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John Williams and the Music of Star Wars – A Further Step Into a Larger Musical World
An exploration of John Williams's music for the popular film series, with a particular focus on the latest instalment, The Last Jedi, by Maurizio Caschetto
 
An engaging, thoughtful and enlightening read. Enjoy!
 
http://www.jwfan.com/?p=10681

I went to see Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets this evening at the Royal Albert Hall, the first of five performances over the weekend.  It was fantastic!  The BBC Concert Orchestra conducted by Justin Freer was on excellent form, played the entire end credits music and was also accompanied by the English Chamber Choir.
 
I had only seen the film once before and that was long enough ago that I did not remember much of it, so it was nice to be able to enjoy it and reacquaint myself with the music.  I had forgotten what a lovely theme Fawkes the Phoenix is, I really must play it more often.
 
Here is a photo I took at the end, with the mostly female choir top right behind the trumpets and trombones.
 

Nope that is not right.

The OST track titled "Star Wars (Main Theme)" is 1M1 Main Title segued to a part of 1M2 The Imperial Probe segued to most of 6M3 This Is Not A Cave
 
The OST track titled "City in the Clouds" is 6M2 Yoda’s Teaching segued to 8M2 City In The Clouds
 
-
 
The 1993 anthology track titled "Main Title / The Imperial Probe (Extended Version)" is a new edit containing 1M1 Main Title and then most of 1M2 The Imperial Probe
 
The 1993 anthology track titled "City in the Clouds" is once again 6M2 Yoda’s Teaching segued to 8M2 City In The Clouds (but a different edit and mix)
 
6M3 This Is Not A Cave does not appear anywhere on the 1993 anthology.
 
~
 
The 1997 2CD set track titled "Main Title / The Ice Planet Hoth" is 1M1 Main Title and finally for the first time anywhere all of 1M2 The Imperial Probe
 
The 1997 2CD set track titled "Jedi Master Revealed / Mynock Cave" is 6M2 Yoda’s Teaching and then for the first time anywhere all of 6M3 This Is Not A Cave
 
The 1997 2CD set track titled "Imperial Starfleet Deployed / City In The Clouds" is for the first time anywhere 7M4/8M1 Vadar’s Command and then 8M2 City In The Clouds

I like working on isolated score videos!
 
See the Williams edition of the thread here!
 
http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/28480-disco-stus-isolated-score-videos-john-williams-edition/
 
But hey, I also like film composers who are not John Williams!
 
This thread is for those people.
 
Back to the Future Part III (Alan Silvestri)
 
 
 
Star Trek III: The Search for Spock (James Horner)
 
 
 
Willow
 

Mm. My problem with the way you're approaching this is that I'm not feeling much room for nuance. Hope you'll clarify if I'm misinterpreting but what I'm getting from you is that John Williams either completely 100% intends these references with specific authorial intent or the similarity would never occur to him at all?
 
I think the way people create and remember and think about things is too messy for that and I think these scores end up the way they do for plenty of odd reasons. The TPM thing, I doubt there's anything special behind that but it doesn't mean Williams didn't notice the similarity at some point while he was writing or recording and have a chuckle.
 
And anyway, "The Spark" example is different to me because it carries much more significant dramatic weight and so I think it's completely possible that he gave it more careful consideration than the TPM example. I don't think it's a stretch at all that he might have found it appropriate to hint at the theme without being too overt, just fucking with the intervals and rhythm to craft a new piece because quoting Imperial March verbatim would be distracting. I mean, that fits my perception of John Williams as a tasteful artist concerned with details. I also allowed for the possibility that it was just a nice coincidence and you ignored that.
 
It just seems like you're characterizing Williams as blissfully unaware of anything in these scores that isn't bleeding obvious and literal and I'm saying that when it comes to the guy who is actually writing the music and scrutinizing and living with it for months, I think it's likely that he would catch on to these things eventually and still carry on, because it fits well or doesn't really matter.

Call it whatever you like - you're speculating as much as the other guys.

Yeah, I agree. I don't think this stuff just flies past him. Whatever time went into looking at that scene, writing the music for that little moment, conducting/recording it, I just can't believe that John Williams himself wouldn't notice that it sounds a bit like Battle of the Heroes. Most of us heard it on the first listen. It doesn't require careful observation. Like you said, I doubt there's deep meaning behind it. Maybe it was something that accidentally came out while he was sketching or improvising and he kept it for fun because it's Star Wars and Star Wars is fun. Maybe it was in the temp and one of Rian Johnson's personal favorites so he left it in as a surprise for his director, and the fanboys can make a thread if they're upset. But he's gotta be aware.
 
I'm sure there's a fairly benign reason why "Talk of Podracing" randomly shows up in Force Awakens too, by the way. Again, maybe that was in the temp and he and JJ looked at each other and went "That's kinda nice!" Once I got past that initial anxiety of "WHY?!?!?!" it really is just a small and sweet way to blend it in with the prequels, even if it's for no particular reason.
 
As for "The Spark" ostinato sounding like "Imperial March"...I don't think that's coincidence. I just can't see Williams going "Oops" if we pointed that out. Like we're so clever.
 
John Williams has conducted "The Imperial March" hundreds of times in concert since he wrote it. He's studied, rehearsed, performed it with every great orchestra in America. He's heard it played everywhere, unexpectedly. Over and over and over and over and over. Every year. For decades. He's incorporated it subtly and overtly into seven film scores. He is 86 and by all accounts -- judging by how articulate he is in interviews, comments from people who are still working with him, and the work itself -- he's sharp as a tack. That dude is not missing anything. Come on. He knows what it sounds like.
 
Darth Vader is Anakin Skywalker. Williams spent a lot of time with both characters, thinking about their stories, writing music to express them and ultimately tie them together effectively and intelligently. The march is the menacing theme for the Skywalker patriarch and at the end of Last Jedi, his son and grandson are ready to face off with his daughter watching? That's a big legacy moment. Ben Solo rules the First Order and Luke Skywalker himself is a darker figure than we have seen him before and this is him at the height of his powers. He's our good guy hero but not so innocent anymore. He's dangerous, mysterious, threatening. Dad's hanging around.
 
I think the "Jedi Steps" reveal of Luke is harmonically related to "Imperial March" for similar reasons, and the trumpet triplets evoking the end of the concert piece when Kylo Ren first appears in Force Awakens aren't coincidence either. I don't think this stuff is always about overt melodic references with Williams. I think he enjoys going " same color, different brush" or vice versa. There are pretty good reasons why a lot of Kylo Ren's stuff sounds like various bits of ROTS underscore too. Yeah, there's the temp, but I think he followed it when it made sense to him. It's a simple story and these connections are pretty clean as far as I'm concerned. John Williams has proven far too often that he doesn't miss a beat. It's why his scores are so good. He's too smart for this crap.

It would be a coincidence if it appeared in a non-SW score.  The theme is part of the concert suite for ROTS.  I would even guess the scene was tempted with the damn thing.  Williams did not just stumble into the same 9 nine note melody.  I am not saying he is trying to connect the theme to that moment for narrative reasons, but I guarantee he knew it was his own theme from ROTS when he put it in TLJ. 

When the sequel trilogy was first announced, that was the theme I had most wanted reprised from the OT. The theme itself has always been one of the more emotionally-driven themes from Star Wars for me, but then to have it played within the scene under the now unfortunate context of it being the last scene we'll get between Fisher and Hamill makes it that much more so. 

The second half, as has already been summed up here more concisely than I ever can be, is absolutely fantastic. The complete silence in the theater as we see Luke step out to that slow build of the cue, with the captivation and engrossment from the audience so palpable in the air, was hands down the biggest highlight of my moviegoing experiences last year. I really like how this trilogy has seen almost a blending of the ways Williams wrote themes for the prequel and original trilogies, with most of the thematic material being character-based as was seen with the OT but still getting great thematic statements for the big event moments within the film like we saw a lot with the PT (seeing Luke at the end of TFA, Luke embracing the legend as he steps out to face Kylo in TLJ, etc). 

It's also just great fun to have, like we do with that last half of the cue, something from Williams that I can't point to and say that it sounds like something he previously wrote. You just hear it and wonder "woah, where did that come from?"  

Beautifully summed up. The entire cue is utter perfection. It feels like the most polished, most refined and best performed cue in the entire score. Probably of any score he's written in over a decade. Something just "clicks" with this piece, in a perfect combination of direction, visuals and music, yet it also stands alone as an incredible piece outside the film itself (like all great music does).

All of it's great, from the funereal, split-third brass choir underscoring Leia's quiet resignation; to the diaphanous, chromatic passage as Luke emerges from the shadows; to the tender medley of Ben & Luke & Leia & Hans' themes for the reunion; and finally that insistent, Adams-ian scale-up as Luke walks out to face the dragon.

It fits the movie perfectly and is a great listen full of familiar and new tunes.
Mysterious opening
Luke and Leia
Han Solo and the Princess (as Luke gives Leia the dice)
and then that ending I think we all love as Luke steps out onto the battlefield.

As both a combination of film and image and a standalone cue, it's a knock out (if Luke could kill, he probably will...).
 
 
I can't be the only one who sees it as a natural development of the Jedi Steps theme (which is in itself a sly evocation of Vader's theme). It's as if Williams is observing that in his final act of mastery, Luke has now fully integrated his own shadow with his self into a well-functioning whole, though a process of individuation. This process has been mediated by his soul-image or anima, in the form of Yoda (and to some extent Rey), the spiritual middle-man between his conscious and unconscious. His tainted family history (Vader) and youthful rebellion has been reconciled with his noble Jedi ideals. The dark now at one with the light.
 
That's my bit of cod Jung for the day.

It's better than bad! It's good!

As far as bringing back an older theme in this score...man, did Williams take the ball, chew it out, then pimp slap it out of the park. The reprise of Luke and Leia is so tender, yet also carries this certain tension that smacks me right in the heart.
 
The ostinato thing feels very strange for John Williams to do in a Star Wars movie, but I think it works.

I love it, especially the little hint of Darth Vader's theme that never quiiiiiite develops.

I think it's great!

It's great!

The Harry Potter Children's Suite is essentially Williams' take on a kind of "young person's guide to the orchestra".
 
It is as masterful as it is colorful, and is about as far removed from a "sketch" as you can get. On the contrary, it represents ways of developing the musical material even further, all the while exploring the orchestra in delightful detail. 

I debated whether I should start a new thread for this, figured it was alright in the end:
 
 

Just tried to listen to the Spotify version on my way home. Couldn't get through track 1. The distortion during the Ringwraith music is horrible

I'm with you to some extent.  My overall response to KOTCS was disappointment, but that's mainly to do with my love for the "trilogy" and how expectations that high are bound to fall.  I found a lot of stuff to still enjoy in it.  The entire first sequence (up to and INCLUDING the nuke/fridge moment, sorry all) was the kind of thing I wanted out of an Indy movie set in that time period, to be honest.  I enjoyed the Indy/Mutt and Marian stuff.  I still haven't given it a second watch, but on the Prequel Disappointment Scale, to me it was not the disaster that the SW prequels were, but probably more on par with the mediocrity of The Hobbit movies.

What I’m looking forward to most of all with Indy 5 (apart from the score) is the fun of an adventure where things happen in a way that’s plausible in the real world. When Iron Man gets slammed into the ground, Stark doesn’t black out or break any bones. Nothing in his suit ever really breaks. When office buildings come crashing down, the camera is always just following five or six random people (always featuring the Attractive White Female) scrambling to safety; every time the next installment comes out, the heroes’ tech is bigger and better looking, but what for? Nothing is ever at stake and nothing ever seems to change by the time you’re done watching it 165 minutes later. At least indy 4 showed you something new, or at least strung together a series of setpieces that added up to something unique. And, if spielberg gets it right, we’ll get to appreciate how despairingly rare that is a couple summers from now.