Will

I'm thinking that perhaps the opening scene music we heard in the 60 Minutes clip was written for an opening with Luke's hand, which I think would be followed by the village attack scene in that version of the film.

Interesting! I hadn't noticed that. I just went back and listened to the FYC (and thus film) version of "Torn Apart," and indeed we do hear a rather large chunk of the "dramatic Force theme" cue right before the saber ignition moment (not the Force theme itself, but the quieter stuff preceding it). In case you find it interesting, on July 29, 2015, here's what Making Star Wars was reporting happened during the parade grounds/Starkiller firing sequence (http://makingstarwars.net/2015/07/star-wars-the-force-awakens-and-the-happenings-at-kanatas-castle-part-1/): So this may have been closer to what Williams was scoring originally. Just some food for thought when debating what scenes certain cues were intended for.

Pretty sure all Film Concerts Live productions (Raiders is one of those) contain an intermission. Don't know about other live-to-projection concerts. Also, I'll be going to see a performance of this by the Chicago Symphony in early July. It will be my second time seeing this type of concert, after Home Alone in December, which was terrific, although I was sitting in the very last row of the gallery (I got the tickets last minute). This time I'll be near the front of the gallery. Thanks for posting, this is super interesting! When I went to see Home Alone live to picture in December in Chicago, I brought binoculars and would often focus in on the conductor (Richard Kaufman) and his screen. But I didn't always understand what I was seeing; this video really helped with that.

I've never heard of it before. Me neither, I was very surprised when I read that sentence of the article! I don't understand how that would have worked, though. Was the final chase shot entirely after test screenings? The chase is such a major and iconic scene, but I don't see how it could have been in the early cut if ET died in the house. Well, I like the way they decided to end it because it made for some great directing and scoring! What was the real alternate ending?

Still no Chicago? Potter 1 will be the most interesting of all the Williams live-to-projection concerts announced so far, IMO.

By the way, Pablo Hidalgo, Lucasfilm Creative Executive, has hinted on Twitter that the reshoot direction came from Lucasfilm, and not higher up at Disney, and that things aren't as bad as some are making them seem. Don't have any specific tweets at the moment, though, sorry. Well, MSW says they don't even know if any of those cameos will actually make it into the film! Some/all could have been just early ideas.

HIDDEN TEXT CONTAINS DETAILS ON POSSIBLE CHARACTER CAMEOS AND SOME OTHER PLOT SPOILERS (I THINK THEY'RE FAIRLY MINOR, BUT USE YOUR BEST JUDGEMENT WHEN DECIDING WHETHER TO READ)

"Main Title" from Star Trek: The Motion Picture (Jerry Goldsmith)

Making Star Wars has been posting some details on the reshoots: http://makingstarwars.net/2016/05/disney-execs-unhappy-with-rogue-one-a-star-wars-story-so-far/ http://makingstarwars.net/2016/05/reshoots-will-not-affect-rogue-one-a-star-wars-story-release-date/ http://makingstarwars.net/2016/06/how-extensive-will-the-rogue-one-reshoots-be/ http://makingstarwars.net/2016/06/scott-z-burns-wrote-a-draft-of-rogue-one-a-star-wars-story/ Some of this stuff is really interesting. UPDATE: SPOILER STATING THAT A CERTAIN CHARACTER WILL LIKELY APPEAR IN THE FILM INSIDE HIDDEN TEXT EDIT: Changed possible spoilers into hidden text. Not huge spoilers, but after posting I realized I'd better be cautious!

Isn't there just one theme representing both BB-8 and the map? If you believe there are two, can you give time stamps so I can listen to what you are referring to?

Fennel Ka ripped that music (and the yell of "Ben!") from a documentary (Secrets of the Force Awakens). That music does play over the Han's Death scene in the documentary, but we can't be sure that some/all of that music was intended for that scene in the film. The documentary editors could have just done some clever editing. It's being debated, as you may have seen, whether the building music is building to Han and Kylo's confrontation or building to the firing of Starkiller Base on the Hosnian system. We need the sheet music/recording sessions! You might be right! I remember that report got me so excited for this score. Naturally, it seems as if the cue teased may have been unreleased, at least until that documentary. There's debate about whether this Force theme climax was intended for the firing of the Starkiller on the Hosnian system, or whether it was to play over Ren killing Han.

Woah, I thought they might be inversions but I wasn't sure, that's awesome! You're referring to the theme heard on horns over militaristic ostinato in the opening sequence when you say "the one," right? Because not only does that relate to Snoke, I think it might be his theme!

Nice work! There's something I should point out: the music here ... https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9NXlLWWQxRVQ0WGs/view ... may well be all one cue, but it could also be two cues (with the break between the two occurring when Han yells "Ben!") -- meaning that the music heard in that Drive file might not all be intended for the same scene, although it certainly could be. @Gistech There's another thing I forgot to mention in my initial post on the matter. The Drive file I linked to in the preceding paragraph of this post (the same file in my initial post) actually edits out some music in the portion from the beginning to Han's yell. The end of Hux's speech goes with no music in Manikin's music-to-picture attempt. But interestingly, if the missing music is restored (which Fennel Ka tried to do here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9MWZLV1p2anN0RVE/view), then the timing of the music lines up more or less exactly to the picture from the beginning of the scene until the end of Hux's speech. I've been imagining the dramatic building music stopping and then Hux yelling "Fire!" It really seems like it would work well. In general, though, I kinda think the "building" music with the possible First Order theme doesn't work as well with the scene as silence, which is what we got in the final film. However, it's possible that back in early June the film was supposed to cut back and forth from Hux's speech to the First Order approaching Takodana to attack, in which case the building music would fit really well with the scene, I think. You mean in "The Bombing Run" opening? Nice, I hadn't made that connection! Still, though, since the base is owned by the First Order, it's hard to be sure which Williams is trying to represent. I wonder what's on screen at that exact moment we hear the theme in that cue.

Rey's theme sounds enough like Anakin's for a source to describe it that way, IMO. And how do we know there's no jazzy big band number? Maybe it's unused and unheard thus far. In regards to the "beautiful sustained voice over melody" piece described, that could be an unused version of "The Starkiller," since MSW says it's tied to the snow planet. You may actually be right. Here's what I had thought before you brought up that idea: I thought there indeed was a Starkiller Base theme. But I didn't think it was the one used in the unknown cue possibly intended for the parade grounds sequence. Instead, I thought the Starkiller Base theme was the one heard several times in the third act as the heroes traverse the planet. One example is in the cue "Group Enters Base," where it is heard a few times: However, I did just realize that one of the appearances of the four-note TFA theme being debated is in the cue "Precinct 47," near the beginning. That cue plays over the discussion in Resistance headquarters about how to attack Starkiller Base. (I don't know exactly what's on screen when the theme plays). Obviously, though, that usage of the theme could also indicate that it's the First Order theme because the First Order runs Starkiller Base, it doesn't necessarily mean it's the Starkiller Base theme. What makes me still think the four-note theme in question is for the First Order in general is that it plays when Finn and Poe look up at the TIE fighter when they are about to enter it to escape.

With the help of Fennel Ka, I think I have unlocked one of the mysteries of this score!!! I could barely contain my excitement when I realized this because it was something that had been bothering me for a while. Basically, the First Order has a theme -- but it's not the one that Marcus was calling their theme! I'll explain this (it will get a little long but bear with me). Back last summer (early June), I read a Making Star Wars report (http://makingstarwars.net/2015/06/details-on-a-few-unique-tracks-from-star-wars-the-force-awakens-score/) that said the following: This was very early in the sessions -- in fact, I believe only one or two had occurred when this article was written. So keep in mind that it's certainly possible for the score to change a lot between then and the film's release. Also keep in mind that Making Star Wars has proven to be an extremely reliable source for Star Wars production news. Now, when the TFA score was released, I wondered: What was this "First Order March"? We couldn't look to the Parade Grounds sequence (Hux's booming speech), because if there was ever music there, it didn't make it into the final film. And while there were multiple villain themes, none of them ever sounded like a march. For this reason and others I will mention later, I began to think this report wasn't accurate. Then we started to hear unused music in documentaries. One particular bit ripped by Fennel Ka (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9NXlLWWQxRVQ0WGs/view?pref=2&pli=1) sounded like a march in the beginning portion. And that part contained a four-note musical idea heard other times in the score. I didn't make the connection then. But in Fennel Ka's edit, he has the music from the beginning of the above Google Drive file to the moment it stops for Han to yell as the cue, "The Last Day of the Republic." And it suddenly clicked for me, as I realized that this music was almost certainly indented for that scene, the Parade Grounds scene. That four-note idea is the First Order theme. The cue "The Last Day of the Republic" would have played over the Parade Grounds sequence. As far as I know that's the only time it appears in march form, but it appears other times in other forms. The First Order theme can be heard at :20-:27 of "Preparing For Assault" (also known as "Precinct 47" or "The Plan") and :17-:20, :24-:27, and :50-:53 of the "BIG unknown Unused Cue/Alternate," (as posted in the Google Drive link above) as well as during the moment the First Order ships return to the Star Destroyer after the Attack on the Jakku Village (don't have the time stamp at the moment). It can also be heard when Finn and Poe are about to enter the TIE fighter to escape the Star Destroyer (that's a more subtle performance, I can give time stamp tomorrow if you want). The theme Marcus spotted that he thought was the First Order theme (heard on horns over string ostinato as transports zoom toward screen in opening sequence) is probably actually Snoke's theme, which makes sense given that the majority of its appearances are in Snoke's scenes, I believe. With what I have discovered to be the actual First Order theme, it's possible it was in the film more early on and that's why MSW said it was the "thing" being recorded. Maybe they thought it was better to make Ren's primary theme the centerpiece villain theme. Also, many had discounted the MSW's report because of the apparent absence in the score of much of what it described, but I think what I figured out makes it possible that some of the other things described are just in alternates we haven't heard yet (like the jazzy big band piece and operatic cantilena). I may have forgotten something because it's late and I'm tired, if you have any questions please ask.

Well, I have started my complete score analysis. I hope to be done by early July, but we'll see. It's a massive project; who knows if I'll even finish, if I don't I'll just post what I have. But I'll try! Don't expect any groundbreaking revelations about the score; a lot of what I'm doing is compiling others' observations. My goal is for people new to the TFA score to have one definitive place to read about it rather than having to comb through various threads on the forums.

Now, this isn't necessarily what I'd call plagiarism -- but there's a definite similarity between passages of these two Williams cues. I don't mean this in a negative way at all -- both are fantastic, A+ pieces of music. I see similarities such as these as fascinating, displaying how Williams develops as a composer over time, expands on previous ideas, etc. ^Hammond's Proposition: 0:26-0:47 Diagon Alley: Beginning-0:13 (not the OST version; the recording sessions version)(you can find this on YouTube, but it's from leaked recording sessions so I deleted the embed -- I thought maybe posting a link to leaked stuff wasn't a good idea) Pretty cool how you can hear the beginning few notes of Hedwig's Theme in Jurassic Park! And I don't think this is the only Williams theme that has been fully or partially included in some previous score, and then accidentally becomes an actual theme in a later score -- the "call" of Rey's theme was in ROTS, I think, and there are probably more examples.

Well, we now have confirmation from a reliable source about the re-shoots: http://deadline.com/2016/05/star-wars-rogue-one-re-shoots-no-test-screening-release-date-1201765101/

Oh goodness. Hard to know whether this is true, though. Weren't there rumors that this film already had a writer come in to "fix" the script because LFL didn't think it was good enough?

Wow, this is terrific! Too bad the other two movements of his football suite are only available to listen to in their band recordings (not full orchestra).

Yep, that's what I figured out recently. See my above post, which I have quoted here:

It's nothing to concern yourself with. I promise you it has absolutely nothing to do with Bloodboal; it's unrelated.

Jason, this is totally unrelated to this thread, but did you get my DM?

Funny, I was just wondering this myself!