
     
    However, when the film got split into 3, we now only have MM being used through the Frying Pan sequence, with the trek through Beorn's, Mirkwood, and The Woodlan Realm is essentially absent of any theme for the company, until House of Durin takes over halfway through DOS at Lake-town.
     
    PJ splitting the films from 2 into 3 caused many more problems than just this one, of course.
  14. Like
    bollemanneke reacted to Jay in Will The Hobbit age as well as The Lord of the Rings?   
    Wow, nice post!  I agree with a lot of your sentiments.
     
    But, the re-tread of Shire material at the start of the AUJ OST and film is deliberate, the score certain becomes much more original once Bilbo steps out his front door!
  15. Like
    bollemanneke got a reaction from Jay in Will The Hobbit age as well as The Lord of the Rings?   
    To answer the original thread question, I'm not even going to grace the films with an answer.
     
    I honestly wanted to love the scores and remember looking forward to them. The first trailers were so promising: the Misty Mountains music clearly told us this was going to be a hell of an adventure. And that's my biggest problem with the scores.
     
    The first score really worked for me in the film. The OST didn't. I just listened to a few AUJ tracks. The Concerning Hobbits performance feels so uninspired! Everything feels obligatory, and let's not mention the horrible sound mix. The MM theme is unbelievable and fits the entire quest perfectly. I even remember my 'company' nudging each other every time it came up in the theatre. I'm not someone who goes berserk every time Hedwig's Theme comes up in every Fantastic Beasts trailer at all, but MM just had everything: it was noble, spoke of a historic quest and felt purposeful. 
     
    And then DOS came along. Suddenly we're no longer in an adventure, we're in a horror score. What happened there? I just can't overemphasise my disappointment when I heard that score. By now, the Erebor theme was getting more and more repetitive. Laketown was very nice, but where did the Misty Mountains go? The reasons for its absence I've read so far all seem ridiculous:
    - There is no longer a company. Oh right, there are only twelve left now.
    - This score is meant to reflect uncharted territory. What, was everything in AUJ planned beforehand? For Bilbo, everything was unfamiliar from day one.
    - It only symbolises the misty mountains. So why include it in the troll fight?
    The total dismissal of that theme is unforgivable for me. Sons of Durin and Feast of Starlight are certainly enjoyable, but it feels completely out-of-place compared to the dissonant majority of the cues.
     
    BOTFA wasn't bad, but just like with DOS, I kept hoping for more. The only moment I truly imagined myself to be in Middle Earth was when the choir underscored Smaug talking to Bard. After that, we're back with more gloomy music. How exactly did this entire story turn from quest to 'we're all in it together, better make the best of this mess, guys.'? The Eagles material again sounds dull, whereas the AUJ cue felt exhilerating. The ending also feels weird. Bilbo might have changed, but we're in the Shire again, make it a little more airy! The final notes of the scores are so unsatisfying, as if they are compelling you to watch LOTR, as if the three scores are not meant to stand on their own.
     
    I'm not saying I'm 100% in love with every single LOTR track, but there were so many good moments to make up for possible boring moments. I lost interest in the middle of ROTK, but then you have For Frodo (and that's a doom moment too). The Last March of the Ents, Glamdring... you name it, there's so much enthusiasm in there, so much fervour! Compared to those cues, the Hobbit feels so... empty.
     
    So, in short, for me the Hobbit scores are a footnote that annoys me more than anything else. There aregood moments, but overall, they didn't meet my expectations at all (AUJ succeeded very well there). Maybe it's because I want these scores to be like LOTR. CRS might change my feelings. Some themes are outstanding, but they just don't feel cohesive. Rant over.
  16. Like
    bollemanneke got a reaction from Jay in What Is The Last Film You Watched? (Older Films)   
    Allow me to elaborate. First, Stefancos, do you like talking to yourself? Can I be the one who brings up your post count this time?  
     
    The only Goldsmith music I know except for Total Recall is his Basic Instinct main theme, which was absolutely fantastic, and his Star Trek main theme which is good.
     
    This is going to sound rdiculous, but I have only been watching films for six years. I watch films using audio description (a commentary for blind/visually impaired people that explains what happens on screen). The UK and, to a lesser extent, the US, have been describing dozens and dozens of films for a very long time. However, I'm living in a country where people commonly think blind people don't care about films, and more importantly, are too dmub to understand and speak English, go to university etc. I only discovered AD by chance six years ago a new world opened up to me. Before that, I only watched films I had read the novels of (HP, LOTR etc). Now I can just look at the TV guide and download series/films with AD that look interesting to me, free of charge. Since then, I've been trying to fill the huge holes in my culture.
     
    Maybe the Belgian TV guides hate Goldsmith, or maybe I don't like any films he's scored. I dunno, but I haven't got a personal grudge against him. I mainly go for (romantic) drama/fantasy, maybe that's got something to do with it. Most action film plots don't appeal to me, but Total Recall did.
     
  17. Like
    bollemanneke reacted to Jay in What Is The Last Film You Watched? (Older Films)   
    Nah, the ending is perfect, because its ambiguous, and the view can believe his own interpretation!
  18. Like
    bollemanneke reacted to Jay in Question about the Complete Recordings DVDs   
    When he started the thread, he didn't know they were out of print.  See the last line edit of the main post where he realizes that.
     
     
    Anyways, Doug Adams tweeted that he worked on reissues in 2015, so perhaps now that the Blu Ray sets have been announced, a CR reissue statement is forthcoming
  19. Like
    bollemanneke got a reaction from Omen II in Harry Potter - Live to Projection Concerts   
    Finally! UK concerts of HP1 in May!
     
    http://www.snitchseeker.com/harry-potter-news/harry-potter-film-concert-series-and-live-orchestra-coming-to-7-uk-cities-in-may-2017-a-105059/
     
  20. Like
    bollemanneke reacted to Gruesome Son of a Bitch in Moral and Legal Concerns Regarding The Trading of Sheet Music and Recorded Music   
    John Williams lounges around in a mansion in pants and a turtleneck even though it's disgustingly hot and muggy, obviously wasting shitloads of electricity to run the air conditioning and only occasionally working on a score. The least he can do is surrender the goddamn recording sessions and sheet music to us schmucks.
  21. Like
    bollemanneke reacted to Jay in What Is The Last Film You Watched? (Older Films)   
    Not that I know of.
     
     
    There's no freaking way that's true. Shore oversaw the OST and made it exactly how he wanted. The CR is essentially an isolated score with some bars trimmed and some unused music restored.
  22. Like
    bollemanneke reacted to Jay in What Is The Last Film You Watched? (Older Films)   
    Peter Jackson chose to lower the volume of a lot of choir parts in the first half of the film.  The Complete Recordings set unfortunately carries over this mixing decision; Luckily the original OST CD has all the lowered choir back at full volume and sounds great
  23. Like
    bollemanneke reacted to Sweeping Strings in What Is The Last Film You Watched? (Older Films)   
    If you're finding 'Bond and the girl in each other's arms' already an 'unoriginal' ending only 4 films into the series, you might wanna brace yourself ... they only stop ending like that with Craig. 
  24. Like
    bollemanneke reacted to Alex in Fantastic Beasts And Where To Find Them 5-film series   
    At the end of the day, people will go and see the film anyway regardless of who the director is simply because it's Harry Potter
  25. Like
    bollemanneke got a reaction from Once in Fantastic Beasts And Where To Find Them 5-film series   
    HP5 is needlessly the shortest one, not HP3.
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