Loert

it hash shuperficial shimilaritiesh, you can tell by the croshection

Trevor Horn? Love to hear that!

https://www.spitfireaudio.com/jupiter-by-trevor-horn#walkthrough

I thought "Thatsh" was an acronym for something, lol

I thought "Thatsh" was an acronym for something, lol

i'm guessing scherzo for motorcycle and orchestra?

https://youtu.be/F74vEpGbDk4&t=37s
 
My parents are watching A Perfect Murder and this was playing while I walked by. Very kickass in a Goldsmith kind of way with the quartal harmony and—if I'm not mistaken—mixed meter.

2:02- 2:16
 
I love how the hissing effect blends with the orchestra. Sounds like being attacked by high-pressured steam.
 

That's a really good point you made.  To analyze harmony, you have to include melody otherwise you miss context of what's happening.  How it goes from chord to chord does impact how you think of this contextually.  Music exists in a multi-planal existence...it is multidimensional like time, space, gravity, mass, energy, etc.  To understand melody, you need to keep harmony, melody, rhythm, and structure all in mind.  To understand what is happening harmonically, you need to observe melody and rhythm too.  Great point, Loert! 

I think this is one of those instances where "labelling" the melody line with chord symbols based on the bass line may obscure what's happening.
 
I think Williams knew that he wanted a climactic, "Americana" instance of the last three notes of the Mission Theme, and he decided that there was going to be some kind of extended harmony involved. And I think all that Williams did was move vertically downwards from the melody line, building up the harmony that way.
 
For example, for the first note, we could harmonize it like Bbmaj7 with the A at the top...because we like maj7s, and it keeps us in the right key (as opposed to, say, Dmaj7, with the A on top, which would take us out of the key).
 
But Bbmaj7 doesn't sound rich enough. So we can keep going down, first to G (Gm9), then Eb (Ebmaj#11). We could still have gone down to C (Cm13), but JW didn't.
 
The next note might have been built downwards the same way. JW decided to stop at Ab this time, thus giving us a 13th chord, "richer" than the preceding 11th. So we get a buildup in harmonic richness before arriving at the tonic.
 
But here's the thing with the final chord: we could have gone down to F, in which case the bass would in fact be the dominant tone. And if you add the extra F at the bottom, it really doesn't sound that different from the final result (far less noticeable than if you had changed the top note, for instance). So, in fact, it is a kind of v -> I cadence, only you can say that JW left out the bass note, thus replacing the v with a chord of somewhat air-ier, more ambiguous quality.
 
Anyway, this is how I would think about that passage in particular. Using chord symbols makes the most sense IMO when you have a meaningful bass line, but in this particular case I would argue that there is no "bass line" as such.

I think this is one of those instances where "labelling" the melody line with chord symbols based on the bass line may obscure what's happening.
 
I think Williams knew that he wanted a climactic, "Americana" instance of the last three notes of the Mission Theme, and he decided that there was going to be some kind of extended harmony involved. And I think all that Williams did was move vertically downwards from the melody line, building up the harmony that way.
 
For example, for the first note, we could harmonize it like Bbmaj7 with the A at the top...because we like maj7s, and it keeps us in the right key (as opposed to, say, Dmaj7, with the A on top, which would take us out of the key).
 
But Bbmaj7 doesn't sound rich enough. So we can keep going down, first to G (Gm9), then Eb (Ebmaj#11). We could still have gone down to C (Cm13), but JW didn't.
 
The next note might have been built downwards the same way. JW decided to stop at Ab this time, thus giving us a 13th chord, "richer" than the preceding 11th. So we get a buildup in harmonic richness before arriving at the tonic.
 
But here's the thing with the final chord: we could have gone down to F, in which case the bass would in fact be the dominant tone. And if you add the extra F at the bottom, it really doesn't sound that different from the final result (far less noticeable than if you had changed the top note, for instance). So, in fact, it is a kind of v -> I cadence, only you can say that JW left out the bass note, thus replacing the v with a chord of somewhat air-ier, more ambiguous quality.
 
Anyway, this is how I would think about that passage in particular. Using chord symbols makes the most sense IMO when you have a meaningful bass line, but in this particular case I would argue that there is no "bass line" as such.

I think this is one of those instances where "labelling" the melody line with chord symbols based on the bass line may obscure what's happening.
 
I think Williams knew that he wanted a climactic, "Americana" instance of the last three notes of the Mission Theme, and he decided that there was going to be some kind of extended harmony involved. And I think all that Williams did was move vertically downwards from the melody line, building up the harmony that way.
 
For example, for the first note, we could harmonize it like Bbmaj7 with the A at the top...because we like maj7s, and it keeps us in the right key (as opposed to, say, Dmaj7, with the A on top, which would take us out of the key).
 
But Bbmaj7 doesn't sound rich enough. So we can keep going down, first to G (Gm9), then Eb (Ebmaj#11). We could still have gone down to C (Cm13), but JW didn't.
 
The next note might have been built downwards the same way. JW decided to stop at Ab this time, thus giving us a 13th chord, "richer" than the preceding 11th. So we get a buildup in harmonic richness before arriving at the tonic.
 
But here's the thing with the final chord: we could have gone down to F, in which case the bass would in fact be the dominant tone. And if you add the extra F at the bottom, it really doesn't sound that different from the final result (far less noticeable than if you had changed the top note, for instance). So, in fact, it is a kind of v -> I cadence, only you can say that JW left out the bass note, thus replacing the v with a chord of somewhat air-ier, more ambiguous quality.
 
Anyway, this is how I would think about that passage in particular. Using chord symbols makes the most sense IMO when you have a meaningful bass line, but in this particular case I would argue that there is no "bass line" as such.

"General Loert, you're younger than I expected"

I think this is one of those instances where "labelling" the melody line with chord symbols based on the bass line may obscure what's happening.
 
I think Williams knew that he wanted a climactic, "Americana" instance of the last three notes of the Mission Theme, and he decided that there was going to be some kind of extended harmony involved. And I think all that Williams did was move vertically downwards from the melody line, building up the harmony that way.
 
For example, for the first note, we could harmonize it like Bbmaj7 with the A at the top...because we like maj7s, and it keeps us in the right key (as opposed to, say, Dmaj7, with the A on top, which would take us out of the key).
 
But Bbmaj7 doesn't sound rich enough. So we can keep going down, first to G (Gm9), then Eb (Ebmaj#11). We could still have gone down to C (Cm13), but JW didn't.
 
The next note might have been built downwards the same way. JW decided to stop at Ab this time, thus giving us a 13th chord, "richer" than the preceding 11th. So we get a buildup in harmonic richness before arriving at the tonic.
 
But here's the thing with the final chord: we could have gone down to F, in which case the bass would in fact be the dominant tone. And if you add the extra F at the bottom, it really doesn't sound that different from the final result (far less noticeable than if you had changed the top note, for instance). So, in fact, it is a kind of v -> I cadence, only you can say that JW left out the bass note, thus replacing the v with a chord of somewhat air-ier, more ambiguous quality.
 
Anyway, this is how I would think about that passage in particular. Using chord symbols makes the most sense IMO when you have a meaningful bass line, but in this particular case I would argue that there is no "bass line" as such.

needs more timpani

It wouldn't surprise me if when you opened the book it was just that story typed out a gazillion times (kind of like this:)

Here's me playing my own arrangement of Helena's Theme for piano:
 
 
Note: if you have perfect pitch, or an excellent musical memory, then this arrangement may drive you crazy as I mix and match elements from the standard version and the violin version (including some key changes). Though hopefully the final result is coherent enough.

Here's me playing my own arrangement of Helena's Theme for piano:
 
 
Note: if you have perfect pitch, or an excellent musical memory, then this arrangement may drive you crazy as I mix and match elements from the standard version and the violin version (including some key changes). Though hopefully the final result is coherent enough.

Here's me playing my own arrangement of Helena's Theme for piano:
 
 
Note: if you have perfect pitch, or an excellent musical memory, then this arrangement may drive you crazy as I mix and match elements from the standard version and the violin version (including some key changes). Though hopefully the final result is coherent enough.

Here's me playing my own arrangement of Helena's Theme for piano:
 
 
Note: if you have perfect pitch, or an excellent musical memory, then this arrangement may drive you crazy as I mix and match elements from the standard version and the violin version (including some key changes). Though hopefully the final result is coherent enough.

And I'm most worried about him seeing the "DID JOHN WILLIAMS COMPOSE THE IJ DIAL OF DESTINY TRAILER MUSIC?" thread...

It wouldn't surprise me if when you opened the book it was just that story typed out a gazillion times (kind of like this:)

It wouldn't surprise me if when you opened the book it was just that story typed out a gazillion times (kind of like this:)